Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[caryopsis]

embedded journalism has been refined propaganda devised by the Pentagon.

Embedded journalism that produces carefully crafted propaganda has been around in multiple countries since before the Pentagon existed. Just, I think, made slightly more transparent in recent years through the level of media exposure of US-fought wars.

Now back to the topic at hand...um, carry on.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Maybe we'll find out just how deeply Walsh is...embedded.

 

[blackcat]

Embedded journalism that produces carefully crafted propaganda has been around in multiple countries since before the Pentagon existed. Just, I think, made slightly more transparent in recent years through the level of media exposure of US-fought wars.

Now back to the topic at hand...um, carry on.

nothing with any relevance to its new Judith Miller propaganda level.

this is completely different.

and this IS relevant, re Walsh > tenerife

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-hits-back-at-accusations-and-criticism-of-team-sky

"Here (at Tirreno-Adriatico) people said we were riding to numbers but they should do their homework before saying things like that. The guys rode with compact chain sets on Sunday and Monday and so didn&#8217]

Well, Dave, how about this nice video that points out they did ride with SRM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DSHAU27uIcA

averages:
245 Watts
116 heartrate
72RPM
37.5 kphr

They forgot to tell Lloyd it seems.
http://road.cc/content/news/78268-video-secrets-commentary-box…-chris-froomes-srm

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Financially illuminating, no doubt.

I guess next up is Walsh explaining us in print what Sky professionalism and marginal gains are all about.

Expect a lot of technical detail presented as highly relevant innovations.

Don't expect any particularly critical sounds from Walsh other than the "Of course it was foolish to hire Leinders" line.

Hope I'm wrong about Walsh.

Please explain financially illuminating.
I would assume the Sunday Times have DW on contract, pay him a wage regardless of what he does.
Or do have information that they only pay Walsh for nice stuff?

Oh, and earlier you said that Sky paid for his trip to Tenerife. How exactly do you know this?

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Maserati, I think you are seeing a lot of cynicism from fans because of what has transpired over the last 20 years and the media's complicity in the fraud. I wouldn't put Walsh or Kimmage or Macur in that bucket, though many are worried, and perhaps rightfully so, that Walsh will be manipulated by Sky.

It's hard to make the argument that cyclists or the vast majority of journalists who report on their exploits deserve the benefit of the doubt at this point.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Maserati, I think you are seeing a lot of cynicism from fans because of what has transpired over the last 20 years and the media's complicity in the fraud. I wouldn't put Walsh or Kimmage or Macur in that bucket, though many are worried, and perhaps rightfully so, that Walsh will be manipulated by Sky.

It's hard to make the argument that cyclists or the vast majority of journalists who report on their exploits deserve the benefit of the doubt at this point.

All fair, but we are discussing Walsh, not the sniffers

He is not judge and jury, he is a journalist. I don't want his opinions, I want him to ask the probing questions record the answers and let me (& people) decide, that's it.
And to be clear - that's exactly what he does.

 

[Lanark]

I'm sure Walsh tried his best to uncover any dirt he could find. I'm equally sure that Brailsford et al. are more than up to the task of projecting a clean image and making sure that Walsh doesn't find out anything. I expect nothing interesting from this article.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

All fair, but we are discussing Walsh, not the sniffers

He is not judge and jury, he is a journalist. I don't want his opinions, I want him to ask the probing questions record the answers and let me (& people) decide, that's it.
And to be clear - that's exactly what he does.

That is exactly what I expect from him, and that is what his reputation demands as well. He's been one of the few lone voices in the desert, and I hope that he pursues the truth in Sky's case with the same zeal as he did in Armstrong's case.

 

[xcleigh]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-hits-back-at-accusations-and-criticism-of-team-sky



Well, Dave, how about this nice video that points out they did ride with SRM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DSHAU27uIcA

averages:
245 Watts
116 heartrate
72RPM
37.5 kphr

They forgot to tell Lloyd it seems.
http://road.cc/content/news/78268-video-secrets-commentary-box…-chris-froomes-srm

Genuine question as I don't use a powermeter , but could that data be from the previous days stage? They just left it on the bike without clearing the data?

 

[sniper]

Please explain financially illuminating.
I would assume the Sunday Times have DW on contract, pay him a wage regardless of what he does.
Or do have information that they only pay Walsh for nice stuff?

Oh, and earlier you said that Sky paid for his trip to Tenerife. How exactly do you know this?

all the finances is me speculating.
bottom line: Walsh investigating Sky is like the butcher inspecting his own meat.
He's compromised. But I hope that in a few days you can laugh at me when Walsh says he thinks Sky are not to be trusted. Sort of like the Contador goes to Israel thing. I was glad to be wrong about CAS' corruptability.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Genuine question as I don't use a powermeter , but could that data be from the previous days stage? They just left it on the bike without clearing the data?

I thought the same - but, the stage was the one JRod won, stage 5 - here are all the results for Froome.
Stage 1 TTT 16.9km 19m49s 51kph.
Stage 2 232k 5h48m41s 39.1kph.
Stage 3 190k 5h15m12s 36.1kph.
Stage 4 173k @ 4h41m31s 36.8 kph
Stage 5 230k @ 6h06m51s 37.6kph

 

[Dr. Maserati]

all the finances is me speculating.
bottom line: Walsh investigating Sky is like the butcher inspecting his own meat.
He's compromised. But I hope that in a few days you can laugh at me when Walsh says he thinks Sky are not to be trusted. Sort of like the Contador goes to Israel thing. I was glad to be wrong about CAS' corruptability.

