Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[BroDeal]

I reckon Brailsford will soon be telling us that the team has been under the spell of hypnotoad, which is why they are now shocked and completely amazed:

Brailsford will hold a press conferance and hand out brain slugs to the media. The British press will willingly accept them.

 

[Franklin]

this is a scandal?.................oh what dull lives you must live

I'd say that if you have to fire your succes DS, an asistent DS and a trainer you could call it a scandal.

But hey, this happens every year. Uhm no it doesn't... hmmm

 

[ToreBear]

This whole mess has revealed what sham that "zero tolerance" policy really was. Apparently they didn't even bother asking their hirees if they'd been naughty.

I wouldn't say sham, more like overly ambitious. I think they got a shock in 2010, panicked and brought in new blood without bothering with peoples histories. And now that they are safe in the world tour points wise and have achieved their goal of a tour victory(hopefully clean), they can renew their pledge.

As for what they asked before hiring? Who knows. Perhaps they only asked the did you dope question?

Guys who have been lying for 10-15 years could have just said no, as they always did before.

 

[Parrulo]

i am surprised no1 else spotted this,

wiggins at the time still a pure pursuit rider vs 21 year old neo pro Nibali

That finishin list reads like a who's who of the USADA witness list.

1 David Zabriskie (USA) Team CSC 4.35.84 (53.509 km/h)
2 George Hincapie (USA) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 0.01.88
3 Stuart O'grady (Aus) Team CSC 0.06.07
4 Sebastian Lang (Ger) Gerolsteiner 0.06.91
5 Joost Posthuma (Ned) Rabobank 0.07.35
6 Stijn Devolder (Bel) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 0.07.40
7 Alejandro Valverde (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears 0.07.61
8 Vladimir Gusev (Rus) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 0.07.70
9 Floyd Landis (USA) Phonak Hearing Systems 0.08.00
10 Andrey Kashechkin (Kaz) Würth 0.08.19
11 Peter Mazur (Pol) Saunier Duval-Prodir 0.08.50
12 Christophe Moreau (Fra) AG2R Prevoyance 0.08.96
13 Bert Grabsch (Ger) Phonak Hearing Systems 0.09.01
14 Thor Hushovd (Nor) Credit Agricole 0.09.32
15 Alexandre Vinokourov (Kaz) Würth 0.09.62
16 Ryder Hesjedal (Can) Phonak Hearing Systems 0.09.67
17 Oscar Pereiro Sio (Spa) Caisse d'Epargne-Illes Balears 0.10.26
18 Manuel Quinziato (Ita) Liquigas 0.10.37
19 Vincenzo Nibali (Ita) Liquigas 0.10.46
20 Denis Menchov (Rus) Rabobank 0.10.99
21 Bradley Wiggins (GBr) Cofidis, le Credit par Telephone 0.11.02
22 Ronny Scholz (Ger) Gerolsteiner 0.11.06
23 Thomas Dekker (Ned) Rabobank 0.11.23
24 Philippe Gilbert (Bel) Française des Jeux 0.11.30
25 Erik Dekker (Ned) Rabobank 0.11.34
26 Didier Rous (Fra) Bouygues Telecom 0.11.35
27 Michael Barry (Can) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 0.11.39
28 Iker Camano (Spa) Euskaltel-Euskadi 0.12.10
29 Yaroslav Popovych (Ukr) Discovery Channel Pro Cycling Team 0.12.19
30 Remmert Wielinga (Ned) Quick Step-Innergetic 0.12.30

More like 8th barely 5 seconds down.

6 years later:

wiggins no longer a pursuit rider perfectly suited to prologues vs 27 year old now GT winner and 2 times podium finisher on another GT's nibali:

rank rider rider No. team times gap

1. SUI
CANCELLARA Fabian 12 RADIOSHACK-NISSAN 07' 13''
2. GBR
WIGGINS Bradley 101 SKY PROCYCLING 07' 20'' + 00' 07''
14. ITA
NIBALI Vincenzo 51 LIQUIGAS-CANNONDALE 07' 31'' + 00' 18''

i guess wiggins wasn't used to riding his bike on tarmac back in 2006

 

[Benotti69]

I wouldn't say sham, more like overly ambitious. I think they got a shock in 2010, panicked and brought in new blood without bothering with peoples histories. And now that they are safe in the world tour points wise and have achieved their goal of a tour victory(hopefully clean), they can renew their pledge.

As for what they asked before hiring? Who knows. Perhaps they only asked the did you dope question?

