Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[ferryman]

There must be something coming down the pipe.

No way is someone this panicked about nothing...

I'm thinking UCI complicity in something re SKY.

Mind you, I could be wrong. I am only a bone-idle ****ing ****er ****, afterall...

If the UCI haven't been taking a keen interest in Froome's levels I would be disappointed but not surprised.

 

[thehog]

There must be something coming down the pipe.

No way is someone this panicked about nothing...

I'm thinking UCI complicity in something re SKY.

Mind you, I could be wrong. I am only a bone-idle ****ing ****er ****, afterall...

It's so odd is it not?

It would have been better to lay low. Say nothing. There was no reason to get rid of Julich or Yates because no one was asking questions. Well none of the maintream media anyway. It was the exact opposite. Praise for their cleanliness.

But it's turned into a circus.

I don't know much but Lance and his big mouth is going to drop Wiggins in it.

I smell Ferrari.

 

[Parker]

The Clinic obsession with Sky is because there is a fear that bike races can be won clean.
Clean cycling is what this forum dreads the most. No more moral high ground. No more knowing what the plebs don't.
It's interesting that in this thread Sky's financial advantage is rarely mentioned. They have a huge amount of money and spend it well. In all other team sports it is accepted that the richest generally wins - but somehow that rule is ignored here.

 

[autologous]

It's interesting that in this thread Sky's financial advantage is rarely mentioned. They have a huge amount of money and spend it well.

They have a huge amount of money and *chose* to spend it on dirty f*ks like Leinders, Yates, Julich & Barry. Then they spent a bunch more to pay them off to hopefully keep quiet.

Lance's teams had a huge amount of money too. That's why he could afford Ferrari in a semi-exclusive relationship. Could afford to send a bunch of cash to UCI, too, while riders with less financial backing were busted.

Not sure that Sky's large budget is such a good indicator of their cleanliness.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The Clinic obsession with Sky is because there is a fear that bike races can be won clean.
Clean cycling is what this forum dreads the most. No more moral high ground. No more knowing what the plebs don't.
It's interesting that in this thread Sky's financial advantage is rarely mentioned. They have a huge amount of money and spend it well. In all other team sports it is accepted that the richest generally wins - but somehow that rule is ignored here.

The fanboi obsession with Sky is tenuous because there is a fear that they did not win clean.

Clean cycling is what the forum desires most. No more need for a moral "we are the clean team" high ground PR statements that backfire, rather relentlessly, months later.

No more treating people like short-term memory plebs, who believe anything you tell them.

It's interesting in this thread that Wiggin's salary is rarely mentioned. The fact that he landed a multi-million pound, 4 year contract while riding for Garmin, yet being coached by Rod Ellingworth. How Sky had to pay Garmin out $2M in transfer fees for Brad. How Sky could get Brad to the level of a 4th place finish without considering the very expensive impact this would have on their future contract costs, and went ahead and did it anway. Just. Inexplicable. How despite his 4th in 2009, he plumted to 24th the following year, same coach, better structure, different result.

Apparently insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. But not with Sky...

Brad has a huge amount of money, and ever since he said "I am no longer doing it by the book. I am going to do it my way", his performance has skyrocketed. Big money buys big, silent help.

In all other team sports it is accepted that the best prepared teams win. And by prepared we don't mean trained hard and warmed down a lot.

 

[Parker]

Clean cycling is what the forum desires most.

No it doesn't. What this forum desires the most is scandal. Please stop pretending otherwise. You are either taking yourselves or others for fools.

For example - you yourself have never posted outside the Clinic. This suggests you have no actual interest in actual racing - just doping.

 

[WildspokeJoe]

(SKY)... insists that he (Yates) did not leave due to the team’s zero-tolerance policy against doping. But instead for personal reasons.

Any other time, I'd be fine with teams using this out. I appreciate SKYs zero-tolerance - but if they are to be believed they should be consistent.

If he's leaving because of doping, light him up.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

No it doesn't. What this forum desires the most is scandal. Please stop pretending otherwise. You are either taking yourselves or others for fools.

