Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Dear Wiggo]

I dislike sky because they are turning cycling into a farce (again). They make the sport boring and predictable. What other team has dominated this much since us postal?

Oh, and the fact that theyre doing it all in the name of clean cycling makes it even more annoying.

This is my point. If the team doing all the dominating and making racing boring and predictable was Movistar, you would dislike them, wouldn't you? Sky would not even be on your radar.

Why?

Because Movistar would be making racing boring and predictable.

So remove the variable of "cycling team" and what you have left is what you are really against, what you really dislike: boring and predictable racing.

And the arrogance or whatever you want to call it of being able to make racing boring and predictable, whilst also claiming to be squeaky clean.

Personally, I hate cheating + lying. Whether that's an A grade club racer racing C grade and ripping everyone a new one or someone using artificial means to get the edge and er then rip everyone a new one.

At the moment, all fingers point to Sky and BC as the current crop that are doing that to everyone else.

In the 90s it was USPS and Armstrong.

 

[stefrees]

Look mate if I go to New Road this year I'll let you know, OK?

More than happy to meet you after a ploughmans lunch and a pint of banks"s to discuss cycling in the members at new road.....

 

[BroDeal]

clipless pedals/cleats = marginal gain
Tri bars = marginal gain
Teardrop helmet = marginal gain
Carbon frame = marginal gain
Tubular tyres = marginal gain
Electronic shifting = marginal gain
Skinsuits = marginal gain
Aero over shoes = marginal gain

Sport is full of them, its only the ones in soundbites from Sky staff that get the ridicule

You need to look up the definition of "marginal."

Tri bars = Large verifiable gain
Teardrop helmet = Large verifiable gain
Carbon frame = Simply making a frame out of carbon gives zero gain
Tubular tyres = Small loss versus clinchers
Electronic shifting = Zero gain
Skinsuits = Large verifiable gain
Aero over shoes = The one marginal gain in the list, but one out of seven is not something I would brag about.

Sky's margin gains are things like mood lighting, which is somewhat less of a marginal gain than voodoo, and warming down, which is something that taught in every PE class for the last hundred years or so.

 

[martinvickers]

then name 10 posters registered pre july 2012 that only contributed with anti sky material to the clinic.

It should be very easy if you are so fast on calling BS

complete strawman argument, Parrulo - such a poster is not the defintion of someone who is anti-sky. One can perfectly well bear a grudge against Sky in particular, and still take pot shots at other teams/riders.

Silly, self-serving argument to make, Parrulo.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

tsk tsk the old "strawman" defense being trotted out again, despite it not being a strawman.


Much easier to spot the pro-Sky lovers

 

[martinvickers]

tsk tsk the old "strawman" defense being trotted out again, despite it not being a strawman.

Well, it patently is - "show me proof of all these guys who have never posted on anything except sky" - was pretty obviously a strawman, because I never claimed such guys existed, that not being the definition.

And it's not a defence, it's a retort, and an accurate one whether you like it or not.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

<snip>

That's a yes. Sky lovers are very easy to spot.

 

[martinvickers]

That's a yes. Sky lovers are very easy to spot.

Pr!ck option it is then, DW. Fair enough, knock yourself out.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Pr!ck option it is then, DW. Fair enough, knock yourself out.

Hey don't feel bad, people still love Lance too, ya know?

I already posted an inductive argument not too far upthread. That you can't see the post is strange, but hey, there you have it.

Please tell us again that you hate Murdoch and couldn't care less about Sky, that'd be great. Adds so much to the discussion, not to mention ratchets up the authenticity of your arguments another level.

 

[martinvickers]

Hey don't feel bad, people still love Lance too, ya know?

Que?

Please tell us again that you hate Murdoch and couldn't care less about Sky, that'd be great. Adds so much to the discussion, not to mention ratchets up the authenticity of your arguments another level.