Guys who have been lying for 10-15 years could have just said no, as they always did before.

I would say they got a shock when they did not get results and Sky demanded results so went the route everyone else takes in the peloton.

They are not safe. They have been in bed with the UCI all year and that could come undone yet.

 

[ToreBear]

FYI, they broke that one at least in spirit when they hired Lenders. He didn't get a WADA/UCI/KNWB conviction, but the judge implicated him in Whereabouts fraud (and subsequently ruled in favor of MR in the case against Rasmussen).

Perhaps brailsford only did a google search and nothing came up in english that set off any alarms?

Ferrari is famous, but Leinders?

To be honest I thought his job at rabobank was to make sure no one tested positive, not selling EPO to the riders.

 

[ToreBear]

I would say they got a shock when they did not get results and Sky demanded results so went the route everyone else takes in the peloton.

They are not safe. They have been in bed with the UCI all year and that could come undone yet.

Well if thats the case, someone will get cold feet and talk. I don't see anyone keeping that big a secret for long. Especially in these times of confessions, amnesty talk etc..

It will come out. Especially if you push out people who are in on the secret. Look what Landis did.

 

[martinvickers]

Pot say hi to the kettle.

Funny how you get upset about being called a fanboy but have no problem in labelling those who disagree with your view of cycling as being a 'conspiracy theorist'.

Give us an example of a 'conspiracy' according to the clinic that has subsequently been demonstrated not to be the case?

Who said i'm upset? It is what it is... and nobody's called me a fanboy yet, but you're welcome to make a start...

As for "show me a conspiracy subsequently shown not to be one"..that's the whole blooming point of a conspiracy theorist - they NEVER accept it's been disproved, regardless - they just claim any contrary evidence is proof that it's another layer of conspiracy, to hide the other ones!

 

[taiwan]

Anyway you have to expect the team to knock it back BIG TIME in 2013, after all this crap. Turn the SRMs down a notch. Froome could do with another rare tropical disease around Tour time.

 

[will10]

Have you looked at Wiggins's role prior to 2009? He turned pro in January 2001 for a month. His real start in the pro ranks was 2002 at FdJ where he was not riding the Tour let alone being a protected rider. For most of his time at FdJ & CA he was learning the ropes and then preparing for the Olympics in Athens. Similarly at Cofidis he was only there to support Moncoutié, whilst having a stab at prologues. As a foreign rider on traditional French teams he would not have been seen as a potential Tour contender, even in Legeay's anglophile eyes.

I don't dismiss the possibility of him doping, as it is impossible to rule it out. But to cite his limited starts & positions as evidence is wholly unfair.

2006 - First Tour (124th @ 3h 24')
2007 - Team withdrawn (while 131rd @ coincidentally 3h 24'!)
2008 - Not selected to ride (Olympics)
2009 - Garmin (4th with a team supporting him)
2010 - Sky (24th with a team supporting him)
2011 - Crashed out with broken collarbone
2012 - Wins with team built to do the job

There are other races with climbing in than the Tour.

Show me one good climbing performance from Wiggins before Giro 2009. Just one.

 

[Franklin]

Then you were dead wrong. I'll answer this one in reverse order:

1. Geert Leinders was not only the head medical staff responsible for the team in which Michael Rasmussen almost won the TDF, he was part of the management triumvirate with de Rooij (DS), Breukink (General management).

Also note that under his tenure he got three GT wins with Mencov. Now that surely will be seen as clean (no sarcasm, quite simply GL wil have said it was clean), but Dave certainly hired Leinders because of his job at Rabo.

We know that his former employee history came to light either when reading his CV or in the interview procedure. It's simply impossible that his job at Rabo was not discussed. Note that his experience is why he was hired!

2. Definitely true, but the Rasmussen affair ranks up there with Landis for spectacular doping cases, only eclipsed by his Lanceness. Quite simply put, the Rasmussen affair and GL role at Rabo will have been noticed by someone at Sky.

3. You hire someone at a very important and critical spot, you look at their history, especially with a non doper policy.

DB will not have done just a google search. Besides, even a cursory Leinders+Rabo+Rasmussen would have triggered enough articles (currently it just gets you articles about when he was dismissed).

To be honest I thought his job at rabobank was to make sure no one tested positive, not selling EPO to the riders.

Besides, and this one has been brought up by me a few times before....

He was the Doctor at the leading triumvirate of one of the biggest team in the Sport. Under his watch we had three, almost four GT wins. Now unless we really belief in miracles we can assume Mencov was dirty (we have Humanplasma for starters and his famous 9 at the suspicion list).

