Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[The Cobra]

The Cobra approves of this performance.

Seriously though, I think Sky are clean. Seriously.

 

[Mr Pumpy]

What you have here is the complete opposite of what some of you think is going on. What stands out is not that Sky got ahead, but that people like Schleck couldn't keep up. Hmm...wonder why that is?

Sky's pace wasn't so outrageous that an isolated Evans couldn't hang on and attack. What you are witnessing gentleman, is not a team of dopers ripping it up, but a a bunch of ex-dopers not being able to go quite as fast as they used to.

Last year saw a level playing field, and this year we have the same.

 

[BroDeal]

Rogers is the key. That guy is a joke. When has he ever performed when he was not on a team being juiced out the wazoo? Stapleton takes over T-Mobile and Rogers disappeared. Now he is back and better than when he was on a team that took side trips into Germany to get transfusions.

 

[SaxonUK]

Clearly been taking his doping to another level since 2009. 2010, messed it up, 2011 was the tester and they knew they'd get the window in 2012.

Are you part of the Sky support staff? If not, I'm not sure how you could possibly make these assumptions, and assumptions is what they are.

You can point to any man in the peloton and see stages or even entire grand tours where their performance has been suspect.

 

[hrotha]

What you have here is the complete opposite of what some of you think is going on. What stands out is not that Sky got ahead, but that people like Schleck couldn't keep up. Hmm...wonder why that is?

Sky's pace wasn't so outrageous that an isolated Evans couldn't hang on and attack. What you are witnessing gentleman, is not a team of dopers ripping it up, but a a bunch of ex-dopers not being able to go quite as fast as they used to.

Last year saw a level playing field, and this year we have the same.

So in other words this happened because Sky is the cleanest team out there.

Hmm.
Nope, not buying it. I'd sooner join the Scientologists.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

The Cobra approves of this performance.

Seriously though, I think Sky are clean. Seriously.

1850 VAM on a climb that short and that steep is nothing amazing by current standards, and very poor by 1990s doping standards.

People are unable to compute it rationally because of the lack of benchmarks. 80% of top climbers either aren't here, are already injured, or punctured just before the start of the climb.

What we were left with was some guys beating Cancellara and Gallopin by margins that won't shatter any records.

 

[hrotha]

1850 VAM on a climb that short and that steep is nothing amazing by current standards, and very poor by 1990s doping standards.

People are unable to compute it rationally because of the lack of benchmarks. 80% of top climbers either aren't here, are already injured, or punctured just before the start of the climb.

What we were left with was some guys beating Cancellara and Gallopin by margins that won't shatter any records.

The fact that most of those riders happen to belong to the same team is, of course, irrelevant.

 

[thehog]

Go and rewatch the 2006 Tour. First mountain stage. Where was Wiggins?

Not in the groupetto. Dropped from the groupetto. Now in third 6 years later on a climb that hit 16% at the end. I call BS on that dude. Clearly been taking his doping to another level since 2009. 2010, messed it up, 2011 was the tester and they knew they'd get the window in 2012.

Big story though is Froome. I think he'll mess it up. Mess up the rosy parade the team has for Wiggins. If history is accurate, he'll get better, Wiggins will drop. Rogers should drop. But even then, there is no other explanation for himself and Porte. They just aren't that good. Not even when working for T-Mobile or Bjarne Riis and Alberto Contador. That's how sad and scrary this mess is. They've taken it back to the older days or ridiculous garbage.

I hope they all get banned this race. I hope they mess up the program. It really is blatantly obvious what they are doing.

Also if that climb was any longer they would have much more time into the rest of the field. Minutes. It was scary the way they rode. I'm surprised they haven't been practising how to look tired. At least they should be pretending that they're over the limit.

Froome, Wiggins should have 3-4 minutes on Evans and Nibs by Tuesday and around 6-7 minutes on the rest. Come the 3rd week they'll be so far in front it won't be funny.

I cannot see how any other team can win the race from here. Its not possible when you're competing on unrestricted doping.

 

[Galic Ho]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/races/tour-de-france-2006/stage-7/results

I do not know what is up with the link but the teams for a number of associated riders is incorrect. At least for me it was. When Columbia HTC and T-Mobile are racing in the same year...times are right though. Same with multiple entries for the various incarnations of Lotto.

 

[samerics]

What you have here is the complete opposite of what some of you think is going on. What stands out is not that Sky got ahead, but that people like Schleck couldn't keep up. Hmm...wonder why that is?

