Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Escarabajo]

Actually it seems more like the Clinic has it's collective panties in a wad.
Just saying. I know you were all burned by your hero Lance and want to
lash out at something, anything, everything but I don't think this obsession
with Sky will be good for your mental health in the long term, lads.

Brad, is that you?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I am getting the impression Brailsford is a puppet, who is the real boss behind BC/SKY? It can not be Brailsford imho, he has bad PR, like that Kerrison dude.

Brad, is that you?

Don't mind him, he once told me I was an Armstrong fan.

 

[blackcat]

 

[Escarabajo]

Mr. Brailsford says Sky is not doping. Puff, at least we got that out of the way.

Mods, please close this thread. Nothing to discuss here anymore.

 

[lavieclaire]

Actually, I advice you to try to find a few reels about how a guy called Lance Armstrong won races. This was of course long ago, so let me explain.

Lance Armstrong was the best TdF racer ever, he won 7 times, until they took that away. He used the tactic to have his team kill everyone else in the mountain stages by setting up a blistering pace.

Before Lance this tactic was employed by T-Mobile (Riis/Ulrich, also known dopers) and Banesto, the team of Miguel Indurain (the big star at the beginning of the Epoe era)

This is the same as Sky is doing.

Now I think I need to explain cycling mechanics too, as I think it helps you to understand. If I ride in front of you, you need less energy as I do. This is called slipstreaming. Even when climbing, especially at these speeds, sitting in the slipstream is easier. So if your helpers (a team has generally one leader and 7 helpers) manage to drop the other competitors it indicates they are actually stronger than those competitors. This indicates that Sky's racers are a lot stronger than the competition.

Back to history. Prior to the Epo era there were more attacks and the racing was less controlled. There were trains, but they got derailed a lot. This is the tactic Sky is NOT using.

I hope you could follow this so far? If not Youtube can help you understand this beautiful sport.

anyway, the conclusion is that succesful trains are not a sign of clean racing at all. In fact the most succesful cases were based on Blood-doping and Epo. This does not proof Sky is using doping, but it also makes clear that wht mister Brailsford is saying is false. Some would say he's a liar here as he was around when Lance Armstrong won this way.

You would have saved yourself a bit of bother if you'd read my post. I said 'take Sky out of the equation'.

Without doping cycling will not see blistering attacks and getaways on the mountains. It will see well-drilled teams comprised of talented riders with powe meters knowing exactly how hard they can go and for how long.

As for Sky, they are certainly as described above, no doubt about that whatsoever. Whether they also have some chemical assistance, who knows.

 

[thehog]

It's becoming the new 500 tests.

80 days is now 40. Soon to be 20.

Yes Hog. 80 Days.

Around the world in 80 days.

Not 40.

Not 20.

 

[blackcat]

I think you mean someone else here^^

yeah, fignon.

got dopers and managers on my mind

 

[veganrob]

Yes Hog. 80 Days.

Around the world in 80 days.

Not 40.

Not 20.

Ah, but did you take into account marginal gains.

 

[Benotti69]

Brailsford is struggling with the onside cycling media!

Things are gonna be hard for Sky. Will they rein it all in and no more wins till the big tours, just podiums (2nd and 3rd)?

How do keep riders happy if you tell them not to win?

We might not have to wait years to find out about the doping.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Brailsford is upset about Sky allegations.

 

[LaFlorecita]

blackcat I also noticed that a while ago when looking at this pic

scary

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

You would have saved yourself a bit of bother if you'd read my post. I said 'take Sky out of the equation'.

Without doping cycling will not see blistering attacks and getaways on the mountains. It will see well-drilled teams comprised of talented riders knowing exactly how hard they can go and for how long.

As for Sky, they are certainly as described above, no doubt about that whatsoever. Whether they also have some chemical assistance, who knows.

Please change that nickname of yours, it does not suit you. It is not like LeMond, Hinault, Ruttiman, Bauer, Hampsten and Jef Bernard are the equivalent to Froome, Wiggo, Porte, Uran, Henao and Cataldo.

You need to read up young grashopper.

Please, an Englishman who wants to teach us on clean cycling.

 

[sniper]

 

[blackcat]

 

[lavieclaire]

Please change that nickname of yours, it does not suit you. It is not like LeMond, Hinault, Ruttiman, Bauer, Hampsten and Jef Bernard are the equivalent to Froome, Wiggo, Porte, Uran, Henao and Cataldo.

You need to read up young grashopper.

Please, an Englishman who wants to teach us on clean cycling.

