Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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Red Rick said:
Get dropped in Pyrenees, Vosgues, lose time in ITT then conveniently massacre everything exactly on the stages you need to. It checks many boxes quite fine.
Personally I'm more worried by riders who dominate in the Pyrénées, the Vosges and the Alps. They're three very different types of climbs.

As for a Colombian not putting in a good time trial - damn sure that's a reason to suspect something dodge is going on, damn sure.
 
I don't think Bernal's TDF performance raises the same kind of red flags for suspicion that have been hoisted for certain other riders in recent years. His progression looks like what could happen with an elite generational-level talent, even though he is just 22. His time-trial was good but not great in this year's Tour. He got comparatively stronger in week 3 but showed consistent climbing ability earlier in the Pyrenees. The Alps suit him. He is ending the Tour as the best climber. His performances have been noteworthy but not alien. He looks like a great champion in the making. . . . Wish he was riding for FDJ or Jumbo. :lol:
 
Jul 12, 2015
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Very good restday. Bernal easily rides away, Thomas seems second best, Van Baarle en Poels drop everyone bar the leaders and Castroviejo contols very strong breakaway groups.
 
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Red Rick said:
ppanther92 said:
While everyone is talking about how weak they are this year, they will take a 1-2 in Paris. With Froome this could have been a Gewiss-Ballan result at the TdF
They are only as strong as they need to be. Always doing the minimum but really never risking losing.

how about the fact that the team was able to produce (soon) 4 separate TdF winners in 7 years :lol:
 
JosephK said:
He looks like a great champion in the making. . . . Wish he was riding for FDJ or Jumbo. :lol:
The question here is going to be his committment. You can see it a bit in Thomas this year, he spent too long at the end of last year celebrating and cashing the victory in. Bernal has the added problem of a genuinely cycling mad nation where everyone will want a piece of him. Froome, Armstrong, Indurain, they were single-minded, obsessive. It's much harder for the first Colombian to win the Tour de France to be that.

And, of course, any fall-off in form next year because of the above will simply be seen as proof of doping this year.
 
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Red Rick said:
They are only as strong as they need to be. Always doing the minimum but really never risking losing.
That's arrant nonsense. They've steam-rolled the life out of the race in the past. This year, they've not been able to control it. Others have stepped up as they have stepped back.
 
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saganftw said:
how about the fact that the team was able to produce (soon) 4 separate TdF winners in 7 years :lol:
Matching Cyrille Guimard / Renault. Money matters. As does a system for spotting and nurturing talent. On top of Guimard's doping programme with Sainz (and Bellocq).
 
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fmk_RoI said:
Matching Cyrille Guimard / Renault. Money matters. As does a system for spotting and nurturing talent. On top of Guimard's doping programme with Sainz (and Bellocq).
Would be an argument if the talent was winning the races, but this year looks to be the first year that's actually going to happen. Bernal is the first Ineos GT winner to show more talent than his domestiques did before joining the team, and even then it's looking like he's only winning this race because of a couple of flukes. He only gained time yesterday because Thomas wasn't strong enough to execute his master plan and today he got lucky with the stage being neutralized before the rest of the favourites had even started racing each other. He's obviously one of the strongest guys in the race and deserves the win, but I don't think this is what the team really wanted based on their tactics. The team has been working for Thomas despite Bernal clearly being the better rider.
 
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Derry said:
Very good restday. Bernal easily rides away, Thomas seems second best, Van Baarle en Poels drop everyone bar the leaders and Castroviejo contols very strong breakaway groups.
Was it really that much of a shock that Bernal rode away?

You have the best climber in the race withdraw through injury. Alaphillippe who shouldn't even be there in the first place and Thomas who wont ride against his teammate.

The rest are second string GC riders so I don't think Bernal riding away is that shocking.
 
