Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Benotti69]

+1 "The sport HAS cleaned up its act, the Clinic Massive has found other reasons to abuse it, and has moved on to whoever is winning to justify their rage"

Care to illuminat the clinic where the sport has cleaned up?

We know Sky is shedding those who had a past involved in doping!

What about Astana, Saxo, Katusha, OPQS, BMC, Lampre, Liquigas and Movistar to name some big teams with doping pasts and a suspicious present?

 

[sofacycling]

What about Astana, Saxo, Katusha, OPQS, BMC, Lampre, Liquigas and Movistar to name some big teams with doping pasts and a suspicious present?

They are all laughing at the Sky foot shooting .

Murdoch at his very best, publicity when it's good, publicity when it's bad .

 

[FignonLeGrand]

The sport is broken. I intend to do something to help fix it. Step one is make sure the problems are known about. Step two is come up with solutions.

Step one is getting there, slowly.
Step two is a work in progress.

How does gleefully moaning on about Sky or Yates help acheive this? if you want to fix a broken sport surely there must be a bigger picture than berating old pro's and teams you dont like?

Be honest there is no step 2 is there, you dont seem to be able to be proactive all you write is reactive hyperbole.

The irony that you are here debating why I am here is dripping with full ***.

Go and read a definition of irony, dictionaries are currently being updated to cite your last post. You call someone a *** in a sentence that is not even intelligible. I assume you are 14 calling someone a ***........... Im offended I have been baited to reply to you

 

[King Of The Wolds]

No it doesn't. What this forum desires the most is scandal. Please stop pretending otherwise. You are either taking yourselves or others for fools.

For example - you yourself have never posted outside the Clinic. This suggests you have no actual interest in actual racing - just doping.

Somewhere in between.

I can't believe there's anybody here who isn't, or at least wasn't at some point, in love with cycling, and had a desire at some point to see a cleaner sport.

The best and most revered poster on this forum is an absolute and indisputable cycling nut - and produced some tremendous investigative work against Armstrong over the years. Detailed, insightful and accurate.

That said, the modus operandi of a core group is to throw as much s*** as possible and see what sticks. And not much does. See this thread. There's some questions which Sky need to be called out against, but much of the dot joining and amateur psychology is laughable at best.

People wouldn't come back here if they didn't enjoy the thrill of the chase. And if most looked themselves in the mirror and were honest, I think they'd have to agree that they enjoy that more than they would achieving the ultimate, and impossible, aim.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

How does gleefully moaning on about Sky or Yates help acheive this? if you want to fix a broken sport surely there must be a bigger picture than berating old pro's and teams you dont like?

Gleefully moaning - how creative.

Step one is out the dopers. Discussing the unlikelihood of Wiggins doing anything he has based on 4km results in a tiny pond of a sport noone cares about is part of step one. Point to one post where I have moaned about Yates and I'll send you $$ for a drink of your choice. Good luck with that.

Be honest there is no step 2 is there, you dont seem to be able to be proactive all you write is reactive hyperbole.

You write, in reaction to what I have posted. Irony again. Just as you accept Sky claiming they are clean, you are just going to have to accept I am working on step 2.

Hint: I agree with modifying Grand Tours. Many here do not. There's a thread on it. Instead of moaning gleefully at someone who you claim is moaning gleefully, go read the thread where someone tried to be constructive and I agreed with them. I don't see too much constructive posting by the Sky fanbois.

Go and read a definition of irony, dictionaries are currently being updated to cite your last post. You call someone a *** in a sentence that is not even intelligible. I assume you are 14 calling someone a ***........... Im offended I have been baited to reply to you

If I was going to call a person a ***, I would simply say that - you are ***.

What I did was suggest that the irony of someone doing exactly what he claimed me to be doing as dripping with full ***. A reference to a movie. Do a search on youtube for "full ***" so you can understand the reference. You should never go full ***.

 

[badboygolf16v]

gleefully moaning

Collective 'gleeful moaning' helped to get rid of Leinders. Can you explain how that is a bad thing?

 

[MartinGT]

Decent Stuff from Inner Ring

http://inrng.com/2012/10/sean-yates-sky-versus-others/#more-11594

 

[JimmyFingers]

Decent Stuff from Inner Ring

http://inrng.com/2012/10/sean-yates-sky-versus-others/#more-11594

Reasoned and well-balanced. Won't find much favour here

 

[MartinGT]

I think it would tbh.

It doesnt discuss how dodgy Froome, Wiggins et al are which is what mostly is discussed here.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I think it would tbh.

It doesnt discuss how dodgy Froome, Wiggins et al are which is what mostly is discussed here.

It doesn't accuse Sky of being the second coming of USPS and doing team-wide doping, as is the prevalent opinion among many here, this is true.

It asks good questions, particularly the deafening silence from the majority of pro-tour teams. You get the feeling they are just waiting for the storm to blow over, hoping their past doesn't get scrutinised too closely before they are able to carry on as before. At least Sky are trying to do something, misguided or not.

very glad to see the back of Yates anyway.

