Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Dr. Maserati]

That's a policy? No. That is a press release. Sky have heaps of press releases. How do I know? Coz it was done in 2010, 2 years after they formed, in response to Floyd Landis.

A policy is created and then readable when you create your organisation. It provides the foundation for your organisation.

Show me one piece of transparency from Garmin and I can show you 10 pieces of opacity.

Take it to the Garmin thread.

It is a press release - with the policy clearly stated on it and we know that Garmin did hold to it.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Take it to the Garmin thraed.

After you, good sir. If I wish to show that the 2 "Clean teams" of the peloton mirror each other's actions on an ongoing basis, in a thread dedicated to one of those teams, I shall continue to do so.

Should you wish to disagree with my point and defend Garmin by posting one of their press releases, I suggest you do it in an appropriate thread, and I will respond there.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

After you, good sir. If I wish to show that the 2 "Clean teams" of the peloton mirror each other's actions on an ongoing basis, in a thread dedicated to one of those teams, I shall continue to do so.

Should you wish to disagree with my point and defend Garmin by posting one of their press releases, I suggest you do it in an appropriate thread, and I will respond there.

You are the one with the obsessive Sky=Garmin.
Don't introduce it and I wont have to waste my time correcting you.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

You are the one with the obsessive Sky=Garmin.
Don't introduce it and I wont have to waste my time correcting you.

All I am asking is to see Sky (yes and Garmin's) policies, in writing. People talk about these policies as if they are readily available.

I am pointing out that yet again, they are not.

No other team mentions such a policy. I feel it pertinent to point this out.

Are you seriously trying to censor me?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

All I am asking is to see Sky (yes and Garmin's) policies, in writing. People talk about these policies as if they are readily available.

I am pointing out that yet again, they are not.

No other team mentions such a policy. I feel it pertinent to point this out.

Are you seriously trying to censor me?

No.
Quite the opposite. This is the Sky thread - I am quite enjoying Sky squirm and having you keep on harping on about Garmin and painting in broad strokes actually misses the exact subtleties of what is happening with Sky.


I like your enthusiasm, but not the same points in every thread.
You can pop any thoughts in to any appropriate thread you wish, even open a new one but this is the Sky thread.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

No.
Quite the opposite. This is the Sky thread - I am quite enjoying Sky squirm and having you keep on harping on about Garmin and painting in broad strokes actually misses the exact subtleties of what is happening with Sky.


I like your enthusiasm, but not the same points in every thread.
You can pop any thoughts in to any appropriate thread you wish, even open a new one but this is the Sky thread.

If my posts are OT, flag them. A moderator will be by and delete them or edit them.

 

[Tinman]

I suspect that the plan is to make Yates the scapegoat a la Saiz when Puerto went down, and ignore the rest. Everyone is asking about Yates and to a lesser degree Rogers but no one is looking at the others - Julich, Porte etc, no one is daring to question Brailsford himself.

Brailsford has been studying the Riis method of dealing with doping scandals and has learnt well. First you feign ignorance, then you act indignant that you've been betrayed, then you do a bit of spin about how tough you are 'sign a pledge, hire an anti-doping expert' and then you go back to normal.

Brailsford isn't part of the solution, he's part of the problem. However, Brits like some medal success so don't expect anything far reaching.

+1 in its entirety, except last line. Too late, it's gone too far, Murdoch cannot afford. Sky will implode. Unless they purge this will hang around their neck for years to come.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

If my posts are OT, flag them. A moderator will be by and delete them or edit them.

Why cant you just self moderate?
I dont go to the mods unless there is something offensive written and it is should not be their role to clean up your mess.

It isnt that hard - you want to bring up something about Garmin, do it in one of those threads.

 

[msjett]

I suspect that the plan is to make Yates the scapegoat a la Saiz when Puerto went down, and ignore the rest. Everyone is asking about Yates and to a lesser degree Rogers but no one is looking at the others - Julich, Porte etc, no one is daring to question Brailsford himself.

Brailsford has been studying the Riis method of dealing with doping scandals and has learnt well. First you feign ignorance, then you act indignant that you've been betrayed, then you do a bit of spin about how tough you are 'sign a pledge, hire an anti-doping expert' and then you go back to normal.

Brailsford isn't part of the solution, he's part of the problem. However, Brits like some medal success so don't expect anything far reaching.

It's the perception/reality thing again.

Why would people question Braislford when Pat declared British Cycling clean? I seem to remember fat Pat spouting his brand of bull about the brits during the olympics.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Why cant you just self moderate?
I dont go to the mods unless there is something offensive written and it is should not be their role to clean up your mess.

It isnt that hard - you want to bring up something about Garmin, do it in one of those threads.

I'll go one better - given you were the one that posted a slab of Garmin text, off-topically in a Sky thread.

I'll ignore you.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I suspect that the plan is to make Yates the scapegoat a la Saiz when Puerto went down, and ignore the rest. Everyone is asking about Yates and to a lesser degree Rogers but no one is looking at the others - Julich, Porte etc, no one is daring to question Brailsford himself.

Brailsford has been studying the Riis method of dealing with doping scandals and has learnt well. First you feign ignorance, then you act indignant that you've been betrayed, then you do a bit of spin about how tough you are 'sign a pledge, hire an anti-doping expert' and then you go back to normal.

