Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Avoriaz]

Löfkvist is someone who certainly really feels ****.ty, because he knows exactly that he´d leave many of the likes mentioned above in my text behind if they were clean. He´s has the qualities of a Jan Ullrich and stays clean, hats off to him.

Then maybe he will tell all as he is leaving Sky to join IAM for 2013

 

[RHRH19861986]

Then maybe he will tell all as he is leaving Sky to join IAM for 2013

No, he wants to ride another 5-10 years. Maybe he´ll tell after his career, but far from certain.

 

[Tim_sleepless]

What I'm sure happened was that Sky were trying doping, and got ill, then deliberately poisoned and killed the soigneur to deflect attention from the fact that they were doping.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

So take a deep breath and appologize. Admit that you are misrepresenting the stance of most of us here.

I am most likely mis-representing the stance of some folk here, but the majority - in number, if not volume of posts - of the anti-Sky faction would complain if Brailsford told them that night followed day, because they are anti-Sky or simply like to complain.

To those who I misrepresented, I am genuinely sorry.

 

[Tim_sleepless]

I am most likely mis-representing the stance of some folk here, but the majority - in number, if not volume of posts - of the anti-Sky faction would complain if Brailsford told them that night followed day, because they are anti-Sky or simply like to complain.

"Night" is just a cover for doping as you're less likely to get tested then. Why else would all microdosing happen at night.

 

[thirteen]

from this week's popb*tch:

On yer bike <<
Fergie's top tip

Earlier this year Team GB cycling
coach Dave Brailsford met Sir Alex
Ferguson to exchange management
tips and techniques. Brailsford was
particularly keen to know the secret
to Fergie's and Man Utd's success
longevity. Ferguson's reply?
"Get rid of the c**ts."

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Dear Wiggo, interesting theory put forth wrt Leinders hiring - the circumstances surrounding which I think have puzzled everyone.

I don't have any great understanding of the period, but would this theory also fit?


I) The sudden death of a close staff member is going to spook the riders, whether doping is involved or not.

II) The riders request a doctor to monitor the Team. I think that this would be a natural response from the riders.

III) Leinders is hired short notice to fulfill this request made by the riders.

iV) Because the hiring was made at short notice, the necessary checks on Leinders weren't made or the results overlooked, because of the nature of the situation at the time and his specialist knowledge.

v) The data for this period wasn't collated or was lost due to 'minds being elsewhere.'

Brailsford and Team Sky reconsidered their medical policy – initially no practitioners with a background in cycling were to be hired – after the death of the carer Txema González following a bacterial infection contracted during the 2010 Vuelta a España, citing the need for specialist knowledge to put the riders first.

The question this statement raises in my mind is - does Leinders have specialist knowledge of pathology?

Bacterial infections and viruses are 2 different things but they both require an "entrance to the body" vector. No information at all is provided as to:

which bacteria
which virus
how it was contracted / established originally

Txema was cremated, so difficult to exhume for further analysis, but I would be very interested in whether they did an autopsy and if so if they determined the nature of the infection that lead to sepsis.

The nature of the rider's virus - so incredibly early in a GT - seems supect to me, given the traditional 2 week taper leading up to the race, you should be the fittest and healthiest you have ever been right there at the start.

Yes, I understand hiring someone at short notice, but no, I do not understand hiring a doctor like that when the team itself is not actually competing in another GT or hot stage race until July (or May Giro?) the following year. There are no real team races happening until Feb 2011 (?). Internet is bad so difficult to confirm when Leinders started working with the team.

II) The riders request a doctor to monitor the Team. I think that this would be a natural response from the riders.

I find it curious that in his interview in October of that year - a month after the Vuelta catastrophe - Brad is not saying, "we have a new doctor to keep us healthy", or, "we have a new physiologist in Tim Kerrison to get those marginal gains going, crunching our Tour data and looking at our cadences".

Instead, he says, "I am not going to do it by the book any more", "I am going to do it my way".

So whilst the riders in that Vuelta team may have asked for better medical help - I have a few problems:
1. any general doctor can help with medical issues like bacterial infections and viruses. there is no cycling-specific ailment and even if there were, riders are still human. That ailment can be handled medically by a non-cycling specific doctor. GPs often get involved with sporting teams, so sporting-specific ailments are treated by ordinary doctors on a regular basis. I know this from first-hand experience.

2. Brailsford says, "to put the riders first" - how is that even making sense? How is it applicable when you consider it was a soigneur that died and the riders were at worst vomiting and pulling out.

3. They rode the Giro and the Tour that year, with no issues. And went relatively poorly in both races. But no issues at all. Giros are hot, in Italy. Tour is hot too, middle of a French summer. What was so bad about the Vuelta?

4. After Leinders is hired, Sky's results rocket up the charts. No question. Correlation is strong, causation is the thing we need to determine. Point out that Leinders was involved with Rabobank and specifically Rasmussen when he smashed the Tour and it does not look very good at all.

5. Who connects Leinders to Brailsford? And how?

6. Check the Vuelta reports - the virus changed into a bacterial infection after Brailsford arrived in Spain. Up till that point, it was being reported as the same thing. Nowhere does Brailsford say, "I have discussed with the doctors in the hospital" or any other clarification of how he knows it's different. I realise this is all a bit conspiratorial, but the information path is missing (or is Brailsford a doctor as well?) and not corroborated at all - except by the team doctor, but only post-Brailsford's arrival, and I find that highly suspect. It's happening in Spain, where the reach of the media actually doing the reporting is limited at best, more likely nonexistent. Txema has a history and the Spanish are probably not too keen to get into too many details. If Brailsford can make it all go away they are probably preferring that to dredging up anything that might taint his memory, even though his death is a tragic loss.

