Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Bernie's eyesore]

If EBH is doping then it seems to have the reverse effect on him Pretty much everyone who came to Sky have improved by massive amount - except the biggest talent they signed, who has become worse and worse every year...It seems like talent and results are negatively correlated on Sky, the less talent you have (e.g Froome), the better you are!

Anyway, I really doubt Sky were up to anything on Tenerife, with David Walsh being there and all.

Boasson Hagen was superb for the whole of 2012 right through from the Tour Down Under until Beijing. It was an incredible season for a rider who is apparently getting worse and worse with each year. He doesn't look in great form so far this year but it could be for a number of reasons, although this is the clinic so it must be because he isn't part of Sky's inner circle.

 

[The Hitch]

If you can find ten people who aren't directly related to Chris Froome who were prepared to say before August 2011 that they thought Froome was more talented than Boasson Hagen, I will be amazed. And not by ret-conning things either - people who actually thought that before the Vuelta made us re-assess Froome's previous performances.

forget that. If you can find 10 people who are or arent related to Chris Froome who were prepared to say before August 2011 that they thought Froome was more talented than Boasson Hagen, I will be amazed.

Scratch that, if you can find 5 people i will be amazed.

 

[zalacain]

Anyway, I really doubt Sky were up to anything on Tenerife, with David Walsh being there and all.

Shame it was fully booked so us mere mortals couldn't pop by and see for ourselves.

 

[martinvickers]

Shame it was fully booked so us mere mortals couldn't pop by and see for ourselves.

Was it fully booked?

 

[blackcat]

forget that. If you can find 10 people who are or arent related to Chris Froome who were prepared to say before August 2011 that they thought Froome was more talented than Boasson Hagen, I will be amazed.

Scratch that, if you can find 5 people i will be amazed.

depends how you measure talent innit

GC > One-Day > Sprinter

tho Cecchini did say if Boss loses ~6kgs (think Wiggo) he could win the TDF.

And I dont think it is not being on the inside of Sky's "program"

Cos he just killed it when he was riding in the l'Avenir and at Maxbo.

he has a good coach / trainer / perparatore. he is belgian this guy

 

[coinneach]

forget that. If you can find 10 people who are or arent related to Chris Froome who were prepared to say before August 2011 that they thought Froome was more talented than Boasson Hagen, I will be amazed.

Scratch that, if you can find 5 people i will be amazed.

Well, I can remember David Harmon commentating on eurosport (in 2010?) saying that Froome is a real talent who can climb & timetrial, but not sure if he can stay healthy. First time I heard his name. Similarly he was waxing lyrical about Richie Porte in a different team around then too. He knows more about cycling than I do, and possible Hitch too (though not LS!)

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

If you can find ten people who aren't directly related to Chris Froome who were prepared to say before August 2011 that they thought Froome was more talented than Boasson Hagen, I will be amazed. And not by ret-conning things either - people who actually thought that before the Vuelta made us re-assess Froome's previous performances.

Tip: do not argue with people who say EBH is not a bigger talent than tha Dawg.

Ian Stannard: plan C

 

[JimmyFingers]

Sometimes you as a human being are just happy to be around, Ian Stannard punishing 'la Machine' on the Poggio is one of them. Pitty he didnt get away with his Zoetemelk demarrage.

Stannard was beautiful today, what a gusty ride, utterly outclassed at the end, reckon he cost Sagan the win because of the work he had to do to close him down.

 

[maltiv]

Stop your frustration on EBH please, he is not 'the biggest talent at Sky' as you call it. As has been pointed out over the years he can't handle the toughest spring classics. He has no endurance, and no matter how high your VO2max is you can't win classics without it.

Froome on the other hand has the talent, but didn't have a professional team around him until he was 24, while Hagen turned pro at 21 and was already close to his peak.(he's still on his 2009 level) They're quite the opposite riders in terms of their development. EBH has only progressed little(no, he's not become worse) at Sky, while Froome is finally reaching his best years at 28.

Quote Brailsford (early 2011): "EBH is, by far, the greatest talent on the team. The tests he does are at another level". So yeah, EBH did (or does?) have better test results than both Wiggins and Froome, but he clearly can't get it out in racing, for whatever reason.

