Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Don't be late Pedro]

Why is Kimmage even being asked these questions? Seems to me the feeling of disquiet / unrest is growing.

Quite a sample size you have got there.

 

[del1962]

I think the Tenerife statemnet from Kimmage is going to lose him a lot of credebility, makes him seem like a bit of a nutter, (will go down well in the clinic)

 

[Joachim]

Kimmage is still unconvinced

Can't possibly imagine why jobless Kimmage would be looking for something to get his name in the headlines.

Just sayin'

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Can't possibly imagine why jobless Kimmage would be looking for something to get his name in the headlines.

Just sayin'

I think given his history he is someone to take seriously when he raises concerns. There are still a lot of things that need explaining with Sky and, besides, a Brailsford/Wiggins interview with Kimmage would be worth a read.

 

[theyoungest]

I think given his history he is someone to take seriously when he raises concerns. There are still a lot of things that need explaining with Sky and, besides, a Brailsford/Wiggins interview with Kimmage would be worth a read.

The fact he was right about Armstrong doesn't mean he'll be right about everything in the entire world from now on.

The "evidence" he comes up with is scarce at best. Mind you, I'm not a Wiggo apologist, but this is just seeking headlines. The only thing he has going for him is the Geert Leinders story. Maybe mr. Kimmage can explain why Wiggo already got 4th in the Tour on Garmin then.

 

[Benotti69]

Can't possibly imagine why jobless Kimmage would be looking for something to get his name in the headlines.

Just sayin'

Ah someone calling it as he sees it upsetting Sky! Bet Fran/Wiggins/Brailsfords are having babies.

Kimmage aint Jobless. He is now freelance like most journalists, with 92K behind him to pursue his project of Hein/McQuaid's demise at UCI.

You're sad little dig at kimmage is right out of the top drawer of Armstrong/Bruyneel/Stapleton.

You are painting a vivd picture of where you come from.

 

[sniper]

The fact he was right about Armstrong doesn't mean he'll be right about everything in the entire world from now on.

The "evidence" he comes up with is scarce at best. Mind you, I'm not a Wiggo apologist, but this is just seeking headlines. The only thing he has going for him is the Geert Leinders story. Maybe mr. Kimmage can explain why Wiggo already got 4th in the Tour on Garmin then.

do tell more about that cave you've been living in for the past 20 years or so.

the USPS parallels and leinders-link merely add to the already existing common sense suspicion that Sky was doped, a suspicion that grows from the simple fact that they won the toughest race in one of the most PED-infected sports. So those infos merely confirm an already existing, healthy, common sense suspicion about Sky's performance. (common sense, if you haven't been living in a cage of course)

 

[Benotti69]

The fact he was right about Armstrong doesn't mean he'll be right about everything in the entire world from now on.

The "evidence" he comes up with is scarce at best. Mind you, I'm not a Wiggo apologist, but this is just seeking headlines. The only thing he has going for him is the Geert Leinders story. Maybe mr. Kimmage can explain why Wiggo already got 4th in the Tour on Garmin then.

Walsh's initial evidence was similar in regards to calling out Armstrong.

We know Matt White sent a rider to a doping doctor at Garmin. Maybe White sent Wiggins or maybe Hog has it right that Wiggins is workin with Ferarri. That wouldn't surprise me a we see Ferarri has been the Doctor of choice to go to for so many.

 

[sniper]

Ah someone calling it as he sees it upsetting Sky! Bet Fran/Wiggins/Brailsfords are having babies.

Kimmage aint Jobless. He is now freelance like most journalists, with 92K behind him to pursue his project of Hein/McQuaid's demise at UCI.

You're sad little dig at kimmage is right out of the top drawer of Armstrong/Bruyneel/Stapleton.

You are painting a vivd picture of where you come from.

+1
distracting from the message by throwing mud at the messenger.

 

[del1962]

So what Kimmage is saying is that preparing and working as a team is evidence of doping, while not having teamwork (such as left on your ow at the airport) is not.

Oh, and dont go to tenerife, I guess by Kimmage logic anyone who goes to Amsterdam visits a brothel

 

[sniper]

...Maybe mr. Kimmage can explain why Wiggo already got 4th in the Tour on Garmin then.

all this 4th place does is explain why Vaughters so adamantly defends Wiggins/Sky.

 

[sniper]

So what Kimmage is saying is that preparing and working as a team is evidence of doping, while not having teamwork (such as left on your ow at the airport) is not.

Oh, and dont go to tenerife, I guess by Kimmage logic anyone who goes to Amsterdam visits a brothel

nope.
All Kimmage's observations do is confirm his basic, common sense, healthy, logical presumption that Sky doped to win the toughest race in ione of the world's most PED-infected sports.

Yes it's un unproven presumption, but if you don't share that presumption after 20 years of scandals, you've got to remove the blinders, and fast.

Evidence for doping is not needed. Evidence for cleanlihood is needed. And Sky aren't providing any. That's Kimmage's main concern.

 

[del1962]

nope.
All Kimmage's observations do is confirm his basic, common sense, healthy, logical presumption that Sky doped to win the toughest race in ione of the world's most PED-infected sports.