 

[MartinGT]

Apologies about this. I have looked and not seen much.

Whats the situation with Porte, why are people saying he is suspected of doping?

 

[Franklin]

I am most likely mis-representing the stance of some folk here, but the majority - in number, if not volume of posts - of the anti-Sky faction would complain if Brailsford told them that night followed day, because they are anti-Sky or simply like to complain.

To those who I misrepresented, I am genuinely sorry.

Are you for real?

1. You explicitly stated that the anti doping charter now effectuated is criticised for being a paper tiger. This is a blatant missrepresentation of the majority here.
2. You refuse to acknowledge this untruth and now spin this as if you said we criticise DB for everything.

You are a little man if you don't acknowledge you nonsense and deflect it with some drivel about DB. And yes, DB is a liar or an idiot, but the criticism on the charter is straightforward.

 

[Tim_sleepless]

Apologies about this. I have looked and not seen much.

Whats the situation with Porte, why are people saying he is suspected of doping?

He was seen cycling in a suspicious manner.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

You are a little man...

Blimey. What's this then? "Surrendering the moral high ground 101"?

You highlighted a legitimate concern with what I posted and called for an apology. I gave a genuine one, which rather than acknowledging, you ignore and instead respond with an insult. And you're calling me a "little man".

You might want to reflect on that, old chap.

 

[Don Quixote]

Thanks that's really informative, I appreciate your time explaining things as you see them. I found this which also has some details, but I'm sure you've read it:

http://www.cyclesportmag.com/news-a...ses-doctor-dilemma-we-are-100-per-cent-clean/

 

[Mellow Velo]

Here's how a GT works:

1st week: sprinter's stages - get your leadout train and sprinter (Ben Swift) on the front for a stage win, maybe an early leader's jersey and take the pressure off for the rest of the Tour. Keep your GC guy out of trouble on the road by protecting him.

2nd week: key stage separates the men from the boys and the GC guys stretch their legs. Rest day "recovery" ensures a good second half to the week for GC and key climbers / helpers.

3d week: Queen stage and / or final TT are key stages where recovery or boost are requred to ensure optimum performance.

So no, Löfkvist doesn't need to boost until rest day mid-2nd week.

And given how poorly it was going, they pulled the entire team rather than risk it.

Except this was the Vuelta, not the Tour de France.
Week 1: 2 tough uphill finish. Xorret de Cati capable of causing significant GC time gaps.
Usually no mid-week rest days in GTs, (Monday or Tuesday) as in this case.
Second week rest day came at the end and after 4 high mountain stages.

So, another holey theory that doesn't fly.

What I'm sure happened was that Sky were trying doping, and got ill, then deliberately poisoned and killed the soigneur to deflect attention from the fact that they were doping.

Has to be a candidate for the most ludicrous, offensive post of all time.
Pretty impressive, given the strong competition around here.

 

[Avoriaz]

Has to be a candidate for the most ludicrous, offensive post of all time.
Pretty impressive, given the strong competition around here.

This. Though I hope it was tongue in cheek.

The Burke and Hare post a little later not much better tbh

 

[Chaddy]

This thread is amazing, some real tin foil hat stuff.

 

[MartinGT]

This. Though I hope it was tongue in cheek.

The Burke and Hare post a little later not much better tbh

I think, it may have been said with a slight hint of sarcasm

 

[MartinGT]

This thread is amazing, some real tin foil hat stuff.

Welcome to the thread.

 

[Mellow Velo]

This. Though I hope it was tongue in cheek.

The Burke and Hare post a little later not much better tbh

It could well be, but the trouble is, it's getting hard to tell around here.
In any case, it's in pretty bad taste, even for sarcasm.

 

[Telmisartan new]

This thread is amazing, some real tin foil hat stuff.

What an impressive first post. Truly enlightening. I look forward to your future posts.

 

[RownhamHill]

It could well be, but the trouble is, it's getting hard to tell around here.
In any case, it's in pretty bad taste, even for sarcasm.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it definitely was a sarcastic post.

And I'm also going to suggest that any bad taste related to this particular post is found in the previous posts that this one was satirising. But obviously that's just my personal opinion. . .

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that it definitely was a sarcastic post.

Reading other posts from Tim_Sleepless, he does appear to tend towards the tongue in cheek, it must be said!

 

[oldcrank]

Wow. It's been at least four days since some Team Sky news broke
that none of the obsessive anti-Sky conspiracy-theory hidden-
meaning-in-everything-Wiggins-says posters have not picked up
on yet. Does this mean they are not really investigative journalists
in training, but just delusional, myopic wackos?

 

[autologous]

Does this mean they are not really investigative journalists
in training, but just delusional, myopic wackos?

so says the **** accusing Lemond of doping without a shred of evidence. I guess you're the expert on delusional myopia. wacko.

 

[sublimit]

"Night" is just a cover for doping as you're less likely to get tested then. Why else would all microdosing happen at night.

Depends, if you live north of the Arctic circle night doesn't follow day on some occasions.

So those not believing Braislford were right.

 

[thehog]

Depends, if you live north of the Arctic circle night doesn't follow day on some occasions.

So those not believing Braislford were right.

Question is: what the hell Sky going to do in 2013?

I'd say they're deadlocked on now to approach the program. Porte has been taken under Wiggins's wing so he doesn't spill the beans. Froome is the worry. He's going to want it hit it at the same levels as before.

Rogers will feel lost as he won't be able to improve by 7% again. He'll be out of Sky by 2013 year end.