 

[JimmyFingers]

De Jong admitted taking a banned substance as a rider, hence his exit from Sky. Not sure that has been reported officially yet, but Sky have just released a statement

 

[ToreBear]

Steven de Jongh has left Team Sky following three seasons as Sports Director.

After the team reaffirmed its position on anti-doping, Steven disclosed that he had taken a banned substance earlier in his career as a professional rider.


Team Principal Dave Brailsford said:


“There’s no doubt about Steven’s work with us or his approach. He’s been a highly-valued Sports Director and colleague over three seasons.


“Steven deserves our respect for the courage he’s shown in being honest about the past and it’s right that we do our best to support him.


“He has our best wishes for the next step in his career.”

http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,17553_8208971,00.html


Nice press release. Sounds like the team will do all they can to support him.

I wonder how this will play out in the Netherlands?

 

[the sceptic]

So whats up with this team sky panic? Surely letting go of all these people is a bad pr move. Would have been much better to just keep quiet about it. The public probably didnt even know that this guy worked for team sky.

 

[ToreBear]

So whats up with this team sky panic? Surely letting go of all these people is a bad pr move. Would have been much better to just keep quiet about it. The public probably didnt even know that this guy worked for team sky.

It's better to get everything out at once. If you remove one, then wait for the media to ask questions about the next one and so on, you are in trouble.

Better to take the storm head on in the off season.

 

[maltiv]

I guess all the critics who said that the anti-doping contract was just a meaningless PR move and that it just promoted Omerta are silenced now. Including myself. Wonder how they made them come forward, I guess the financial parachute was enormous

Sky are now down to having one guy on the team (Rogers) who can be directly connected to doping (no, great performances are not a direct link). That places them ahead of pretty much every other team in that aspect, except from maybe Argos and FDJ. It certainly seems like they are trying to do an effort at least.

Who knows, perhaps they doped in 2012 and now decided to quit after the Armstrong-scandal. Or they want to continue doping, but remove obvious links to silence critics...Perhaps they've even always been clean, but have just failed really hard on the PR department...Nevertheless, their performance in 2013 should be a good indication. If they go back to 2010 mode, i.e. the brits start getting dropped on every climb again and only the most naturally talented get results (like Henao, Uran, EBH etc) then we'll know what happened

 

[skimazk]

i'm surprised that servais knaven (their other dutch DS) is still working for sky to be honest. The doping rumours around him have been stronger than those surrounding the jongh. Both were part of the TVM team that got raided in 1998 in which the docter, DS and soigneur got arrested and convicted by the french police after they found a complete pharmacy in a team car (104 ampules of EPO amongst other things.) As there was no test for EPO in those days all the riders walked free despite many if not all of them being dragged by police to the local hospital for blood, hair and urine samples.

Trouw, one of the leading newspapers in the netherlands reported in 2001 that traces of EPO had been found in the samples of the following cyclists: Jeroen Blijlevens, Servais Knaven, Bart Voskamp and russian Sergei Oetsjakov. The test however had not been validated as a testmethod so neither UCI or IOC imposed sanctions.

Apart from the 104 ampules of EPO french police found the following in the docters suitcase: corticoïed ACTH, caffeïnetablets and ventoline

 

[skimazk]

another option is that they don't want to sack them all at once, but are dripping the news...

 

[the sceptic]

It's better to get everything out at once. If you remove one, then wait for the media to ask questions about the next one and so on, you are in trouble.

Better to take the storm head on in the off season.

No one was asking any questions. Team sky were clean and Wiggo had saved cycling. They are shooting themselves in the foot with this.

 

[skimazk]

the funny thing is, that as the UCI hasn't imposed new rules (only investigating methods of imposing) all these staffers are free to continue working in cycling for other teams like Garmin (they seem to love confessed dopers there), Astana etc.

 

[skimazk]

Statement Steven de Jongh
2012-10-29 18:53:00
With the conversations happening in Team Sky it was time to be honest. This was the moment to talk. Sure I could have kept my mouth shut, but it was the time to admit my mistakes and the chance for me to talk openly.

I took EPO in 1998-2000 on a few occasions. I was a young rider, the opportunity was there and it was a huge challenge to stay away. I took a product that was easy to get and I knew it couldn’t be detected. There was no pressure from team Directors or the Doctors. It was my own decision. I believe that everyone has to take responsibility for their own choices and I made the wrong ones that time.

And know all these years later. I couldn’t just keep quiet, sign up and move on. I wanted to stop the lies and after three years working with this team I didn’t want a price to be paid later.

I’ve been shocked by the rumours and stories of doping programmes in cycling lately. I never saw anything like that. Nobody forced me.

I stopped because it was wrong and it wasn’t worth the risk - to my health, to the family I wanted. It also didn’t change me into a TDF winner. The years after when I didn’t dope were some times hard. But slowly cycling was getting better and better and I managed to win races. I think the whereabouts system and biological passport where a great thing for the sport.

My mistake was more twelve years ago, but now I have to move on. I want to stay in this sport but, sadly, I know that it can’t be with Team Sky. It’s hard to leave Team Sky but there was no other option. People might accept and forgive if we can only tell them what happened. I truly regret what I did. I also believe it’s important that if you make a mistake you can still get a second chance in life.