It boggles the mind that somehow Leinders is seen as a good natured dupe. Not only will he have been aware of every infraction and every fluctuation (teams monitor their own riders!), he also explicitly got a carte blanche on medical grounds (and there can only be one reason for this carte blanche).

How much succes and links with superhuman performances does this guy need before he's taken serious? Getting three (four) GT wins is quite something special. Riis only has two regular (Giro Basso, sastre TdF). Quickstep, Lotto, never managed it. BMC, one time with Evans, Liquigas had three (DL, Basso and Nibbles).

Leinders might not be Ferrari, but he certainly isn't a simple doctor who just helped the riders to stay healthy.

 

[ToreBear]

Then you were dead wrong. I'll answer this one in reverse order:

1. Geert Leinders was not only the head medical staff responsible for the team in which Michael Rasmussen almost won the TDF, he was part of the management triumvirate with de Rooij (DS), Breukink (General management).

Also note that under his tenure he got three GT wins with Mencov. Now that surely will be seen as clean (no sarcasm, quite simply GL wil have said it was clean), but Dave certainly hired Leinders because of his job at Rabo.

We know that his former employee history came to light either when reading his CV or in the interview procedure. It's simply impossible that his job at Rabo was not discussed. Note that his experience is why he was hired!

2. Definitely true, but the Rasmussen affair ranks up there with Landis for spectacular doping cases, only eclipsed by his Lanceness. Quite simply put, the Rasmussen affair and GL role at Rabo will have been noticed by someone at Sky.

3. You hire someone at a very important and critical spot, you look at their history, especially with a non doper policy.

DB will not have done just a google search. Besides, even a cursory Leinders+Rabo+Rasmussen would have triggered enough articles (currently it just gets you articles about when he was dismissed).

Is'nt Mencov part of the Ferrari debacle in padua? If he were using Ferrari what would be Leinders spesific role?

I would very much like to know what Brailsford did before hiring Leinders. Hopefully the media will get a good explanation in the future.

 

[Franklin]

Leinders is indeed the perfect doctor. He manages to get away with Rasmussen and Mencov.

Now he got a discharge at Sky, but nothing bad so far.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

I wouldn't say sham, more like overly ambitious. I think they got a shock in 2010, panicked and brought in new blood without bothering with peoples histories. And now that they are safe in the world tour points wise and have achieved their goal of a tour victory(hopefully clean), they can renew their pledge.

As for what they asked before hiring? Who knows. Perhaps they only asked the did you dope question?

Guys who have been lying for 10-15 years could have just said no, as they always did before.

Yates was there in 2010 though, no? Elsewhere 2010 looks alright, but Yates is a big red warning sign.

 

[postmanhat]

So are the Sky the only team with ex-dopers on the books?

 

[Mellow Velo]

Geert Leinders: So, everyone around here has known he was as dodgy since day one?
Well, I'm no expert of this site's search facility, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that he is........
Mentioned here only in 3 threads started in 2009-2012.
Yet crops up in 26 threads started, post Tour, 2012.

In reality hardly a blip on the Clinic radar..............until now.

 

[Dead Star]

Brailsford will hold a press conferance and hand out brain slugs to the media. The British press will willingly accept them.

The Champs Elysee coverage we didn't see:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W84DLa0CLNE

 

[thehog]

Did UCI bury something for Sky?

The Ferrari connection is going to kill them.

 

[ToreBear]

Yates was there in 2010 though, no? Elsewhere 2010 looks alright, but Yates is a big red warning sign.

Yates? Not in my book. He is a guy with a suspect history, like many other DSs his age. Also he has never been sanctioned for doping(cue skys no doping sanctions policy).

Geert Leinders: So, everyone around here has known he was as dodgy since day one?
Well, I'm no expert of this site's search facility, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that he is........
Mentioned here only in 3 threads started in 2009-2012.
Yet crops up in 26 threads started, post Tour, 2012.

In reality hardly a blip on the Clinic radar..............until now.

Thanks! It appears my theory is strengthened. I think a lot of members should get better at seperating what they know now from what they knew then. It makes it easier to understand the context of decisions carried out at the time.

 

[hrotha]

Geert Leinders: So, everyone around here has known he was as dodgy since day one?
Well, I'm no expert of this site's search facility, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that he is........
Mentioned here only in 3 threads started in 2009-2012.
Yet crops up in 26 threads started, post Tour, 2012.

In reality hardly a blip on the Clinic radar..............until now.

