Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Tinman]

A lot of others may buy the transformation, but like I said about Froome's bilharzia, find the timing of it a bit convenient - after all, with the UCI openly stating that the catching-on of cycling in Britain is a good thing, all of a sudden these super-talents start appearing from out of nowhere!

You mentioned the bio passport fleetingly. Indeed the best way to beat this is to have no historical baseline ie. come from nowhere (bilharzia, mononucleosis, etc), and have consistently maximized blood values for a short but highly successful career...

 

[Avoriaz]

The snide accusations began ...etc....that the questions were raised, so at least he's more self-aware than Wiggins.

LS, that was a great, well thought out and reasoned post

 

[JimmyFingers]

Well it seems he is already damned really doesn't it. Lock him up and throw away the key.

I didn't like this:

A lot of others may buy the transformation, but like I said about Froome's bilharzia, find the timing of it a bit convenient - after all, with the UCI openly stating that the catching-on of cycling in Britain is a good thing, all of a sudden these super-talents start appearing from out of nowhere!

Froome isn't from Britain as we all now, although he has been carrying the passport for 3 or four years. And we have been developing cycling talent for many years now, in case you missed it. Contrary to popular belief we aren't developing these riders in the lab, Frankenstein's monster-esque, hiding them away before unleashing them on the poor, unsuspecting continental riders and smashing them all over the place.

Although there's a fair few that want to believe that of Froome.

Personally I'll reserve judgement on JTL but lets face it, the only way plenty of people here will believe he's clean is if he wins eff all. It's a lovely world.

 

[Avoriaz]

...but lets face it, the only way plenty of people here will believe he's clean is if he wins eff all.

Sad but true

 

[Spencer the Half Wit]

Might actually have to fork out for the Sunday Times this week, as it's behind a paywall.

http://twitter.com/DavidWalshST

 

[JimmyFingers]

David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST
Yesterday's meeting with Dave Brailsford? We spoke for 4 hours; he is bright, interesting and, I believe, committed to clean programme

Cat among the pigeons, although I await the cries of 'he's on Murdoch's payroll'

 

[Mellow Velo]

Might actually have to fork out for the Sunday Times this week, as it's behind a paywall.

http://twitter.com/DavidWalshST

Their guru's gone off script, so it's gone strangely quiet around here............
Might as well get those quotes out there, in case
they vanish, like posts do around here:

@DavidWalshST - Yesterday's meeting with Dave Brailsford? We spoke for 4 hours;he is bright, interesting and, I believe, committed to clean programme.

@DavidWalshST - The whole Leinders affair was shocking. He talked about it at length, pointed out his mistake and his willingness to explain was admirable.

Must be like buses, nothing then 2 at once.

Certainly not what I'd expected him to say.
I'm sure that someone will soon be along with a theory to fit..........well squeeze into, maybe.

 

[RownhamHill]

Originally Posted by RownhamHill
Finally, in the interests of constructive conversation. Can someone clarify the details of Italian ban of Ferrari in 2004. . .

Ferrari was banned from acting as a doctor, pharmacist or physician. Rogers therefore did not per se commit an offence by using him, at least to the extent mentioned by Sinkewitz or Leipheimer, as Ferrari was not banned from acting as a sporting coach.

However, if I was going to put together a team that was based around the principle of not having anybody with a connection to doping... training with a banned doctor who just happens to be one of the most notorious doping docs in the history of the sport... that might be considered, in my personal opinion, a connection to doping. Team Sky may feel that it is sufficiently distant under the six-degrees-of-separation approach... but in my opinion it is not. As previously stated, not enough to fire him for, but enough to say that hiring him was a mistake from the zero-tolerance point of view.

Thanks for the clarification, appreciated!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Well it seems he is already damned really doesn't it. Lock him up and throw away the key.

I didn't like this:



Froome isn't from Britain as we all now, although he has been carrying the passport for 3 or four years. And we have been developing cycling talent for many years now, in case you missed it. Contrary to popular belief we aren't developing these riders in the lab, Frankenstein's monster-esque, hiding them away before unleashing them on the poor, unsuspecting continental riders and smashing them all over the place.

Although there's a fair few that want to believe that of Froome.

Personally I'll reserve judgement on JTL but lets face it, the only way plenty of people here will believe he's clean is if he wins eff all. It's a lovely world.

Froome and Tiernan-Locke have both had very sudden and very marked improvements. Neither of them were safely esconced in the British Cycling umbrella that has been developing the vast majority of that cycling talent.

I was more pointing out that whether their transformations are the result of doping or not, we're being asked to swallow ever more fanciful justifications of prior performances as evidence that it isn't surprising. Those who think they're dopers often call for the riders' heads before they have a chance to explain themselves; but it's not any less ridiculous to be clinging to results like being 9th in an uphill sprint in the Brixia Tour or winning a stage of a .2-rated Spanish race mostly for Continental Pros and amateurs as justification that a guy has always shown promise... unless they're about 20.

Tiernan-Locke has some pretty clear and justifiable (non-doping) reasons for late blooming. But let's not pretend his breakout wasn't really, genuinely surprising and people weren't scrambling to find the results that would justify saying that it wasn't.

 

[bobbins]

David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST
Yesterday's meeting with Dave Brailsford? We spoke for 4 hours; he is bright, interesting and, I believe, committed to clean programme

Cat among the pigeons, although I await the cries of 'he's on Murdoch's payroll'

There is no way that any NI paper will print anything untoward about Team Sky. In the same way that there was very little media interest in the other sports involved in Puerto, NI won't look into anything dodgy with regards to the team.