I learned a lot the last three years and had some great staff surrounding me. We were very ambitious when we came into the sport. And I am proud I was a part of that building process . With the great steps we’re now taking in cycling there is a better chance than ever to compete in a clean sport. I’m certainly committed to that and everybody I worked with can assure you I promote a clean sport.

At the moment I am having a lot of support from my girlfriend, family and friends. For them this came as a big shock as well. I had always their confidence and have to re-establish /regain that. I also want to prove my girlfriend and all our kids I still can still give them a future after this difficult decision. And it would be regretful if a rookie mistake of twelve years ago would make working in cycling impossible. Hopefully the next time I’m in the news is something good to tell about my future in cycling. I truly believe I can play a part in the future to move cycling to a even cleaner sport.

 

[the sceptic]

classic. He was young and stupid and stopped after a few years. It all happened a long time ago. He doped on his own and didnt see anything.

 

[ToreBear]

i'm surprised that servais knaven (their other dutch DS) is still working for sky to be honest. The doping rumours around him have been stronger than those surrounding the jongh. Both were part of the TVM team that got raided in 1998 in which the docter, DS and soigneur got arrested and convicted by the french police after they found a complete pharmacy in a team car (104 ampules of EPO amongst other things.) As there was no test for EPO in those days all the riders walked free despite many if not all of them being dragged by police to the local hospital for blood, hair and urine samples.

De Volkskrant, one of the leading newspapers in the netherlands reported in 2001 that traces of EPO had been found in the samples of the following cyclists: Jeroen Blijlevens, Servais Knaven, Bart Voskamp and russian Sergei Oetsjakov. The test however had not been validated as a testmethod so neither UCI or IOC imposed sanctions.

Apart from the 104 ampules of EPO french police found the following in the docters suitcase: corticoïed ACTH, caffeïnetablets and ventoline

Thanks, the epo test used doesn't sound like the one we are used to hearing about.

As for Knaven, it could be he simply lied, or that he never doped. I find it strange that de Jongh would admit and not Knaven. I would imagine the two of them together talking would be the way to give each other support to come clean about their past.

another option is that they don't want to sack them all at once, but are dripping the news...

I'm not sure that is such a good PR strategy. It could be that it's a time consuming process. Perhaps some of the guys need more time to think before they are ready to talk.

Then there are also issues regarding things that should be told to the authorities.

 

[skimazk]

or determining the size of the golden parachute / fix a spot for them with another team

 

[ToreBear]

Statement Steven de Jongh
2012-10-29 18:53:00
With the conversations happening in Team Sky it was time to be honest. This was the moment to talk. Sure I could have kept my mouth shut, but it was the time to admit my mistakes and the chance for me to talk openly.

I took EPO in 1998-2000 on a few occasions. I was a young rider, the opportunity was there and it was a huge challenge to stay away. I took a product that was easy to get and I knew it couldn’t be detected. There was no pressure from team Directors or the Doctors. It was my own decision. I believe that everyone has to take responsibility for their own choices and I made the wrong ones that time.

And know all these years later. I couldn’t just keep quiet, sign up and move on. I wanted to stop the lies and after three years working with this team I didn’t want a price to be paid later.

I’ve been shocked by the rumours and stories of doping programmes in cycling lately. I never saw anything like that. Nobody forced me.

I stopped because it was wrong and it wasn’t worth the risk - to my health, to the family I wanted. It also didn’t change me into a TDF winner. The years after when I didn’t dope were some times hard. But slowly cycling was getting better and better and I managed to win races. I think the whereabouts system and biological passport where a great thing for the sport.

My mistake was more twelve years ago, but now I have to move on. I want to stay in this sport but, sadly, I know that it can’t be with Team Sky. It’s hard to leave Team Sky but there was no other option. People might accept and forgive if we can only tell them what happened. I truly regret what I did. I also believe it’s important that if you make a mistake you can still get a second chance in life.

I learned a lot the last three years and had some great staff surrounding me. We were very ambitious when we came into the sport. And I am proud I was a part of that building process . With the great steps we’re now taking in cycling there is a better chance than ever to compete in a clean sport. I’m certainly committed to that and everybody I worked with can assure you I promote a clean sport.

At the moment I am having a lot of support from my girlfriend, family and friends. For them this came as a big shock as well. I had always their confidence and have to re-establish /regain that. I also want to prove my girlfriend and all our kids I still can still give them a future after this difficult decision. And it would be regretful if a rookie mistake of twelve years ago would make working in cycling impossible. Hopefully the next time I’m in the news is something good to tell about my future in cycling. I truly believe I can play a part in the future to move cycling to a even cleaner sport.

Thanks!

You should start a Steven de Jongh thread.

I think it was as good a confession as can be expected given he wants to continue in cycling. Those who are likely to hire might not like him naming them too.

I hope he gets a new job quickly.

 

[ToreBear]

No one was asking any questions. Team sky were clean and Wiggo had saved cycling. They are shooting themselves in the foot with this.

I disagree. People were asking questions, even more after Barry and the USADA report.