For example - you yourself have never posted outside the Clinic. This suggests you have no actual interest in actual racing - just doping.

I race in real life. I do not have to justify my interest in racing by posting in the racing thread - that would allow you to then come back with an "all you do is post in the forum, you've never actually raced yourself" type of personal attack.

You're wrong.

I have much interest in racing - mine.

As for the farce that is professional racing, no, watching doped up athletes is where I draw the line. Discussing those doped athletes as if it's something worth discussing - in the forum - is plain silly.

As for posting outside the clinic, yes I most definitely have. That you cannot see that is not my fault.

The sport is broken. I intend to do something to help fix it. Step one is make sure the problems are known about. Step two is come up with solutions.

Step one is getting there, slowly.
Step two is a work in progress.

The irony that you are here debating why I am here is dripping with full ***.

 

[Ferminal]

I remember there was this domestique called George Hincapie who did the sa....oh wait a minute.

Got a laugh from me, thanks.

 

[blackcat]

I'd say that if you have to fire your succes DS, an asistent DS and a trainer you could call it a scandal.

But hey, this happens every year. Uhm no it doesn't... hmmm

Ed Tom Bell: If it ain't, it'll do till the mess gets here.

 

[MatParker117]

The fanboi obsession with Sky is tenuous because there is a fear that they did not win clean.

Clean cycling is what the forum desires most. No more need for a moral "we are the clean team" high ground PR statements that backfire, rather relentlessly, months later.

No more treating people like short-term memory plebs, who believe anything you tell them.

It's interesting in this thread that Wiggin's salary is rarely mentioned. The fact that he landed a multi-million pound, 4 year contract while riding for Garmin, yet being coached by Rod Ellingworth. How Sky had to pay Garmin out $2M in transfer fees for Brad. How Sky could get Brad to the level of a 4th place finish without considering the very expensive impact this would have on their future contract costs, and went ahead and did it anway. Just. Inexplicable. How despite his 4th in 2009, he plumted to 24th the following year, same coach, better structure, different result.

Apparently insanity is doing the same thing and expecting a different result. But not with Sky...

Brad has a huge amount of money, and ever since he said "I am no longer doing it by the book. I am going to do it my way", his performance has skyrocketed. Big money buys big, silent help.

In all other team sports it is accepted that the best prepared teams win. And by prepared we don't mean trained hard and warmed down a lot.

Yes how dare a rider work with his national federations head Race Coach.

 

[Franklin]

Geert Leinders: So, everyone around here has known he was as dodgy since day one?
Well, I'm no expert of this site's search facility, so please correct me if I'm wrong, but it appears that he is........
Mentioned here only in 3 threads started in 2009-2012.
Yet crops up in 26 threads started, post Tour, 2012.

In reality hardly a blip on the Clinic radar..............until now.

And the clinic is the end all how again? Public domain:

Major paper 13 November 2007

http://www.trouw.nl/tr/nl/4324/nieu...aan-het-adres-van-ploegleiding-Rabobank.dhtml

Judicial ruling 2 july 2008

http://www.marinusvromans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Sport-en-Recht-Rasmussen-Rabo.pdf

I remember finding these under a few minutes back when I posted them in the Leinders case. And I just took one paper, could have checked a few others and would have certainly found about the ruling (Rabo is kinda big deal in the Netherlands).

Mellow Velo, an example of simple obscurity: Did you ever hear about Dr. Menuet? Is he still active in the pro peloton? Is his obscurity in contrast by his history?

 

[Franklin]

Clearly a trolling thread.

There's already a SKY thread. There is no doping scandal.

The denial is strong in you

1. There is a scandal, or didn't you check the news about the sacking of the DS who led Wiggo to victory (with an assistent DS and a Trainer).
2. It's most certainly doping related.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Yes how dare a rider work with his national federations head Race Coach.

Way to miss the point.

 

[andy1234]

I race in real life. I do not have to justify my interest in racing by posting in the racing thread - that would allow you to then come back with an "all you do is post in the forum, you've never actually raced yourself" type of personal attack.

