Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Wallace and Gromit]

It's the four climbers in an elite group of 8/10 riders that's the concerning part.

Indeed. And that is why I have stated my believe that the Sky performances range from almost certainly dodgy to very suspicious! I've written this twice already; maybe this time someone will actually read it.

However, this performance comprised 2 guys performing at 1980s elite level (Wiggo and Fenton) and 2 guys performing at a signficantly lower level, just as Popo, Rubiera etc. were performing at a lower level than Lance. Whether the performance gaps are due to differences in natural ability or different doping programmes is interesting though actually irrelevant to the point in question.

Sky may have had 4 riders personally blessed by the Pope, doped to the eyeballs, enjoying preferential treatment from the UCI and/or motors on their bikes, but the claim made upthread that a team had 4 or 5 riders performing at 1980s elite level is just not true. Sky had two. You can count them if you like. They were the guys in the lead group at the top of the final climbs, not the ones who peeled off at the bottom. One was in yellow, the other has an odd style and looks at his Powermeter all the time. This should not really be a very hard concept to grasp.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Are Sky asking for change at UCI and independent testing?

Close maybe:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-cycling-is-close-to-a-tipping-point

 

[cineteq]

López, another Skyborg in the making.

Did you expect such a performance?
I could imagine my result from training and workouts since December. And I also had the extra motivation of a new team. I knew I was good but my question was to know my condition in a race as good as Paris-Nice and whether I would be as good as the team.

http://www.biciciclismo.com/cas/site/noticias-ficha.asp?id=60154

 

[mattghg]

The problem with that can already be seen in the various rows between Krebs, acoggan and wiggo. No amount of data release will shift people's position on this - they will continue, on all sides, to cherrypick the data that works for them.

Isn't this, in fact, exactly what happened when Wiggins released his blood data in 2009? Did anyone'e mind change as a result, one way or the other?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Isn't this, in fact, exactly what happened when Wiggins released his blood data in 2009? Did anyone'e mind change as a result, one way or the other?

There was a bump upwards of his Hgb in the third week for both Giro and Tour.

The same sort of bump in Ryder's 2012 Giro data.

It didn't change my mind for the better, no.

 

[will10]

Isn't this, in fact, exactly what happened when Wiggins released his blood data in 2009? Did anyone'e mind change as a result, one way or the other?

I have more faith in 2009 Wiggins than 2012 Wiggins. And vastly more faith in 2012 Wiggins than 2011/2012/2013 Froome.

 

[Ferminal]

I've been following this thread but may have missed anyone asking the question about Joe Dombrowski likely riding the Giro this year. Joe's got amazing talent and his win in the Ciclistico d'Italia is some rationalization for bringing him to the race - but would Sky bring him if he weren't on the same program as the rest of his team? It's a grand tour and it seems that Sky would need everyone on the same page... I'm probably not posing this well but think you can understand what I'm asking.

I think the role he will be employed in (policing the early passes on mountain stages) he doesn't need to be at a Rogers or Cataldo level. If he is as good as he was on Gavia last year that's probably good enough to keep the break on a short leash.

 

[zalacain]

David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST

About to leave Tenerife after five illuminating days in company of Tim Kerrison, Bradley Wiggins, Geraint Thomas et al. Weather was okay too

Illuminating?

 

[mattghg]

David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST

About to leave Tenerife after five illuminating days in company of Tim Kerrison, Bradley Wiggins, Geraint Thomas et al. Weather was okay too

Illuminating?

Duh duh duuuh!

 

[sniper]

David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST

About to leave Tenerife after five illuminating days in company of Tim Kerrison, Bradley Wiggins, Geraint Thomas et al. Weather was okay too

Illuminating?

Financially illuminating, no doubt.

I guess next up is Walsh explaining us in print what Sky professionalism and marginal gains are all about.

Expect a lot of technical detail presented as highly relevant innovations.

Don't expect any particularly critical sounds from Walsh other than the "Of course it was foolish to hire Leinders" line.

Hope I'm wrong about Walsh.

 

[mattghg]

Financially illuminating, no doubt.

I guess next up is Walsh explaining us in print what Sky professionalism and marginal gains are all about.

