Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Froome19]

Come on Froome19.

The Sky gang were telling us about the ‘amazing results’ achieved in Tenerife and now its dropped? What the?

Yates was telling us that training was harder than racing in Tenerife and now dropped.

Many here were not happy for the ZT team to be going to the dopers paradise and we were all assured it was just coincidence and it has “nice weather”.

And now dropped?

Even the most ardent Sky fan must be confused.

Dropped.. well only reason is because of people like you Hog who have cast suspicion over the place. Good going Hog..

Though admittedly their use of both Mallorca and Tenerife always seemed a bit puzzling to me..

 

[thehog]

Dropped.. well only reason is because of people like you Hog who have cast suspicion over the place. Good going Hog..

Though admittedly their use of both Mallorca and Tenerife always seemed a bit puzzling to me..

If I had a hand in Sky dropping Tenerife then my work is done.

Everyone knows the history of Tenerife. Better they get themselves into Nice to raise less suspicion.

Sky are a funny bunch. They jump up and down about the “amazing results” and that Lance used Tenerife as his training ground, and training is harder than racing etc etc etc. then it drops with the barest of mentions.

Sky were very happy to tell us about “marginal gains” but they’re not so good at telling us about the spate of “clean up” they’ve been doing of late.

It’s all very strange.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Yates was telling us that training was harder than racing in Tenerife and now dropped.

.

Where have Sky confirmed that they aren't going to Tenerife?

 

[thehog]

Where have Sky confirmed that they aren't going to Tenerife?

Matt Parker confirmed on this very forum along with and "as if by magic" - more tangible!:

Team Sky, along with many other professional teams, currently use the Spanish islands of Mallorca and Tenerife for training camps, but Brailsford wants something more central and tangible.

A possible option would be to base the team around a well-situated city like Girona, in Spain, where many overseas cyclists spend their seasons there already.

The French city of Nice is perhaps a more likely choice for a Team Sky base, as it is close to Monaco, already home to the team's probable next Tour de France leader Chris Froome and many other top cyclists.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20535637

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Though admittedly their use of both Mallorca and Tenerife always seemed a bit puzzling to me..

It's fairly simple. Mallorca in Dec and Jan is fine. Warm and dry enough and, given that early winter training doesn't involve serious climbing at significant altitudes, then risk of snow either. Late winter and early spring, when the serious climbing starts, Tenerife is perfect for the reasons I and other have pointed out ad infinitum on this and other threads.

 

[King Of The Wolds]

Matt Parker confirmed on this very forum along with and "as if by magic" - more tangible!:




http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cycling/20535637

As I thought then. Nobody at Sky have confirmed that they aren't going to Tenerife. I fully expect them to go.

Having a central training base for generic requirements and then using other locations for more specific training needs is what I imagine will happen, just as the track team do - Manchester usually, but taking advantage of the southern hemisphere summer at the moment .

 

[thehog]

Tenerife is perfect for the reasons I and other have pointed out ad infinitum on this and other threads.

And now its been dropped

So much for perfect

 

[Chaddy]

Team Sky, along with many other professional teams

Interesting.

 

[thehog]

As I thought then. Nobody at Sky have confirmed that they aren't going to Tenerife. I fully expect them to go.

Having a central training base for generic requirements and then using other locations for more specific training needs is what I imagine will happen, just as the track team do - Manchester usually, but taking advantage of the southern hemisphere summer at the moment .

They're not going as its been confirmed by Sky on this very forum. Or is that not good enough?

 

[Mellow Velo]

They're not going as its been confirmed by Sky on this very forum. Or is that not good enough?

No Hog. It hasn't been confirmed.
I find it ironic that suddenly you believe in the word of Sky.
That's a first!
The BBC article, talks about a more Central European base in the future, as opposed to Manchester.
Possibly, this means they will no longer have a Tenerife train camp, but it by no means confirms this as fact.
It's just as easy to fly to Tenerife from Girona, as it is from Manchester.

Besides, I thought Tenerife was used by a "select group" of riders seeking "specialist" training.
Nothing to say that won't continue, while the rest use this central base.
Will it be even up and running in time for 2013?


Once again you are getting ahead of the truth and trying to force others to follow suit.

Slow down. All will be revealed in the new year.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

So, Armstrong's "everyone did it" defense is raised from the dead once more?

Well in Lance's day, pretty much everyone was doing it! It doesn't mean that anyone's doping during that era was justified though. It just means that the game in that era wasn't "cycling" but "cycling whilst as heavily doped as you could be".

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Do you see how serpentine the logic becomes defending your position? It's a weak defense.

I'm not defending Sky. Heros and favourites come and go. Old Father Time waits for no-one. My current favourites will be gone due to age in fives years even if they don't go due to doping sooner.

I was just pointing out that it's highly unlikely that it's only Sky that are doping but it's only Sky that seem to be doing anything to shore up their defences against greater scrutiny in the post USADA era.

 

[Le Baroudeur]

Come on Froome19.

The Sky gang were telling us about the ‘amazing results’ achieved in Tenerife and now its dropped? What the?

Yates was telling us that training was harder than racing in Tenerife and now dropped.

Many here were not happy for the ZT team to be going to the dopers paradise and we were all assured it was just coincidence and it has “nice weather”.

And now dropped?

Even the most ardent Sky fan must be confused.

I think Tenerife is a huge red herring and a poor argument being that what counts is with whom rather than where, and 'whom' is mobile... frankly I find it far more ethical to train in a natural environment at altitude, than to use artificial ones like altitude tents etc. which is presumably what they will use now. I seem to recall Brad had an altitude tent in his house? If the intention is to cheat, that can happen anywhere. If anything we should be encouraging riders to train without artificial aids and as such use natural aids like Tenerife if appropriate.