Most of us aren't insiders, and none of us did a background check on him with a view to hiring him. As soon as people started looking into Leinders, they discovered all sorts of ugly stuff in no time.

 

[Benotti69]

So are the Sky the only team with ex-dopers on the books?

No, but they are the team who said they were not going to hire them.

 

[taiwan]

Geert Leinders: So, everyone around here has known he was as dodgy since day one?
Well, I'm no expert of this site's search facility, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that he is........
Mentioned here only in 3 threads started in 2009-2012.
Yet crops up in 26 threads started, post Tour, 2012.

In reality hardly a blip on the Clinic radar..............until now.

Wasn't attention drawn to Leinders when this story came out? As he was one of the doctors unders which juicing was tolerated on Rabobank.

 

[ultimobici]

There are other races with climbing in than the Tour.

Show me one good climbing performance from Wiggins before Giro 2009. Just one.

2005 Tour de L'Avenir. Stage win into Aurillac

Stage 8 - September 8: Aurillac - Aurillac, 159 km

A new page opened in Olympic star's success story

By Jean-François Quénet in Aurillac

The hardest stage of the Tour de l'Avenir has been won by Olympic champion Bradley Wiggins in a fabulous 1-2 with his American teammate Saul Raisin, both riding for French outfit Crédit Agricole. Smiling Dane Lars Ytting Bak kept the yellow jersey, probably for good with only two days to go. Second placed on GC Kai Reus (Rabobank), crashed on the descent of the second climb, and although he got back to the bunch, he pulled out later on the Col d'Aulac.

Wiggins attacked on the first of the seven climbs of the day after only 12 kilometres. "I knew I was going good," he explained. "I just went hard when we hit the first climb and I put pressure on Saul. I didn't think of the win until we were left with the three of us in front. The green jersey Jesus Del Nero was the right man to have with us. When we got five minutes lead at one point, I believed we could make it."

The break even reached 7'25 advantage and Raisin became the virtual yellow jersey for a little while, as did the Kazakh rider Assan Bazayev, who was the strongest member of five man group in between the break and the bunch, together with Frenchmen Arnaud Lesvenan (French national team), Carl Naibo (Bretagne-Jean Floc'h), Maxime Médérel (Auber 93) and Emilien-Benoît Bergès (RAGT).

CSC rode steadily at the front of the bunch. Despite the loss of time trial winner Christian Müller due to diarrhoea the day before, they always kept the situation under control. They caught Bazayev in the last climb, the Pas de Peyrol, whose summit was located 40km away from the finishing line in Aurillac. For a few minutes, Bak lost contact when three riders attacked.

One of them was Belgian hope Maxime Monfort, who is also a qualified journalist. He described the scene: "I wasn't feeling very good at the beginning of the climb but I had better sensations later. Then I followed the Croatian champion [Matija Kvasina of Perutnina Ptuj] who, I think, is the stronger climber in this Tour de l'Avenir. There was an interesting coup to play as we started descending quickly but Bak got back on with Andy Schleck. I believed the yellow jersey is strongly attached to his shoulders and his team is also strong enough to keep the lead. As for myself, I hope to make the top three because there will be some more opportunities in the final two stages."

Kvasina may be the strongest climber but Raisin is another impressive one and he took the polka dot jersey over from Rémi Di Gregorio. "I had a great day," the young man from Dalton, Georgia, commented. "It was our plan to attack this morning but maybe not since so early into the stage." Wiggins added: "I never got bored because it was such a short stage."

The Brit has been a pro for four years now and this is the first time he has won a road race since he joined Française des Jeux in 2002. He was known for his triumphs on the track as a World and Olympic champion, also for winning some time trials or coming close. "I was a bit disappointed to be only second in the time trial here," he said. "But my form is getting better and better. It's a shame that the time trial isn't tomorrow."

There will be another one for Wiggo soon: the World Championship. "This is the big goal for my end of season," he concluded.

Happy?

 

[Mellow Velo]

Wasn't attention drawn to Leinders when this story came out? As he was one of the doctors unders which juicing was tolerated on Rabobank.

Well, as I say, if I'm using the search facility correctly, then no.
Doesn't seem (according to me) to have registered here, in May.
Come late July, it certainly was.

Be helpful if somebody checked.

I admit I knew little about him, but knew well enough about the humanplasma blood bank in Vienna, story.

 

[Dead Star]

No, but they are the team who said they were not going to hire them.

This is now ignored by the fans and we're told Brailsford is being brave and showing zero tolerance. Spun, much?