You're wrong.

I have much interest in racing - mine.

As for the farce that is professional racing, no, watching doped up athletes is where I draw the line. Discussing those doped athletes as if it's something worth discussing - in the forum - is plain silly.

As for posting outside the clinic, yes I most definitely have. That you cannot see that is not my fault.

The sport is broken. I intend to do something to help fix it. Step one is make sure the problems are known about. Step two is come up with solutions.

Step one is getting there, slowly.
Step two is a work in progress.

The irony that you are here debating why I am here is dripping with full ***.

The clinic is like an abusive partner.
Its other half can do no right and deserves to be beaten within an inch if its life for its failings.

The fact that the other half had those faults from the day they met is irrelevant.
The abuse just shows how much the clinic "loves" its partner.

If the sport ever cleaned its act up, the Clinic Massive would just find other reasons to abuse it, or move somewhere else to justify their rage.

 

[coinneach]

The clinic is like an abusive partner.
Its other half can do no right and deserves to be beaten within an inch if its life for its failings.

The fact that the other half had those faults from the day they met is irrelevant.
The abuse just shows how much the clinic "loves" its partner.

If the sport ever cleaned its act up, the Clinic Massive would just find other reasons to abuse it, or move somewhere else to justify their rage.

+1 "The sport HAS cleaned up its act, the Clinic Massive has found other reasons to abuse it, and has moved on to whoever is winning to justify their rage"

 

[Dear Wiggo]

+1 "The sport HAS cleaned up its act, the Clinic Massive has found other reasons to abuse it, and has moved on to whoever is winning to justify their rage"

The clinic is like an abusive partner.
Its other half can do no right and deserves to be beaten within an inch if its life for its failings.

The fact that the other half had those faults from the day they met is irrelevant.
The abuse just shows how much the clinic "loves" its partner.

If the sport ever cleaned its act up, the Clinic Massive would just find other reasons to abuse it, or move somewhere else to justify their rage.

You guys would have been in your element in 1999. SSDDecade.

 

[andy1234]

You guys would have been in your element in 1999. SSDDecade.

No rebuff would be complete without a reference to LA.....

 

[taiwan]

The Clinic obsession with Sky is because there is a fear that bike races can be won clean.
Clean cycling is what this forum dreads the most. No more moral high ground. No more knowing what the plebs don't.
It's interesting that in this thread Sky's financial advantage is rarely mentioned. They have a huge amount of money and spend it well. In all other team sports it is accepted that the richest generally wins - but somehow that rule is ignored here.

There are 2 possible explanations for the team's success: that the top races can be won clean, or that a fresh whitewash is being applied to cycling. True the clinic is redundant if the first is true, but the second has a precedent - I think it's more likely.

Money: it hardly seems necessary with the USADA document fresh in everyone's mind to say how money an buy sporting success.

Anyway you say the clinic has a bias, but remember the pro road section is actively censored (though not for political reasons) so that drugs cannot be mentioned at all. That's hardly even handed treatment, is it.

 

[ebandit]

ferrari?

It's so odd is it not?

It would have been better to lay low. Say nothing. There was no reason to get rid of Julich or Yates because no one was asking questions. Well none of the maintream media anyway. It was the exact opposite. Praise for their cleanliness.

But it's turned into a circus.

I don't know much but Lance and his big mouth is going to drop Wiggins in it.

I smell Ferrari.

you smell ferrari?..............i smell bs! once again this is mentioned without
detail

lance is not to drop anyone 'in it' he has bunkered down until the media storm passes

johan is the one who may expose...............but i have my doubts....i imagine
he will retire with a 'golden handshake'

 

[Mellow Velo]

And the clinic is the end all how again? Public domain:

Major paper 13 November 2007

http://www.trouw.nl/tr/nl/4324/nieu...aan-het-adres-van-ploegleiding-Rabobank.dhtml

Judicial ruling 2 july 2008

http://www.marinusvromans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Sport-en-Recht-Rasmussen-Rabo.pdf

I remember finding these under a few minutes back when I posted them in the Leinders case. And I just took one paper, could have checked a few others and would have certainly found about the ruling (Rabo is kinda big deal in the Netherlands).