Imo he has become slower than in 2009, has lost his natural winner's instinct, and has totally forgot how to TT. The only thing he has improved at is climbing mountains and non-cobbled hills.

I'm not really that frustrated about it anymore though, I already said before M-SR that I've given up on him ever improving in long races. I kinda thought that with the distance cut down that he'd be able to follow Cavendish uphill though, but clearly not...

Even Gabriel Rasch was much better than Eddy in 27th. In training, Rasch can't even keep EBH's wheel on the flat!

 

[will10]

Quote Brailsford (early 2011): "EBH is, by far, the greatest talent on the team. The tests he does are at another level". So yeah, EBH did (or does?) have better test results than both Wiggins and Froome, but he clearly can't get it out in racing, for whatever reason.

Imo he has become slower than in 2009, has lost his natural winner's instinct, and has totally forgot how to TT. The only thing he has improved at is climbing mountains and non-cobbled hills.

I'm not really that frustrated about it anymore though, I already said before M-SR that I've given up on him ever improving in long races. I kinda thought that with the distance cut down that he'd be able to follow Cavendish uphill though, but clearly not...

Even Gabriel Rasch was much better than Eddy in 27th. In training, Rasch can't even keep EBH's wheel on the flat!

EBH hasn't won a classic yet? But Vaughters told us the talented guys can get results in a clean peloton!!! What gives JV????


[disclaimer: joke]

 

[thirteen]

Stannard was beautiful today, what a gusty ride, utterly outclassed at the end, reckon he cost Sagan the win because of the work he had to do to close him down.

you're talking cycling in the Clinic? how dare you!

agree, though

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Stannard was beautiful today, what a gusty ride, utterly outclassed at the end, reckon he cost Sagan the win because of the work he had to do to close him down.

Sagan is just anti - Sky Jim, you know it.

Said it before, he will do well in the cobblestones. But I did find it funny, he almost 'Froomed' Chavanel on the Poggio

6.35 today on the Poggio

 

[MarkvW]

you're talking cycling in the Clinic? how dare you!

agree, though

I've seen people threatened with bans for actually talking about cycling in the Clinic. It is nice to know that Cycling News is striving to keep the doping talk segregated and isolated. It fits in with the general ethos of pro cycling!

 

[coinneach]

Much as I enjoyed the race, I think people are reading too much into it.

It was cold, wet, and they had a 2 hour break in the middle.

Not normal.

Further discussion of EHB v IS should wait for more evidence elsewhere.

 

[thehog]

Quote Brailsford (early 2011): "EBH is, by far, the greatest talent on the team. The tests he does are at another level". So yeah, EBH did (or does?) have better test results than both Wiggins and Froome, but he clearly can't get it out in racing, for whatever reason.

Imo he has become slower than in 2009, has lost his natural winner's instinct, and has totally forgot how to TT. The only thing he has improved at is climbing mountains and non-cobbled hills.

I'm not really that frustrated about it anymore though, I already said before M-SR that I've given up on him ever improving in long races. I kinda thought that with the distance cut down that he'd be able to follow Cavendish uphill though, but clearly not...

Even Gabriel Rasch was much better than Eddy in 27th. In training, Rasch can't even keep EBH's wheel on the flat!

EBH needs to go to Garmin. They let riders earn cash and not be obliged to dope over there. FDJ might be a better option. Let him go on lone long breaks in boring flat stages at the Tour.

If EBH got on the Dawg program he'd be close to a Tour winner.

But the boy just doesn't want inject his own blood.

The Dawg mustn't be able to look him in the eye.

They need to cut him loose. If he's not going to borg it up then get someone who will. Like Stannard.

 

[peterst6906]

Much as I enjoyed the race, I think people are reading too much into it.

It was cold, wet, and they had a 2 hour break in the middle.

Not normal.

Further discussion of EHB v IS should wait for more evidence elsewhere.

+1 on this.

How it's possible to read anything much into such an unusual race is difficult to see.

 

[blackcat]

Much as I enjoyed the race, I think people are reading too much into it.

It was cold, wet, and they had a 2 hour break in the middle.

Not normal.

Further discussion of EHB v IS should wait for more evidence elsewhere.