I don't remember ever mentioning The Digger before, not sure why you brought that up - but lets be clear, Australia spawned him, no matter what flag of convenience he flew thereafter.

I don't hate him, I've never met or dealt with the man, and he has damn all squared to do with the cycling team, that's his son's baby. In fact, in some ways Murdoch's kind of likable old cove, like your drunk racist uncle who tells great dirty jokes at weddings. Do I like his papers? Actually, I quite like the times sport section - Guy called Walsh works there, very good. the rest is fishwrap.

And my feelings on him change regularly, depending on what crap he's up to.

Now Murdock Jr is a permenant full on *** of my certain and personal knowledge. but that ain't got nothing to do with my feelings on Team sky.

As for Sky. Decent TV service, sh!t broadband.

And the boys on the bikes? Actually I find their project rather interesting. My 'fan' feelings are reserved for my countrymen (Pat excluded), none of whom so far as i know ride for the Borg. But I don't hate them. I watch them do their thing, and have a good think, and hope WADA and it's subsiduaries do their job. no more, no less.

But I admit I have come to rather enjoy watching the Clinicians get your panties bunched about them - if this place isn't going to be any use actually doing something about doping, I may as well get some entertainment value out of it, right?

 

[BroDeal]

Looks like that Skydiot Vickers is up to his usual ploy. He specializes in insulting people then crying to the mods that he is being abused when they respond. Give him what for, DW.

 

[sittingbison]

Give it a rest you lot. You know who you are.

Off topic bickering and insults will achieve only a single outcome, so please stop shooting the messenger.

 

[martinvickers]

Give it a rest you lot. You know who you are.

Off topic bickering and insults will achieve only a single outcome, so please stop shooting the messenger.

I suppose i should thank you for saving me from myself

message received.

 

[Ripper]

I would like to ask any anti sky clinicers for a beer and a chat, I'd love to meet you gus nd have a proper real life chat with a beer and understand where you guys come from. Any takers???

That might not be possible for folks living on other land masses.

Of course, I can tell you exactly where I come from WRT Sky - I don't buy what they are selling, and the method and degree of dominance from folks who were far from dominant pre-Sky is suspicious. And I have found that I (and a fair degree of cycling fans) have a strong BS meter. The thing is, once you've been taken a few times, you can go one of 3 directions -

1. Keep believing everything (=sucker ... not me)
2. Become cynical (not me)
3. Seriously question things that look 'too good to be true'

There you go. No need to fly to another country to have a drink!

 

[wannab]

judging by the length of this topic I guess Sky are still doping

you guys are so silly because Froome has exactly 5.9 (reborn) w/kg of clean power .. wasting your times

 

[observer]

marginal gains... the other side of the argument may well be that publicly they do talk a bit of cr@p. Potentially they have found a different legal method of doing some sort of training that makes them better, they just don't want to tell everyone their method, so they trot out marginal gains.

Could explain their show all at the end of last year never materialising.

The opposite side of the argument would be that, considering a high profile rider like Rogers is now riding for Saxo, they too should have the knowledge of these new methods. Therefore a secret will not stay a secret for very long.

Then you'd expect the rest of the peleton to catch up in the tour de france this year. We might potentially see Saxo riding with the same train like style up hills, side by side the sky train because their training secrets are out.

For me personally though, this seems like a load of crap. But lets see what happens come the grand tours this year.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

marginal gains... the other side of the argument may well be that publicly they do talk a bit of cr@p. Potentially they have found a different legal method of doing some sort of training that makes them better, they just don't want to tell everyone their method, so they trot out marginal gains.

Could explain their show all at the end of last year never materialising.

The opposite side of the argument would be that, considering a high profile rider like Rogers is now riding for Saxo, they too should have the knowledge of these new methods. Therefore a secret will not stay a secret for very long.

Then you'd expect the rest of the peleton to catch up in the tour de france this year. We might potentially see Saxo riding with the same train like style up hills, side by side the sky train because their training secrets are out.

