Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Cavendash]

If Sky are on some big team wide doping program all year round, how are they getting away with it in todays enviroment? and what drugs are they most likely using?

 

[bobbins]

Perhaps, but it seems mighty odd, if that is the case, to air it publically in a disapproving manner - why make your protector look bad?

Desperation? Bear in mind the proposed new league of Mickey Mouse cycle races is being backed by news international and Brailsford is thick with at least one race promoter so it will suit them to use them and move on. As long as all they have done is protect and there is no paper trial or cover ups they are safe.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

If Sky are on some big team wide doping program all year round, how are they getting away with it in todays enviroment? and what drugs are they most likely using?

What environment?

The one where you get tested on average 2x a year OOC, of which .7 of those tests are tested for EPO?

Or the environment where LA's dodgy profile is not even presented to the BP panel?

Or the environment where McQuaid and Hein are still the top dogs in the global cycling organisation, calling the shots and doing the deals?

 

[martinvickers]

Desperation? Bear in mind the proposed new league of Mickey Mouse cycle races is being backed by news international and Brailsford is thick with at least one race promoter so it will suit them to use them and move on. As long as all they have done is protect and there is no paper trial or cover ups they are safe.

Not comvinced that makes any sense, bobbins - simply don't see the connections.

 

[bobbins]

What environment?

The one where you get tested on average 2x a year OOC, of which .7 of those tests are tested for EPO?

Or the environment where LA's dodgy profile is not even presented to the BP panel?

Or the environment where McQuaid and Hein are still the top dogs in the global cycling organisation, calling the shots and doing the deals?

Exactly. A positive from some teams would be most surprising than some of the unbelievable performances they are coming out with.

 

[mikehammer67]

They come to this training camp in Tenerife without a doctor, as Kerrison likes to strip things down when they’re in Teide. “There’s a time for giving the riders all the support and a time for focusing them on the things that matter. Up here we try to eliminate all the distractions.”

what the hell does that mean?

 

[The Hitch]

If Sky are on some big team wide doping program all year round, how are they getting away with it in todays enviroment? and what drugs are they most likely using?

Same way athletes always doped while governing bodies and fans trumped up the new clean environment. Better doctors than anti doping. Corruption in the governing body. Doping during training when there are less tests. Doping in small ammounts. Knowing what drugs the testers are testing for. Lots of possibilties like always.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I think the last paragraphs are startling - the admission, indeed, the complaint, about lack of testing. For Sky to even raise this, when they're having issues in terms of being clean, is odd, but possibly a good thing. Not that they've been tested so little, but that they are willing to be public about it.

It makes UCI/Doping authorities look very bad, tho.

They do not like that they are not tested on Tenerife because then they can not UP the parameters?

Whatever they use is not yet detectable. I do know staying at high altitude does wonders to your ABP. You can come of altitude and dope, cause, 'hey, look at my Tenerife build profile'. The off scores will be within the limits, which are ridiculously high set. In 2009 Armstrong only went above 100 offscore/TSI two times. For the rest of the year he was 'in the believable' margin of 70 to 100. High tech baby!

Of course I could be wrong and we could be talking about the biggest talents in cycling history, also given the fact Armstrong swore he did not dope on his return

They come to this training camp in Tenerife without a doctor, as Kerrison likes to strip things down when they’re in Teide. “There’s a time for giving the riders all the support and a time for focusing them on the things that matter. Up here we try to eliminate all the distractions.”

what the hell does that mean?

It is a given fact on Tenerife you can not have saddlesores.

 

[Ferminal]

You know exactly what i mean, but hey posting that **** avoids the question doesn't it.

No, your idea of the "environment" is probably different to mine, thus my answer may seem ridiculous.

If it's the environment where you can safely use EPO and perform blood transfusions, then yeh...

 

[Gloin22]

Sky are leading the peleton at Milano SanRemo......

Another signing of massive doping in the team, surely ?

 

[mikehammer67]

Dr. Peters convinced Froome that he had a 96 VO2 max.
The rest is history.

it didn't happen quite like that
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HoLs0V8T5AA

 

[hrotha]

Thomas or Stannard to win PR. Who needs warm-up races anyway?

 

[Gloin22]

Thomas or Stannard to win PR. Who needs warm-up races anyway?

EBH Clearly

I mean, if Sky are doping, why they don't dope EBH. He clearly needs EPO just for him to make him eligible candidate for his hype in classics...

 

[Ferminal]

What would happen if EBH won?

ffs ninja'ed

 

[ebandit]

cold

Thomas or Stannard to win PR. Who needs warm-up races anyway?

aye! it were reet cold at msr

 

[ebandit]

wave

What would happen if EBH won?

ffs ninja'ed

.............he would wave to david?