Oh boy...the undoubted natural talent, the way he’s performed at different points in the race and the terrain on which he’s made the decisive moves. At this point it’s hard to imagine a more plausible winner of the Tour

I guess this proves that in the eyes of some there will never be a clean, or perhaps even plausible winner of the Tour, much less so one in an Ineos/Sky jersey :(
 
Nothing looks particularly unreasonable to me this Tour. I think it's been cleaned up quite a bit with the Tramadol ban, and who knows what else. Bernal looks good but hardly dominant, and is performing on terrain and at altitude at which he should perform.

It's been nice. I've found in literally unwatchable in the past few years and after they let Froome off for his Andre the Giant sized Salbutamol ingestion I refused to watch one minute of the farce. So while I have no idea what happened last year, I appreciate this Tour much more than I have in years.
 
brownbobby said:
Oh boy...the undoubted natural talent, the way he’s performed at different points in the race and the terrain on which he’s made the decisive moves. At this point it’s hard to imagine a more plausible winner of the Tour
Yes, many people get blinded by a massive anti froome stance. As it turned out, having him eliminated was enough to make the tour great and watchable again. :)

I guess this proves that in the eyes of some there will never be a clean, or perhaps even plausible winner of the Tour, much less so one in an Ineos/Sky jersey :(
 
brownbobby said:
Oh boy...the undoubted natural talent, the way he’s performed at different points in the race and the terrain on which he’s made the decisive moves. At this point it’s hard to im that in the eyes of some there will never be a clean, or perhaps even plausible winner of the Tour, much less so one in an Ineos/Sky jersey :(
Yes, many people get blinded by a massive anti froome stance. As it turned out, having him eliminated was enough to make the tour great and watchable again. there's clearly some phenomenon occuring on emotional level. froome' absense helped fans to get soften up.
 
Jan 11, 2018
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red_flanders said:
Nothing looks particularly unreasonable to me this Tour. I think it's been cleaned up quite a bit with the Tramadol ban, and who knows what else. Bernal looks good but hardly dominant, and is performing on terrain and at altitude at which he should perform.

It's been nice. I've found in literally unwatchable in the past few years and after they let Froome off for his Andre the Giant sized Salbutamol ingestion I refused to watch one minute of the farce. So while I have no idea what happened last year, I appreciate this Tour much more than I have in years.
This is pretty much my position too. Last year I watched most of the flat stuff but gave the mountains only a cursory glance. This year has been great value throughout, and certainly has looked the most believable and open race since at least 2011.

It's kind of weird, because Ineos are highly likely to finish 1-2, their most dominant result since 2012, but their means of getting there has been much more muted than in recent years, based on good tactics, a strong but not absurd team effort, and an obviously exceptional talent in Bernal on a course that has suited him to a T. It's a little bit of a shame to see them win yet again, and I still find the idea of Thomas anywhere near a GT podium as ridiculous, but you can't begrudge Bernal and it has to be acknowledged that on the whole they've not been at their previous level and they've also benefited from weak opposition and bad luck for others. I certainly don't think that Dave's suddenly seen the light and they've gone full paniagua, but, whatever they've previously been up to in the darker areas of their prep, they definitely seem to have scaled it back.
 
most likely you are deliberately provoking or just being facetious in a way, but just in case could you enlighten on how untalented rider can reach i don't really know say top 5 in gt, not to mention about winning 6? hate for wiggins, froome and thomas always was emphatically irrational and screamed nothing but - that's not who I wanna see tour winners уt al - while the whole 'talent' theory is just commited to give it some explanations. the whole sky system had been despised for years, but once bernal made his global appearance and took of all the advantages sky system provided, it all fell into place. ;)
 
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macbindle said:
What makes you so sure that he hasn't spent his entire (short) career taking exactly the same doping products to which you attribute the wins of Wiggins, Froome and Thomas?
any performance-enhancing methods are permitted for 'talented' riders, as they have it straight away from early years. ;)

well yeah sorry, guys, of course i was referring to Red Rick's post.
 

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