I'll teach you a new English word: Sardonic.

Try not to be. Id think higher of you.

 

[sublimit]

Actually it seems more like the Clinic has it's collective panties in a wad.
Just saying. I know you were all burned by your hero Lance and want to
lash out at something, anything, everything but I don't think this obsession
with Sky will be good for your mental health in the long term, lads.

These multi day stage race obsessed people are beyond hope I'm afraid, Its sad because I reckon a lot of them enjoy their cycle racing.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I'll teach you a new English word: Sardonic.

Try not to be. Id think higher of you.

Well well, thank you, J.

People who try to tell how cycling would looke like dopefree and point to the SKY borg train are not very credible. All I am saying.

Next try J.

 

[The Hitch]

Without doping cycling will not see blistering attacks and getaways on the mountains. It will see well-drilled teams comprised of talented riders with powe meters knowing exactly how hard they can go and for how long.
.

where did you get this?

Do you have any backup to this whatsoever?. Why would a clean peloton not have attack?

without doping, slipstream is less (since speeds are slower)

Msr became a borefest in the epo era as sprinters began to get over the hill easy. Similarly ittrs can be doped to stay in the mountains and teams of itt riders can be doped to form trains.

In the 80s before the epo era cycling was just as if not more aggressive.

 

[del1962]

where did you get this?

Do you have any backup to this whatsoever?. Why would a clean peloton not have attack?

without doping, slipstream is less (since speeds are slower)

Msr became a borefest in the epo era as sprinters began to get over the hill easy. Similarly ittrs can be doped to stay in the mountains and teams of itt riders can be doped to form trains.

In the 80s before the epo era cycling was just as if not more aggressive.

I agree that the tactic is not a sign of clean cycling, but nor is it a sign of doping, it is more a tactic that particularly suits wiggins riding stlye

 

[hrotha]

Why aren't any journos calling Brailsford out for the disgusting stuff he said when he used Txema González's death to justify hiring Leinders.

 

[lavieclaire]

where did you get this?

Do you have any backup to this whatsoever?. Why would a clean peloton not have attack?

without doping, slipstream is less (since speeds are slower)

Msr became a borefest in the epo era as sprinters began to get over the hill easy. Similarly ittrs can be doped to stay in the mountains and teams of itt riders can be doped to form trains.

In the 80s before the epo era cycling was just as if not more aggressive.

You are quite correct. There was much aggressive riding pre EPO, but other factors have changed since then.Power meters and HRMs...before these all a rider had was perceived exertion. Also communications were in the stone age in the 80s. Now we have radios and DSs watching the race in real time on mini TVs in the team cars.

All of this has led to more homogeneity. Drugs provide a curve ball to this, which is why Sky are naturally being accused of doping, although of course some people (maybe not here, I haven't read this enormous thread) accuse them of also being boring which is contradictory.

 

[The Hitch]

Why aren't any journos calling Brailsford out for the disgusting stuff he said when he used Txema González's death to justify hiring Leinders.

Because they are journalists who know how to do their jobs, not jobless Contador fanboi internet warriors like you making up libelous accusations because they are bitter that their rider couldnt win clean like wiggins and froome.

 

[blackcat]

accuse them of also being boring which is contradictory.

not really.

Armstrong and USPS were boring too.

It does not matter what the power meter reads and the p/w number

 

[will10]

So Dr. Leinders only worked for 40 days with Sky, I thought it was around 80 in a previous statement. Oh well I guess the next time Brailsford issues a statement it will be 20 days and soon Dr. Leinders will never have worked with Sky. #smokeandmirrors.

Thought the same. I'm certain he's on the record stating he worked 80 days a year. Is this like the 100 -> 200 -> 500 tests that Lance never failed?

 

[thehog]

Brailsford is struggling with the onside cycling media!

Things are gonna be hard for Sky. Will they rein it all in and no more wins till the big tours, just podiums (2nd and 3rd)?

How do keep riders happy if you tell them not to win?

We might not have to wait years to find out about the doping.

I would agree he’s in a bind. Its hard to dope as they do and keep it under wraps and make it look normal.

Now he trying to suggest that their dominating style of cycling is normal and attacking is not normal.

What to do? If they ease up on the doping, they stop winning. Keep doping then it looks obvious.

Lance was lucky. Although the boom with the Internet made him a star in this era with twitter, forums and google you can find out information of your own accord. People have woken up to Sky. The can search for any race on youTube. They can see what’s not normal and what is normal. They can watch the Dawg go sideways and then become super-dawg.