 

[hrotha]

EBH Clearly

I mean, if Sky are doping, why they don't dope EBH. He clearly needs EPO just for him to make him eligible candidate for his hype in classics...

If EBH isn't doping, could be that he is deemed untrustworthy to enter the inner circle. Team-wide doping hasn't been literally team-wide in a long time.

Problem is, Sky is so ridiculous you have to view all their riders with suspicion. You can never be sure of who's inside and who's outside.

I haven't seen EBH (or Thomas, for that matter) do anything to make me think they're in the inner circle. Yet.

 

[MarkvW]

If only journalists had the balls to point these things out. What would cycling be?

Cyclists would just talk less to journalists . . .

 

[DirtyWorks]

...Whatever they use is not yet detectable...

Keep your mind more open than that.

The UCI controls who to test, what tests, and in 2012, routing test results, and, as always, opening cases. Armstrong's 'comeback' red-hot samples that mysteriously never made it out of the APMU suggests they don't have to be on better stuff. The UCI just doesn't pass on the red-hot positive samples.

Based on my summary of the process, there are PLENTY of opportunities for the UCI to abandon red-hot positive samples. If the powers-that-be at the UCI like the rider/team, then it's dope-on!

 

[The Hitch]

aye! it were reet cold at msr

.............he would wave to david?

what happened to all your promises that you weren't going to come back to the forum?

Funny how you deleted them from your post history.

http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?p=1149728#post1149728

If EBH isn't doping, could be that he is deemed untrustworthy to enter the inner circle. Team-wide doping hasn't been literally team-wide in a long time.

Problem is, Sky is so ridiculous you have to view all their riders with suspicion. You can never be sure of who's inside and who's outside.

I haven't seen EBH (or Thomas, for that matter) do anything to make me think they're in the inner circle. Yet.

performance wise, not yet, but gt did express great frustration last year that those usada ****ers wouldn't leave his hero lance Armstrong alone.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Sometimes you as a human being are just happy to be around, Ian Stannard punishing 'la Machine' on the Poggio is one of them. Pitty he didnt get away with his Zoetemelk demarrage.

 

[roundabout]

I thought he was more Mimosa then.

 

[maltiv]

If EBH isn't doping, could be that he is deemed untrustworthy to enter the inner circle. Team-wide doping hasn't been literally team-wide in a long time.

Problem is, Sky is so ridiculous you have to view all their riders with suspicion. You can never be sure of who's inside and who's outside.

I haven't seen EBH (or Thomas, for that matter) do anything to make me think they're in the inner circle. Yet.

If EBH is doping then it seems to have the reverse effect on him Pretty much everyone who came to Sky have improved by massive amount - except the biggest talent they signed, who has become worse and worse every year...It seems like talent and results are negatively correlated on Sky, the less talent you have (e.g Froome), the better you are!

Anyway, I really doubt Sky were up to anything on Tenerife, with David Walsh being there and all.

 

[Pentacycle]

If EBH is doping then it seems to have the reverse effect on him Pretty much everyone who came to Sky have improved by massive amount - except the biggest talent they signed, who has become worse and worse every year...It seems like talent and results are negatively correlated on Sky, the less talent you have (e.g Froome), the better you are!

Anyway, I really doubt Sky were up to anything on Tenerife, with David Walsh being there and all.

Stop your frustration on EBH please, he is not 'the biggest talent at Sky' as you call it. As has been pointed out over the years he can't handle the toughest spring classics. He has no endurance, and no matter how high your VO2max is you can't win classics without it.

Froome on the other hand has the talent, but didn't have a professional team around him until he was 24, while Hagen turned pro at 21 and was already close to his peak.(he's still on his 2009 level) They're quite the opposite riders in terms of their development. EBH has only progressed little(no, he's not become worse) at Sky, while Froome is finally reaching his best years at 28.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Stop your frustration on EBH please, he is not 'the biggest talent at Sky' as you call it. As has been pointed out over the years he can't handle the toughest spring classics. He has no endurance, and no matter how high your VO2max is you can't win classics without it.

Froome on the other hand has the talent, but didn't have a professional team around him until he was 24, while Hagen turned pro at 21 and was already close to his peak.(he's still on his 2009 level) They're quite the opposite riders in terms of their development. EBH has only progressed little(no, he's not become worse) at Sky, while Froome is finally reaching his best years at 28.

If you can find ten people who aren't directly related to Chris Froome who were prepared to say before August 2011 that they thought Froome was more talented than Boasson Hagen, I will be amazed. And not by ret-conning things either - people who actually thought that before the Vuelta made us re-assess Froome's previous performances.