Mellow Velo, an example of simple obscurity: Did you ever hear about Dr. Menuet? Is he still active in the pro peloton? Is his obscurity in contrast by his history?

Won't be online much today, so this'll be it.
I would expect the Dutch to be more clued up on their scandal.
Certainly 2007 was hard to miss.
Was actually going to say as much.
Not sure how many "foreigners" trawl and translate through the Dutch media.

As for the Clinic being the end all, of course it isn't, but in terms of this thread and those related, it is.
I just wondered outside the Netherlands, how common was the common knowledge and when did it become common.
If everyone here was familiar with his work, back in 2007 then clearly Sky caused the trigger effect.

Dr Menuet? Cofidis. Only because he went at the same time.

 

[taiwan]

The clinic is like an abusive partner.
Its other half can do no right and deserves to be beaten within an inch if its life for its failings.

The fact that the other half had those faults from the day they met is irrelevant.
The abuse just shows how much the clinic "loves" its partner.

If the sport ever cleaned its act up, the Clinic Massive would just find other reasons to abuse it, or move somewhere else to justify their rage.

That's a nice analogy. On the other hand it implies that things like widespread PED use, PED use at the very top, corruption of the governing body are not valid reasons to criticise. You can take that position if you want, that cycling has always been that way. You must admit those are low ethical stanards though, in any other setting.

 

[Franklin]

Won't be online much today, so this'll be it.
I would expect the Dutch to be more clued up on their scandal.
Certainly 2007 was hard to miss.
Was actually going to say as much.
Not sure how many "foreigners" trawl and translate through the Dutch media.

Again, it's inconceivable that they didn't check his background, nor that Michael Rasmussen was not mentioned considering (not being sarcastic) he was one of that teams biggest succeses. It's not like they hired someone to wash the team car... they hired someone who was to be responsible for the health of their most valuable assets. And they explicitly picked him for his experience.

Dr Menuet? Cofidis. Only because he went at the same time.

Acually, he's still active

Saur Sojasun.

And that's the point; these guys simply go under the radar even when mentioned in scandals.

 

[Freddythefrog]

No it doesn't. What this forum desires the most is scandal. Please stop pretending otherwise. You are either taking yourselves or others for fools.

For example - you yourself have never posted outside the Clinic. This suggests you have no actual interest in actual racing - just doping.

Parker, I don't visit the clinic for weeks on end. I don't post much. I so much want my sport to be clean, but it is broken and has been for decades. Right now, and for the last 12 or so years, the science of detection has closed the gap to those who abuse, such that with rigorous application of the tools available, most of the cheats could get exposed. The problem why this has not happened has been the Omerta and corruption/lack of will at the top. It does not matter what detection systems are put in place if they send cretins out there to test, who let the riders stay in their rooms, whilst doctors waltz past them with bags of saline and a drip system under their arm or allow National Federations to play fast and loose with the WADA code to get their riders back on their bikes in time for the next big event or get the Gendarmarie pulled when in place to do a bust, nothing is changing - the omerta can stay in place.

Since Festina we have had about as many "The sport is now the cleanest in the World - nobody does more testing than we do, believe us, we like our credibility" stories as "with this latest measure, the Euro has now been saved, and Greece & Spain can return to the good days of endless spending" stories from the EU.

Parker, I only come here when I see a headline that is complete and utter Bo*****s. Sky and their clean rider - we are so professional claptrap is mutually exclusive to employing Shane Sutton, let alone Sean Yates, Leinders and others. I was livid when I saw they had employed Barry. More of the same complete rubbish we have been fed since 1998. Elsewhere I post that the very first race I saw the Sky bus at, I photographed Barry's name that was painted on the side of the bus. One gopping, filthy, dopper - cast iron certainty. And if I knew that, DB and all his "marginal gains", specialist advisers, most certainly did.