Sky's pace wasn't so outrageous that an isolated Evans couldn't hang on and attack. What you are witnessing gentleman, is not a team of dopers ripping it up, but a a bunch of ex-dopers not being able to go quite as fast as they used to.

Don't ruin their fun!! Exactly, knee jerk stuff on a stage that isn't even one of the biggies where the ridiculous performances, a la Armstrong, Pantani etc have emerged in the past. It's a great team bought by vast financial resources, and a medical team of experience is bound to, when we have had an era like we've just had, have people in it who've worked on teams who doped. Are they not allowed a chance too? Basso was, and he was actually banned, not just guilty by association!!

 

[Franklin]

What you have here is the complete opposite of what some of you think is going on. What stands out is not that Sky got ahead, but that people like Schleck couldn't keep up. Hmm...wonder why that is?

Sky's pace wasn't so outrageous that an isolated Evans couldn't hang on and attack. What you are witnessing gentleman, is not a team of dopers ripping it up, but a a bunch of ex-dopers not being able to go quite as fast as they used to.

Last year saw a level playing field, and this year we have the same.

Why does a clean angelicly noble team like Sky hire these doctors?

This gentleman is very curious about your opinion on that aspect of Sky.

 

[Square-pedaller]

You can point to any man in the peloton and see stages or even entire grand tours where their performance has been suspect.

David Moncoutie?

 

[MrRoboto]

What you have here is the complete opposite of what some of you think is going on. What stands out is not that Sky got ahead, but that people like Schleck couldn't keep up. Hmm...wonder why that is?

Fränk said he was hurting all over after the fall, but that he still would have been top 5 on the stage if he hadn't tried to help Klöden.

Not sure what's going on. I get the feeling that he wants to drop out and focus on the Vuelta with Andy at this point...

 

[samerics]

Also if that climb was any longer they would have much more time into the rest of the field. Minutes. It was scary the way they rode. I'm surprised they haven't been practising how to look tired. At least they should be pretending that they're over the limit.

Froome, Wiggins should have 3-4 minutes on Evans and Nibs by Tuesday and around 6-7 minutes on the rest. Come the 3rd week they'll be so far in front it won't be funny.

I cannot see how any other team can win the race from here. Its not possible when you're competing on unrestricted doping.

Unrestricted doping??? Where do you get this stuff?? They will be tested and they will have their biological passports, hardly unrestricted doping! Get a grip, no one can unrestrictedly dope these days.

 

[Maxiton]

I did. I thought the Clinic guys who loath this BS had gotten into a biff with the Sky acolytes who loiter mostly in the Pro forum and crashed the whole forum.



Money greases many wheels. Wait it will get worse. Hopefully Federer wins tomorrow. Someone to restore some dignity. Brits have more reign this year than they will have in a very, very long time. Watch over the next two years leading up to 2016. South Americans will get a turn. Brazilians mostly. It was the Chinese a few years back, the Greeks and yes, the Aussies before then. Officials literally look the other way at certain times for certain groups. Doesn't hurt there is serious money behind Sky. It's not a far stretch to imagine this whole Tour was bought. People will make a lot of money out of Brits this year. A lot of money. Think I'm joking? It wasn't a coincidence Mark Renshaw didn't lead out Matt Goss at last years WC or that the course suited Cav. Nor this years Tour parcours.

Yeah, it might be as simple as that. Just buy the whole damn Tour. Hell, buy several key events across several sports.

I always assumed the whole bread and circuses thing was just that, and that no more would be spent on it than it took to keep us entertained and make a buck in the bargain. But I'm beginning to think its now seen somehow as part of national strategy. In fact, come to think of it, it's been this way since the Cold War days. So nothing new, just newly apparent to me.

Well Wiggins famously jumped into the Lance leg humping PR team many years back, after his own transformation. Sky have been playing the LA PR playbook for years now. It's been called out on these forums for a while.

I know they won't get away with it. It'll come back somewhere, sometime. Be it they crash and get injured. They fall sick. They get popped. Upstarts and blatant cheats like this always reap what they soe. It's one of the few universal rules that won't be broken. Cause and effect. There is always a cost. For a lot of viewers here, it's about respect. They deserve none.

I have a feeling the downhills could be very revealing for Sky.

Hope you're right.

Shouldn't we wait for the stage on thursday to make final conclusions. This was just a steep hill ending a flat stage.

You mean it's only the Dauphine? We can always hope for a miracle (or, rather, a counter-miracle), but unless there's some huge collapse, it's probably over.