The fact that Team Sky is so reactionary to public opinion is an issue, and a reason why Sky make a poor sponsor for sport, reflecting how this sponsor behaves in its own industry. Sensational, reactionary, accusatory, unethical, imoral, and blame shifting. However, I think it's important to seperate the flawed Team PR actions from the teams sporting methodology. There are plenty of other points regarding Team Sky that raise suspicion without bringing geography and terrain into it?

 

[thehog]

I think Tenerife is a huge red herring and a poor argument being that what counts is with whom rather than where, and 'whom' is mobile... frankly I find it far more ethical to train in a natural environment at altitude, than to use artificial ones like altitude tents etc. which is presumably what they will use now. I seem to recall Brad had an altitude tent in his house? If the intention is to cheat, that can happen anywhere. If anything we should be encouraging riders to train without artificial aids and as such use natural aids like Tenerife if appropriate.

The fact that Team Sky is so reactionary to public opinion is an issue, and a reason why Sky make a poor sponsor for sport, reflecting how this sponsor behaves in its own industry. Sensational, reactionary, accusatory, unethical, imoral, and blame shifting. However, I think it's important to seperate the flawed Team PR actions from the teams sporting methodology. There are plenty of other points regarding Team Sky that raise suspicion without bringing geography and terrain into it?

Yates is a red herring. Rogers is a red herring. Tenerife is a red herring. Froome going intergalactic is a red herring. Wiggins is a red herring. Punching 450w day after day after day, stage after stage after stage is a red herring.

It's all just one big red herring.

 

[Le Baroudeur]

Yates is a red herring. Rogers is a red herring. Tenerife is a red herring. Froome going intergalactic is a red herring. Wiggins is a red herring. Punching 450w day after day after day, stage after stage after stage is a red herring.

It's all just one big red herring.

Let me know when you're done obfuscating my point, and feel like offering up a response that illustrates you read the post.

I'm highly sceptical about the team.

 

[Avoriaz]

They're not going as its been confirmed by Sky on this very forum. Or is that not good enough?

No, it hasn't. It was said by a poster called Matt Parker. He shares a name with someone from BC, but admitted himself on here he is a waiter (or something) from Doncaster and not the Matt Parker you want us to think. He posted a link to the BBC where Brailsford mentions a central base.

Sky are talking about a central base - currently in Manchester. Tenerife is a training site not a base. Brailsofrd is big on bases, and has often talked about a hub for cycling teams as somewhere fans can associate with a team (like football or rugby teams as an example). So I don't think Girona or Nice, and Tenerife or Mallorca, are mutually exclusive. I may be wrong, but nothing has been posted yet which definitively says Sky won't be returning to Tenerife

 

[Parker]

No, it hasn't. It was said by a poster called Matt Parker. He shares a name with someone from BC, but admitted himself on here he is a waiter (or something) from Doncaster and not the Matt Parker you want us to think

I can 'confirm' that they will be returning to Tenerife. I, however, am also not that Matt Parker (who has gone to rugby anyway). My real name isn't even Parker.

 

[Tinman]

The reason Brailsford is bringing this topic to the media and calling for a "formal high altitude training base" is that to the average fan rumors of "doping camps" in suspect locations at unpredictable times only fuels doping speculation that he can ill afford.

For me, whether Tenerife was/is a blood bag prep location with some training added on is neither here nor there. There are many locations that will do that, Tenerife not unique for any particular reason. But have these camps been used for bag preps, for sure they have. For all the reasons discussed here ad nauseam.

 

[ferryman]

I can 'confirm' that they will be returning to Tenerife. I, however, am also not that Matt Parker (who has gone to rugby anyway). My real name isn't even Parker.

Confirm away. Or do you not want to reveale your sources.

 

[Parker]

The reason Brailsford is bringing this topic to the media and calling for a "formal high altitude training base" is that to the average fan rumors of "doping camps" in suspect locations at unpredictable times only fuels doping speculation that he can ill afford.

It's not 'average fan rumours', it's just a small handful of oddities who he won't care about (and nor will anyone else).

What he wants to do is try and replicate what BC has in Manchester - a central base where the majority of riders live so that they can train together and be personally coached for most of the year.

 

[Parker]

Confirm away. Or do you not want to reveale your sources.

Has sarcasm not reached Fife yet?

(And why don't you ask others to reveal their sources - moderators can't play favourites)

 

[Benotti69]

It's not 'average fan rumours', it's just a small handful of oddities who he won't care about (and nor will anyone else).

What he wants to do is try and replicate what BC has in Manchester - a central base where the majority of riders live so that they can train together and be personally coached for most of the year.

Brailsford cared enough to rid sky of anyone with a known doping past.

As to no one else caring, plenty in this thread caring vociferously.

 

[Parker]

Brailsford cared enough to rid sky of anyone with a known doping past.

As to no one else caring, plenty in this thread caring vociferously.

Point 1: Brailsford isn't really bothered if someone has doped in the past just as long as they're not doing it now - he's picked Millar for GB every year since his ban was up. It's the sponsors/owners that insist on it - something that was renewed when Barry was found to be a doper and they wanted bit more diligence to the policy. Brailsford is ultimately just an employee.

Point 2: the 'plenty' on this thread amounts to about half a dozen people who think Tenerife is any issue. In the wide world of cycling, that's not many.

 

[ferryman]

Has sarcasm not reached Fife yet?

(And why don't you ask others to reveal their sources - moderators can't play favourites)

Nothing has reached Fife, we are still waiting on water and electricity.

Sarcasm might catch up.

My favourites, who ever they are, might have to wait in the cold until then.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Come on Froome19.

......
Even the most ardent Sky fan must be confused.

Far shorter than mine and more informative and interesting.

Good post hog.