There is a rotten core at the heart of this project. Wholly incompatible is running a pro team, in the way they do and having National team staff linked in. UK Sport know that in the same way that the BBC execs knew that Jimmy Saville was dodgy. Cookson is another just looking the other way hoping it all stays in place long enough for him to get where he wants to get to. No conflict of interest - my a*se. I don't care about Sky, but I care that my home Federation, my subs are tangled up in this mess and those tangling it up more each day have as much moral compass as Hein and Pat.

I come here when I see complete garbage. Yates going was a sign. I foolishly had a hope that it might be the Herald of a new future a clear out of all those scum bags. Instead, rather tiredly, just like Barry's departure it is now seen as something they did not want to happen, but an event that was forced unwittingly on the management of BC/Sky. A story leaked to Gallagher that they have been trying to row back on ever since it was announced. If they had run their way, Barry's name would never have been released by USADA and his convenient departure would have been a retirement like we are now asked to consider that of Yates. Nothing would ever have come out, but because it has, we are treated to "this is a purge - we are wholly committed to an ethical sport" rubbish.

I cannot speak for others but I certainly do not visit in a desire for scandal it is a forlorn hope that cycling might turn a corner and here there are a few who see through the Sky pr machine BS - just as so many were calling it right on the Lance BS - for so many years here.

 

[MartinGT]

Parker, I don't visit the clinic for weeks on end. I don't post much. I so much want my sport to be clean, but it is broken and has been for decades. Right now, and for the last 12 or so years, the science of detection has closed the gap to those who abuse, such that with rigorous application of the tools available, most of the cheats could get exposed. The problem why this has not happened has been the Omerta and corruption/lack of will at the top. It does not matter what detection systems are put in place if they send cretins out there to test, who let the riders stay in their rooms, whilst doctors waltz past them with bags of saline and a drip system under their arm or allow National Federations to play fast and loose with the WADA code to get their riders back on their bikes in time for the next big event or get the Gendarmarie pulled when in place to do a bust, nothing is changing - the omerta can stay in place.

Since Festina we have had about as many "The sport is now the cleanest in the World - nobody does more testing than we do, believe us, we like our credibility" stories as "with this latest measure, the Euro has now been saved, and Greece & Spain can return to the good days of endless spending" stories from the EU.

Parker, I only come here when I see a headline that is complete and utter Bo*****s. Sky and their clean rider - we are so professional claptrap is mutually exclusive to employing Shane Sutton, let alone Sean Yates, Leinders and others. I was livid when I saw they had employed Barry. More of the same complete rubbish we have been fed since 1998. Elsewhere I post that the very first race I saw the Sky bus at, I photographed Barry's name that was painted on the side of the bus. One gopping, filthy, dopper - cast iron certainty. And if I knew that, DB and all his "marginal gains", specialist advisers, most certainly did.

There is a rotten core at the heart of this project. Wholly incompatible is running a pro team, in the way they do and having National team staff linked in. UK Sport know that in the same way that the BBC execs knew that Jimmy Saville was dodgy. Cookson is another just looking the other way hoping it all stays in place long enough for him to get where he wants to get to. No conflict of interest - my a*se. I don't care about Sky, but I care that my home Federation, my subs are tangled up in this mess and those tangling it up more each day have as much moral compass as Hein and Pat.

I come here when I see complete garbage. Yates going was a sign. I foolishly had a hope that it might be the Herald of a new future a clear out of all those scum bags. Instead, rather tiredly, just like Barry's departure it is now seen as something they did not want to happen, but an event that was forced unwittingly on the management of BC/Sky. A story leaked to Gallagher that they have been trying to row back on ever since it was announced. If they had run their way, Barry's name would never have been released by USADA and his convenient departure would have been a retirement like we are now asked to consider that of Yates. Nothing would ever have come out, but because it has, we are treated to "this is a purge - we are wholly committed to an ethical sport" rubbish.

I cannot speak for others but I certainly do not visit in a desire for scandal it is a forlorn hope that cycling might turn a corner and here there are a few who see through the Sky pr machine BS - just as so many were calling it right on the Lance BS - for so many years here.

Amen Brother


Ah f@cking MEN!