 

[Mr Pumpy]

Cleanest team? I think post-Contador and in the current climate none of them are going to take outrageous risks with doping.

I think people like Wiggins are able to flourish because the rampant dopers are muted. To make comparisons with Ricco is ridiculous. There was no major attack off the front from Wiggins, he was being paced up the mountain by a strong (ie. rich) team. He couldn't even keep up with his team mate and struggled to match Evans at the end. You are seeing what you saw last year, a very close race.

I think some of you guys are watching a different race.

 

[Franklin]

Unrestricted doping??? Where do you get this stuff?? They will be tested and they will have their biological passports, hardly unrestricted doping! Get a grip, no one can unrestrictedly dope these days.

Now I do agree it was a bit hysterical... but in truth, what has changed since the Postal years?

I await your answer with trepidation...

 

[Galic Ho]

If you defend a team you must be a fanboy?

Wow, so you can use proper punctuation...like I did. So what does a question mark imply? Can't be too hard for you to figure out. I left a few questions. Answer is up to the poster...not me. You're wide awake today aren't you?

 

[samerics]

One final thing, you guys say virtually everyone is doping anyway, how come Sky are so much better? Are they the only team with money? They're hardly working with Ferrari are they?

 

[BroDeal]

Unrestricted doping??? Where do you get this stuff?? They will be tested and they will have their biological passports, hardly unrestricted doping! Get a grip, no one can unrestrictedly dope these days.

Do really think a corrupt pig like McQuaid would open a passport case against riders he is depending on to expand road cycling to Britain? He let Armstrong get away with it. Why do you think he will do any different for Wiggins?

 

[Franklin]

One final thing, you guys say virtually everyone is doping anyway, how come asks are so much better? Are they only team with money? They're hardly working with Ferrari are they?

In the age of Ricco everyone who counted was definitely doping. How come Saunier Duval was so much better than the other teams?

 

[hrotha]

Don't ruin their fun!! Exactly, knee jerk stuff on a stage that isn't even one of the biggies where the ridiculous performances, a la Armstrong, Pantani etc have emerged in the past. It's a great team bought by vast financial resources, and a medical team of experience is bound to, when we have had an era like we've just had, have people in it who've worked on teams who doped. Are they not allowed a chance too? Basso was, and he was actually banned, not just guilty by association!!

Knee-jerk reaction after one stage? Don't be ridiculous. Our suspicions have been building up all year and we were already at red alert levels during the Dauphiné, because Sky have been incredible all year. It goes back to 2011, with Froome's sudden explosion. It goes back to 2009, with Wiggins' transformation at Garmin. Then you have Porte, who was a complete non-factor during all of 2011, and Rogers, who stopped being relevant when he stopped working with Ferrari... until Sky signed him. And he was still very much a non-climber until this year.

You can try to buy one extraordinary transformation or performance, maybe. Two is stretching it. When it's four guys from the same team, it's time for all the alarms to go off. Knee-jerk reaction? It's the complete opposite.

 

[Galic Ho]

Can't it be both?

Just working with the averages here.

From what I've seen, they aren't usually mutually exclusive. Especially on this forum. Anyone who I remember talking up Sky, Wiggins or has anything UK related in their handle or location...well take of that what you will. Generally it's all too telling for me.

So yes both.

 

[Dr.Sahl]

Don't ruin their fun!! Exactly, knee jerk stuff on a stage that isn't even one of the biggies where the ridiculous performances, a la Armstrong, Pantani etc have emerged in the past. It's a great team bought by vast financial resources, and a medical team of experience is bound to, when we have had an era like we've just had, have people in it who've worked on teams who doped. Are they not allowed a chance too? Basso was, and he was actually banned, not just guilty by association!!

I know some will hate me for this, but IMO people that used dope (evidence needed in this case) and staff members/doctors found guilty of doing this, should get a lifetime ban.. this way the price is so high that it will prevent some from it..

Personaly I think its a joke some riders are in the peleton... but thats merely my opinion.

 

[samerics]

Now I do agree it was a bit hysterical... but in truth, what has changed since the Postal years?

I await your answer with trepidation...

No trepidation required, just a fully functioning brain that hasn't succumbed to paranoia . What has changed is that USPS able to support and dominate stages in an era where doping was heavier, and what's more, they were capable of supporting a guy who was juiced to the gills and capable of putting in ridiculous performances. Hardly Team Sky when you look at the wattages!