Expect a lot of technical detail presented as highly relevant innovations.

Don't expect any particularly critical sounds from Walsh other than the "Of course it was foolish to hire Leinders" line.

Hope I'm wrong about Walsh.

Get your excuses in early, eh sniper. Too bad you have to call someone with Walsh's rep corrupt in order to do it.

 

[Marco Pantani]

Illuminating....well, well

It's obvious, which road he chose.

 

[bianchigirl]

Sitting and listening to price brag that he'd got the race of the falling leaves to move to a single block of spring classics in his glorious world of WSC made me heave - that he will control the teams & sell their set ices back to the UCI was another WTF moment - the thought of Price & Murdoch controlling cycling should make any real fan want to burn it all down.

And BC want to be careful about leaving those unmarked meds lying around too

 

[coinneach]

By not keeping an open mind and waiting to see what he actually does say, all posters are doing is illustrating their blocked thinking and fixed minds.

Walsh is one of the few journalists brave enough to call it out (if he sees anything). Lets give him a bit of the respect he has earned.

 

[sniper]

Get your excuses in early, eh sniper. Too bad you have to call someone with Walsh's rep corrupt in order to do it.

corrupt, no.
clever, yes.

Walsh' choice to jump on the bandwagon is the unmarked choice, i.e. the choice most earthlings would make in his position.
Walsh' reporting on Lance was outstanding. I refer to that as Walsh Version 1.0 (pre-2012).
I think wrt Sky he has chosen a different, less controversial, less risky path. Let it be clear that I don't blame him. He also has a family to think about.
Disappointed, yes. Cycling needs crazy and courageous minds like Kimmage and Walsh V.1.0. The Lance saga has abundantly shown their value.

A simple look at Walsh' twitter shows how he's cashing in on the Lance saga. I can imagine he has no intentions to shift the focus away from Lance too early. There is not a single way in which Walsh would benefit from a doping scandal involving Sky.

 

[mattghg]

Walsh is one of the few journalists brave enough to call it out (if he sees anything). Lets give him a bit of the respect he has earned.

+1 I agree

 

[Catwhoorg]

I asked if he had the chance to talk to Hayman about Rabobank, he then tweeted.


David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST

I did interview Matt Hayman about Rabobank, also spoke with Dave B about Leinders and with Richie P about having to defend team after PN


Thats the making of a very interesting article on Sunday.

 

[coinneach]

This place is getting more and more like the Coliceum, and less and less like a Forum

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

vs

Just saying.

Do guys really think/expect Walsh is going to find anything on Teide? Do people really think Kerrison is going to say 'he, here is the Stilnox I used on the swimmers, that worked very well'.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Hopefully Skynet will not take control of Walsh the way it has seemed to take control of many journalists soiling themselves sniff Sky chamois.

 

[sniper]

...
Do people really think Kerrison is going to say 'he, here is the Stilnox I used on the swimmers, that worked very well'.

it's a plausible, clever, and already fruitful PR move.
win-win.

 

[BYOP88]

Would feel more at ease if it was someone who wasn't paid by News Corp. getting the all access pass with Team Sky.

 

[sniper]

Walsh:
"I did interview Matt Hayman about Rabobank, also spoke with Dave B about Leinders and with Richie P about having to defend team after PN"

"Piece will appear in this week's ST. Please don't complain about it not being free online - I've seen too many colleagues lose their jobs."

Well orchestrated.

 

[del1962]

I asked if he had the chance to talk to Hayman about Rabobank, he then tweeted.


David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST

I did interview Matt Hayman about Rabobank, also spoke with Dave B about Leinders and with Richie P about having to defend team after PN


Thats the making of a very interesting article on Sunday.

Damn, paywall

 

[blackcat]

it's a plausible, clever, and already fruitful PR move.
win-win.

Walsh:
"I did interview Matt Hayman about Rabobank, also spoke with Dave B about Leinders and with Richie P about having to defend team after PN"

"Piece will appear in this week's ST. Please don't complain about it not being free online - I've seen too many colleagues lose their jobs."

Well orchestrated.

embedded journalism has been refined propaganda devised by the Pentagon.