So, you dont know who paid for the trip, nor anything else for that matter.
But please explain how he is compromised - and again, he is not judge and jury, so he will not be able to say that Sky cannot be trusted, he can just expose the hypocrisy or lies..

 

[leon7766]

Financially illuminating, no doubt.

I guess next up is Walsh explaining us in print what Sky professionalism and marginal gains are all about.

Expect a lot of technical detail presented as highly relevant innovations.

Don't expect any particularly critical sounds from Walsh other than the "Of course it was foolish to hire Leinders" line.

Hope I'm wrong about Walsh.

Sickening and yet typical of this forum.
Basically what you mean is unless he echoes your biased distorted view he is a liar and an accomplice of cheats .
Pathetic

 

[mastersracer]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-hits-back-at-accusations-and-criticism-of-team-sky



Well, Dave, how about this nice video that points out they did ride with SRM:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DSHAU27uIcA

averages:
245 Watts
116 heartrate
72RPM
37.5 kphr

They forgot to tell Lloyd it seems.
http://road.cc/content/news/78268-video-secrets-commentary-box…-chris-froomes-srm

doesn't make sense for a team leader not to ride with a powermeter on a stage like that. Getting that info is exactly the point of early season racing. Maybe DB was referring to other riders. Still, it's meaningless whether or not a team rides with powermeters.

 

[King Boonen]

all the finances is me speculating.
bottom line: Walsh investigating Sky is like the butcher inspecting his own meat.
He's compromised. But I hope that in a few days you can laugh at me when Walsh says he thinks Sky are not to be trusted. Sort of like the Contador goes to Israel thing. I was glad to be wrong about CAS' corruptability.

So if he says they're not to be trusted he's telling the truth, but if he says they seem to be clean he's obviously been bought/fooled?

 

[leon7766]

Maybe we'll find out just how deeply Walsh is...embedded.

Pathetic and classless post fits in well with most on this forum

 

[Cyivel]

Calm down leon.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

doesn't make sense for a team leader not to ride with a powermeter on a stage like that. Getting that info is exactly the point of early season racing. Maybe DB was referring to other riders. Still, it's meaningless whether or not a team rides with powermeters.

Indeed, but of course its not about the SRMs - its about Sir Davids credibility:

"Here (at Tirreno-Adriatico) people said we were riding to numbers but they should do their homework before saying things like that. The guys rode with compact chain sets on Sunday and Monday and so didn’t have SRM's on their bikes," Brailsford pointed out

"If I'm a liar and a cheat and if my ethics and morals are all about cheating, if that's what we're doing here, lying to the world and cheating, then surely I'll be doing it in other places in my life. Not just parts."

 

[oldcrank]

Maybe we'll find out just how deeply Walsh is...embedded.

Yes, there are a few that will resent Walsh for helping
to expose their hero Lance Armstrong, but I believe
he has proved himself as an honest investigative
journalist.

 

[sniper]

So, you dont know who paid for the trip, nor anything else for that matter.
But please explain how he is compromised - and again, he is not judge and jury, so he will not be able to say that Sky cannot be trusted, he can just expose the hypocrisy or lies..

he said on the record he believes sky are clean, based on nothing but vaughters' word, and that their success is down to a bigger budget. I wouldn't expect an independent Walsh to say that kind of stuff. Well, you would, perhaps. I wouldn't.
So to be sure, it's just me thinking he's compromised, I'm not saying that's what you should think as well.

p.s. Being "compromised" is still underdefined, i realize that. Suffice it to note I don't think he's been bought. I merely think that he's not gonna right down in the newspaper what he genuinely thinks about sky.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Yes, there are a few that will resent Walsh for helping
to expose their hero Lance Armstrong, but I believe
he has proved himself as an honest investigative
journalist.

Hi Oldcrank - ya, you tried the same kindof irrelevant yak yesterday

Actually it seems more like the Clinic has it's collective panties in a wad.
Just saying. I know you were all burned by your hero Lance and want to
lash out at something, anything, everything but I don't think this obsession
with Sky will be good for your mental health in the long term, lads.

Armstrongs dead - RIP.

As for Walsh as long as he doesnt start flip flopping like Sir Dave I think he will be fine.

 

[mastersracer]

Indeed, but of course its not about the SRMs - its about Sir Davids credibility:

Christian Knees' bike had compact cranks with no srm for that stage, so there were some without SRM.

 

[Benotti69]

Christian Knees' bike had compact cranks with no srm for that stage, so there were some without SRM.

Froome's bike according to pics i saw had srm on it.

Check 3rd pic

http://www.steephill.tv/2013/tirreno-adriatico/photos/stage-06/

 

[Dr. Maserati]

he said on the record he believes sky are clean, based on nothing but vaughters' word, and that their success is down to a bigger budget. I wouldn't expect an independent Walsh to say that kind of stuff. Well, you would, perhaps. I wouldn't.
So to be sure, it's just me thinking he's compromised, I'm not saying that's what you should think as well.

Yes, he gave a crazy hypothetical situation (I think it was hand in fire) where he was forced to say ya or neh, that he would side on that they were clean - he did not just write as you have "sky are clean" -do have you a link to it, because I remember it as being pretty balanced.