/incorrect invoking of euphemism

 

[martinvickers]

+1 on this.

How it's possible to read anything much into such an unusual race is difficult to see.

If I were to guess, I'd simply say that maybe EBH found the switch from warm to frreezing harder than, say, Stannard. Stannard LOVES crap weather.

Steve Prefontaine, US running legend, used to have a great quote that hints at Stannard's style

A lot of people run a race to see who is fastest. I run to see who has the most guts, who can punish himself into exhausting pace, and then at the end, punish himself even more. I'm going to work so that it's a pure guts race at the end, and if it is, I am the only one who can win it.

In reality it's an impossible thing to do - but I agree, Stannard made Sagan truly work for it today, little push after little push, and that's unusual, and worth noting.

But hey, Sagan was mighty today all the same - while Nibili and Boonen were back in their buses, he and Old man cancellara were still thumping it out. you gotta like that.

 

[blackcat]

Well, I can remember David Harmon commentating on eurosport (in 2010?) saying that Froome is a real talent who can climb & timetrial, but not sure if he can stay healthy. First time I heard his name. Similarly he was waxing lyrical about Richie Porte in a different team around then too. He knows more about cycling than I do, and possible Hitch too (though not LS!)

the Brailsford and BC testing was obviously no secret.

Except to many in the Clinic who think he is donkey to racehorse personification, when he clearly is not.

clearly doping. clearly talented. clearly not donkey to racehorse phenomenon. Levi OTOH. massive bald head NOT NORMAL

 

[mattghg]

Two things from the Walsh article today that struck me:

I'm surprised that no-one (here) has made more of the fact that Sky hired Leinders initially partly on the recommendation of Steven de Jongh. I didn't know that before reading the article.

Steve Peters on interviewing Leinders for the job in the first place:

I could have grilled him and grilled him but when someone assures you that he has not been involved in doping, that doesn't seem appropriate

I wonder if it 'seems appropriate' to him now?

 

[blackcat]

EBH needs to go to Garmin. They let riders earn cash and not be obliged to dope over there. FDJ might be a better option. Let him go on lone long breaks in boring flat stages at the Tour.

If EBH got on the Dawg program he'd be close to a Tour winner.

But the boy just doesn't want inject his own blood.

The Dawg mustn't be able to look him in the eye.

They need to cut him loose. If he's not going to borg it up then get someone who will. Like Stannard.

if you dont pay respect to Froome, I will sick his partner onto you, and we know what she did to Cath Wigans. btw, while you're at it, buy that wife some lips yesterday.

 

[blackcat]

I've seen people threatened with bans for actually talking about cycling in the Clinic. It is nice to know that Cycling News is striving to keep the doping talk segregated and isolated. It fits in with the general ethos of pro cycling!

hhehhehe

quoted for pertinence

 

[Dear Wiggo]

They come to this training camp in Tenerife without a doctor, as Kerrison likes to strip things down when they’re in Teide. “There’s a time for giving the riders all the support and a time for focusing them on the things that matter. Up here we try to eliminate all the distractions.”

what the hell does that mean?

Tenerife is clearly a saddle sore free zone. You know. When the riders are training harder than they race, they don't get sick, or saddle sores. It's only in races or something where they need a doctor.

Let me say what I really mean: if you tell the truth, you NEVER have to remember what you said in the past. Ever. Just remember and retell what actually happened.

If it sounds like BS ("something about the gears and rolling resistance or something", "we do training camps without doctors, we try to eliminate all the distractions"), it probably is.

 

[blackcat]

yeah. they get to bank their 8 cortisone TUE's also

 

[DirtyWorks]

the Brailsford and BC testing was obviously no secret.

You hit on something that gets lost with the Sky program. Like USA Cycling/USPS, the national federation (BC) is the Sky program. Which, is nice when it comes time for anti-doping enforcement.

Now, does that mean automatically that Sky is doping and, more specifically, BC has some role in Sky's doping? No. Is it possible BC has some role protecting Sky? Absolutely. Is it likely? I don't know.

As posted in the MsR thread, Sky now has two classics leaders. Which is suspicious. Dropping in out of nowhere to clobber the field at MsR is really suspicious.

As I am still a cycling fan, Stannard's ride was part of a great race.