This combined with the growing number of 'tame' cycling journos will keep Sky out of the headlines.

Best sponsor ever!

 

[JimmyFingers]

There is no way that any NI paper will print anything untoward about Team Sky. In the same way that there was very little media interest in the other sports involved in Puerto, NI won't look into anything dodgy with regards to the team.

This combined with the growing number of 'tame' cycling journos will keep Sky out of the headlines.

Best sponsor ever!

Brilliant, as predicted. You do know you're calling David Walsh a 'tame' journalist, don't you?

 

[JimmyFingers]

Froome and Tiernan-Locke have both had very sudden and very marked improvements. Neither of them were safely esconced in the British Cycling umbrella that has been developing the vast majority of that cycling talent.

I was more pointing out that whether their transformations are the result of doping or not, we're being asked to swallow ever more fanciful justifications of prior performances as evidence that it isn't surprising. Those who think they're dopers often call for the riders' heads before they have a chance to explain themselves; but it's not any less ridiculous to be clinging to results like being 9th in an uphill sprint in the Brixia Tour or winning a stage of a .2-rated Spanish race mostly for Continental Pros and amateurs as justification that a guy has always shown promise... unless they're about 20.

Tiernan-Locke has some pretty clear and justifiable (non-doping) reasons for late blooming. But let's not pretend his breakout wasn't really, genuinely surprising and people weren't scrambling to find the results that would justify saying that it wasn't.

Good points of course, but I just feel its a real shame that he is condemned before his pro career has really taken off.

On a side note this thread went quiet quickly

 

[coinneach]

There is no way that any NI paper will print anything untoward about Team Sky. In the same way that there was very little media interest in the other sports involved in Puerto, NI won't look into anything dodgy with regards to the team.

This combined with the growing number of 'tame' cycling journos will keep Sky out of the headlines.

Best sponsor ever!

Best sponsor would keep them IN the headlines.
But irrespective of whether it fits the News International agenda, SURELY David Walsh has earned the right for ALL clinic posters to respect his professionalism and independence. Doesn't mean he can't ever be fooled, but lets wait till we read the article with open minds, shall we?

 

[Mellow Velo]

There is no way that any NI paper will print anything untoward about Team Sky. In the same way that there was very little media interest in the other sports involved in Puerto, NI won't look into anything dodgy with regards to the team.

This combined with the growing number of 'tame' cycling journos will keep Sky out of the headlines.

Best sponsor ever!

In 24 hours, you have shifted Mr Walsh from chief anti-doping crusader, to tame Sky journalist.
This is the best anybody can come up with?
Weak............very, very weak.
Still, it's better than hiding in a cave somewhere, waiting for the nuclear dust to settle.

 

[Tinman]

the only way plenty of people here will believe he's clean is if he wins eff all. It's a lovely world.

Releasing detailed blood data will dispel a lot of rumors quickly, if indeed the perfomances are 'Normal'. Combine that with transparency/comments on discrepancies (overtraining, illness, etc) and there is little left for the rumor mill to go on. So relatively easy for the rider/team community to get out of this mess they have created for themselves, if they really wanted to...

 

[Dear Wiggo]

In 24 hours, you have shifted Mr Walsh from chief anti-doping crusader, to tame Sky journalist.

Sounds very similar to the progression Gallagher made, as outlined elsewhere by Freddy The Frog.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Releasing detailed blood data will dispel a lot of rumors quickly, if indeed the perfomances are 'Normal'. Combine that with transparency/comments on discrepancies (overtraining, illness, etc) and there is little left for the rumor mill to go on. So relatively easy for the rider/team community to get out of this mess they have created for themselves, if they really wanted to...

Detailed blood data for who to analyse exactly? Trial by internet? Who here in the clinic is qualified to analyse that data, and declare someone clean?

What we need is independent, expert testing we can trust rather than internet forum dissecting data they don't fully understand.

As for a mess, I don't think they see it that way, particularly if they are doing clean. If you are confident in your innocence then Twitter users and internet forums are of little consequence

 

[Mellow Velo]

Sounds very similar to the progression Gallagher made, as outlined elsewhere by Freddy The Frog.

Any chance of a link?

 

[JimmyFingers]

so what line are we taking, that Walsh has been bought?

 

[Avoriaz]

so what line are we taking, that Walsh has been bought?

Obi Wan Brailsford pulled a Jedi mind trick

 

[martinvickers]

Obi Wan Brailsford pulled a Jedi mind trick

"You don't need to see his blood passport."....
"We don't need to see his blood passport"

"These aren't the cyclists you're looking for".....
"These aren't the cyclists we're looking for "

"Move along".....
"Move along"

 

[MartinGT]

"You don't need to see his blood passport."....
"We don't need to see his blood passport"

"These aren't the cyclists you're looking for".....
"These aren't the cyclists we're looking for "

"Move along".....
"Move along"

LOL

10 char

 

[JimmyFingers]

"You don't need to see his blood passport."....
"We don't need to see his blood passport"

"These aren't the cyclists you're looking for".....
"These aren't the cyclists we're looking for "

"Move along".....
"Move along"

+1 I can picture it....

 

[martinvickers]

Now the question is, who is Darth Vader?

 

[Velo1ticker]

Now the question is, who is Darth Vader?

Michele Bartoli?