For me personally though, this seems like a load of crap. But lets see what happens come the grand tours this year.

Secrets in this sports only stay that way for a very little time. People want to make money on new drugs and the circulation of staff will ensure pretty small transition periods.

 

[Winterfold]

You need to look up the definition of "marginal."

Tri bars = Large verifiable gain
Teardrop helmet = Large verifiable gain
Carbon frame = Simply making a frame out of carbon gives zero gain
Tubular tyres = Small loss versus clinchers
Electronic shifting = Zero gain
Skinsuits = Large verifiable gain
Aero over shoes = The one marginal gain in the list, but one out of seven is not something I would brag about.

Sky's margin gains are things like mood lighting, which is somewhat less of a marginal gain than voodoo, and warming down, which is something that taught in every PE class for the last hundred years or so.

Thanks for saving me the effort. Tribars marginal gain FFS it's 40 watts!

One thing I disagree with - electronic shifting on the front ring you can go from 39 to 53 at full gas - coming over the brow of a hill into a sprint it is a huge difference - especially over anyone with the SRAM red front mech made of tin foil. Ive tried it, I want it.

Schleck A might have won the tour on the road if he had di2

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Thanks for saving me the effort. Tribars marginal gain FFS it's 40 watts!

Off topic, for which I apologise...

It's a fairly uncontentious claim that Fignon would have won the '89 Tour had he ridden the final TT on tribars, but I've also read that if he'd cut off his ponytail then the reduced drag would have been enough to win as well, all other things equal. If true, that would be a Marginal Cut translating into a Marginal Gain. Not even Sky have managed such a logical shift!

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Off topic, for which I apologise...

It's a fairly uncontentious claim that Fignon would have won the '89 Tour had he ridden the final TT on tribars, but I've also read that if he'd cut off his ponytail then the reduced drag would have been enough to win as well, all other things equal. If true, that would be a Marginal Cut translating into a Marginal Gain. Not even Sky have managed such a logical shift!

Maybe that is why the sideburns have gone. Getting rid of them has clearly turned Wiggins into a more attacking rider.

 

[Galic Ho]

Trolling this, trolling that, so not one single person from here would meet for a drink to discuss? I've met with fellow football and cricket fans, it relly shows you clinicians to be utterly spineless

Sorry but the English weather and traveling all the way to the UK just to meet you ain't really high on any Aussies agenda. If you were a page 3 female model I can imagine that might change though.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Maybe that is why the sideburns have gone. Getting rid of them has clearly turned Wiggins into a more attacking rider.

I think you're onto something here. I always run faster after a very short haircut. Incontestible proof!

 

[spalco]

I'm still not convinced Sky's doping the way people are claiming here simply for the reason that it would be impossible (probably literally) for them to keep it a secret. What's the point of cheating if you know for nearly certain, everything you won will get taken away eventually anyway in a couple years? Especially with the example of USPS right in front of them.

I've said this before and I haven't heard anything to change my mind. I'm not blind or naive, Sky's successes are remarkable and in cycling extraordinary performances far too often meant cheating, I can see that. But there are real problems with the Sky=Gewiss theory. I do think times have changed in some ways.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

I think you're onto something here. I always run faster after a very short haircut. Incontestible proof!

If Wiggins could win the Tour De France carrying that extra weight, imagine what he could be capable of now he has got rid of it. Cyclists have been shaving their legs for years in order to lose that extra bit of weight. Incredible that Sky, with their so called 'Marginal gains' policy managed to miss this last year. This proof that their 'Marginal gains' policy is a fallacy and that they are doping. Rigo's hair is going to have to go next.

 

[horsinabout]

Trolling this, trolling that, so not one single person from here would meet for a drink to discuss? I've met with fellow football and cricket fans, it relly shows you clinicians to be utterly spineless

Well a meeting down at the docs is fine, but we are supposed to be anonymous. What do we do?, wear masks with our avatars gluded to them?