Brailsford isn't part of the solution, he's part of the problem. However, Brits like some medal success so don't expect anything far reaching.

It's the perception/reality thing again.

I was going to agree.
But Dave is no Bjarne - Bjarne got rid of Basso, brought in the testing and carried on.

Dave will either lose all implicated people now, and that could be 5, 6 people, which would be a PR disaster.
Or they stay quietly which only pushes things a little bit down the street and eventually gets exposed.
Neither is good.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I'll go one better - given you were the one that posted a slab of Garmin text, off-topically in a Sky thread.

I'll ignore you.

Good idea - although you will miss the irony in your earlier statement of:
"Are you seriously trying to censor me?"

 

[Ferminal]

"At its start, Team Principal Dave Brailsford re-stated our stance on doping and called on the riders, staff and management to reaffirm their own personal commitment to our position."

Thanks Dave, Froome's Tour victory not in doubt then. Next year will be good.

 

[Hugh Januss]

Dr. M. how is it that you seem to have decided that Sky is derty dirty but Garmin is cleanest of clean. To whit, comparisons are fair game IMO.

 

[BroDeal]

Brailsford is about five years behind the times. Anti-doping declarations and salary penalties were in vogue in 2007 and 2008.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Dr. M. how is it that you seem to have decided that Sky is derty dirty but Garmin is cleanest of clean. To whit, comparisons are fair game IMO.

I have never ever said that Garmin are clean.

Which actually makes my point - why is it people do not judge what people actually say or do, whether that is me, team Sky whoever.

 

[BigBoat]

This Brailsford guy is trying to keep his riders from 'spitting in the soup' by admitting to doping & telling about it. He wants them to keep it a secret.

The policy is a double edged PR sword. They look anti doping & their also pro doping at the same time.

 

[Willy_Voet]

****ty policy. Guarantees omerta will continue.

 

[benzwire]

Here's a good article by UCI Overlord:

http://www.cyclismas.com/2012/10/groundhog-day-for-cycling/

 

[Orvieto]

****ty policy. Guarantees omerta will continue.

Terribly policy. What does Brailsford think Yates and Rogers will do - admit their involvement at Disco and with Ferrari, then politely step away? He's backed them into a corner will surely backfire on them. You can just see it. On the day before a big climb in next year's Tour De Froome, somebody will leak something juicy about either of them.
Is Brailsford really this naive? Does he think these secrets can be kept now or does he honestly believe Yates in particular when he says "I worked with Lance but never had any inclination this type of practice was going on"?

 

[I Watch Cycling In July]

Terribly policy. What does Brailsford think Yates and Rogers will do - admit their involvement at Disco and with Ferrari, then politely step away? He's backed them into a corner will surely backfire on them. You can just see it. On the day before a big climb in next year's Tour De Froome, somebody will leak something juicy about either of them.
Is Brailsford really this naive? Does he think these secrets can be kept now or does he honestly believe Yates in particular when he says "I worked with Lance but never had any inclination this type of practice was going on"?

He's backed them into a corner that will backfire on the riders. They sign now, and if anything comes out, the story will be those dirty liars told fibs to clean Sky. The real story of course is that, intentionally or otherwise, Brailsford is enforcing Omerta. He's pushing the responsibility for cycling's problems onto his staff, instead of creating an environment that helps solve the problem.

Bassons example shows us there might be a clean rider on a dirty team. But if Brailsford wants to run around doing asinine counterproductive stuff like this, there is absolutely no chance I will give HIM the benefit of the doubt. This is not about SKY riders to me, this is about Brailsford. I wish I had the opportunity to look him in the eye and tell him to fvck off.

The faux shock and insistence that cycling is clean now, gives the impression that most of cycling is mindless reverting to learned behavior while under stress. The BS worked in the past, so they think it will work again. They disregard the fact that we now have proof that we were mislead by the UCI and cycling fraternity on a grand scale. Whether or not they are telling the truth about cycling being cleaner or their team caring about clean cycling they won't be believed.

Cycling and cycling teams need to take action. Not words, not rider declarations, not wilting protestations of shock and horror. Action.

Sky should fire Rogers and Yates if they DON'T come clean, not if they do.

 

[Andy99]

What a load of nonsense.

Brailsford is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

What else can he do? Either way you lot would accuse of omerta enforcement.

 

[bobbins]

Does Brailsford have to sign? What if it came out that he facilitated cover ups and knew riders were dirty before he signed them and even had riders dropped from national teams because they were dirty?

Could become quite awkward for the man with 2 jobs.

 

[blackcat]

Does Brailsford have to sign? What if it came out that he facilitated cover ups and knew riders were dirty before he signed them and even had riders dropped from national teams because they were dirty?

Could become quite awkward for the man with 2 jobs.

separated at birth

my precious

 

[Lanark]

What a load of nonsense.

Brailsford is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

What else can he do? Either way you lot would accuse of omerta enforcement.

Don't try to play the victim, it doesn't suit you. Saying you will fire people as soon as they come clean about their past is enforcing the omerta, there really is no other way to see it.

So you're saying 'damned if you do...', so what does that mean in this context. If Brailsford didn't have riders sign a meaningless piece of paper, people here would have complained about that? Do you have any proof of that, or are you just trying to play the victim?