If you don't share that basic assumption after 20 years of scandals, you've got to remove the blinders, and fast.

Evidence for doping is not needed. Evidence for cleanlihood is needed. And Sky aren't providing any. That's Kimmage's main concern.

Sorry but how do you produce evidence of cleanlihood.

If cylcing is getting cleaner, and there is evidence it is, then you can't just assume people are dopers just because they win,

I suspect that Kimmage rubs Wiggins up the wrong way with his interview technique, Wiggins talks about Kimmage trying to put words in his mouth in a 2008 interview about Armstrong, he mentioned this in his book, I wonder if the accusations from Kimmage are in part a petulent reactiion to what Wiggins wrote about hims.

 

[thirteen]

^^ more mud slinging

doesn't work, mate.

 

[Fortyninefourteen]

So what Kimmage is saying is that preparing and working as a team is evidence of doping, while not having teamwork (such as left on your ow at the airport) is not.

Oh, and dont go to tenerife, I guess by Kimmage logic anyone who goes to Amsterdam visits a brothel

...and visiting a gynecologist in Spain is evidence of having the female sexual apparatus....

 

[taiwan]

nope.
All Kimmage's observations do is confirm his basic, common sense, healthy, logical presumption that Sky doped to win the toughest race in ione of the world's most PED-infected sports.

Yes it's un unproven presumption, but if you don't share that presumption after 20 years of scandals, you've got to remove the blinders, and fast.

Evidence for doping is not needed. Evidence for cleanlihood is needed. And Sky aren't providing any. That's Kimmage's main concern.

+1 why would anyone accept that cycling is clean purely on the say so of people whose livelihoods depend on it? They couldn't afford to be candid even if they wanted to. When Froome Wiggins are exposed and the next 'clean' champions get trotted out some people will still swallow it. What would be credible is intelligent, independent testing and evidence that noone is too big to fail.

 

[del1962]

...and visiting a gynecologist in Spain is evidence of having the female sexual apparatus....

Who is visiting a gynecologist in Spain?

 

[sniper]

+1 why would anyone accept that cycling is clean purely on the say so of people whose livelihoods depend on it? They couldn't afford to be candid even if they wanted to. When Froome Wiggins are exposed and the next 'clean' champions get trotted out some people will still swallow it. What would be credible is intelligent, independent testing and evidence that noone is too big to fail.

and instead of pleading for independent testing, we hear this from Wiggins:

“I’m tested by the UCI God knows how many times a year, God knows how many times on this race and the Dauphiné, blood tested every morning… What more can I do ? I don’t know really ? I’d love to know.”

velonews.competitor.com/2012/07/news/as-questions-arise-wiggins-lashes-out-at-doping-doubters_228962

 

[Benotti69]

So what Kimmage is saying is that preparing and working as a team is evidence of doping, while not having teamwork (such as left on your ow at the airport) is not.

Oh, and dont go to tenerife, I guess by Kimmage logic anyone who goes to Amsterdam visits a brothel

The Dutch have not closed them have they for the tourists

Bit like locals in Tenerife not doing EPO but all the pro cyclists who train on the side of a Volcano up and down the same road do.

 

[Benotti69]

Sorry but how do you produce evidence of cleanlihood.

If cylcing is getting cleaner, and there is evidence it is, then you can't just assume people are dopers just because they win,

I suspect that Kimmage rubs Wiggins up the wrong way with his interview technique, Wiggins talks about Kimmage trying to put words in his mouth in a 2008 interview about Armstrong, he mentioned this in his book, I wonder if the accusations from Kimmage are in part a petulent reactiion to what Wiggins wrote about hims.

Where is the evidence of cycling getting cleaner?

Have you not read how many current pros were (probably still are) using Ferarri, Katusha, Leinders, Ibarguren, watched La Vuelta in 2012? to name some things pointing to cycling no cleaner than before.

The only thing that has happened has been the teams trying to get rider bloodprofiles to be consistent which has taken the edge of the obvious doping. But cycling being cleaner, hah!

 

[Tom T.]

I'd just like to thank this thread for the introduction of "cleanlihood" to the english language. Chapeau.

 

[thehog]

I'd just like to thank this thread for the introduction of "cleanlihood" to the english language. Chapeau.

Actually would be a PR coup for sky to embed Kimmage for the Tour. I don't buy the dislike people have for him; he was railing about doping and Armstrong when it was very bad for him career wise and personally, so I don't think it's self interest. I do hope he isn't right, as I'm sure, does he.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

I'd just like to thank this thread for the introduction of "cleanlihood" to the english language. Chapeau.

Is cleanlihood next to godlihood?

 

[veganrob]

all this 4th place does is explain why Vaughters so adamantly defends Wiggins/Sky.

To add, if I am not mistaken, wasn't Wiggins training in '09 being overseen by British Cycling and not Garmin. I believe JV brought this up. Curious.

 

[hrotha]

To add, if I am not mistaken, wasn't Wiggins training in '09 being overseen by British Cycling and not Garmin. I believe JV brought this up. Curious.

He mentioned that he didn't work much with Wiggins beyond seeing his test results (that's performance tests) and telling him he could become a GT rider.