Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Don't be late Pedro]

Pleaso, do take a look at the Sky Classics squad. Who do you think is able on a 260K hilly course to stay with guys like Cancellara, Boonen in good form, Ballan?

EBH is 'toast' after 200K.
Stannard was very poorly placed on the Koppenberg, it is not that his DS Knaven is a newbie in Flandres?
Thomas, he needs some years of cobblestone experience it seems.
The only one I see in their lineup would could do well in Flandres is Eisel but I dont think they will ride for him. Guess Brailsford hasnt looked up his cobblestone stats...

Their chances for Roubaix are much higher, but still, cobbles dont lie.

Which teams showed something at Flanders? Lotto and that is about it. They were smart and obviously had a well thought out plan. Granted, plans can go out the window during the race but they at least tried something and got a result of the back of it.

It is not just Sky that don't seem to have much in the one day races. I think their riders are capable of better but their tactics are consistently poor.

 

[spalco]

Pleaso, do take a look at the Sky Classics squad. Who do you think is able on a 260K hilly course to stay with guys like Cancellara, Boonen in good form, Ballan?

On paper nobody, but as people have pointed out here many times, neither would it have been expected Sky to compete in the stage races like they have in the last two years.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Pleaso, do take a look at the Sky Classics squad. Who do you think is able on a 260K hilly course to stay with guys like Cancellara, Boonen in good form, Ballan?

EBH is 'toast' after 200K.
Stannard was very poorly placed on the Koppenberg, it is not that his DS Knaven is a newbie in Flandres?
Thomas, he needs some years of cobblestone experience it seems.
The only one I see in their lineup would could do well in Flandres is Eisel but I dont think they will ride for him. Guess Brailsford hasnt looked up his cobblestone stats...

Their chances for Roubaix are much higher, but still, cobbles dont lie.

Absolutely no chance: if Thomas has been close on the Kwaremont he would have gone backwards like EBH when Cancellara attacked. And if by some fluke he stayed he would have gone on the Paterberg.

But nothing you throw up here as reasons why they have underperformed is convincing as a doping argument. Sky look human, despite being holed up on Teide. Don't get me wrong, I would love for Thomas to have a real break out performance, maybe if he hadn't crashed he might have figured more but he didn't, so we'll wait for P-R and see if they can impress there, but I won't hold my breath.

B

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

On paper nobody, but as people have pointed out here many times, neither would it have been expected Sky to compete in the stage races like they have in the last two years.

Good point.

On the other hand, when you look at the last 2 classics seasons, it is fair to say they were owned by mister Jose Taus. How did his GT guys do in 2011 and 2012? Not comparable in my view. In GT's a lot depends on recuperation, Classics are something else.

When Bo Hagen is outsprinted by Turgot, Langeveld, Boom, Chavanel, I know enough on his 'engine'.

But nothing you throw up here as reasons why they have underperformed is convincing as a doping argument. Sky look human, despite being holed up on Teide. Don't get me wrong, I would love for Thomas to have a real break out performance, maybe if he hadn't crashed he might have figured more but he didn't, so we'll wait for P-R and see if they can impress there, but I won't hold my breath.

Because they have poor/no tactics they look human? Maybe the virus was in all of them, who knows. But, I am pretty sure Roubaix will suit them better.

But Sky werent the only fail team in Flandres, look at QuickStep.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Because they have poor/no tactics they look human? Maybe the virus was in all of them, who knows. But, I am pretty sure Roubaix will suit them better.

But Sky werent the only fail team in Flandres, look at QuickStep.

That misrepresents my point and you know it: performance wise they aren't competing, or is the story changing to say that they have the performance but not the tactics or luck? Does that mean you think Thomas could have lived with that Cancellara attack, or Stannard would have been up there but for poor positioning?

Thomas has crashed at crucial moments in both monuments so far, which obscures his true performance level, but what we have seen disclines me to think he's anywhere close to the level of Cancellara and Sagan.

If Sky do do well in P-R it will swing back the other way of course, and the thread will get floooded with sputterings of indignation, rather than the more measured, reasoned discussion here recently, which has been nice

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

That misrepresents my point and you know it: performance wise they aren't competing, or is the story changing to say that they have the performance but not the tactics or luck? Does that mean you think Thomas could have lived with that Cancellara attack, or Stannard would have been up there but for poor positioning?

You can put all the dope in a rider but there is a ceiling on ones physical abilities.

On Stannard, when you are so far back on the Koppenberg that would mean a poor placing or b not being okay. I take option a combination on both in Stannards case.

Thomas has crashed at crucial moments in both monuments so far, which obscures his true performance level, but what we have seen disclines me to think he's anywhere close to the level of Cancellara and Sagan.

When u are 4th in the 'mini Ronde' [E3] you have abilities, for sure. Flandres is 60K longer. More hectic. I actually was impressed he got back to the pack, the race was really on at that moment. Same for Gatto after he flatted, twice!

If Sky do do well in P-R it will swing back the other way of course, and the thread will get floooded with sputterings of indignation, rather than the more measured, reasoned discussion here recently, which has been nice

No, they were very good last year, they team time trialled against the best TT'er of the world of that day: Tommeke the One Man Team Time Trialler

Of course then they had Flecha, but Eisel, when fit, should be good. They will not win but they will be there.

 

[mattghg]

If Sky do do well in P-R it will swing back the other way of course, and the thread will get floooded with sputterings of indignation, rather than the more measured, reasoned discussion here recently, which has been nice

If (when) Sky do well in any race this season there will sputterings of indignation on this thread - probably around 5 pages of sarcastic remarks each time before reasoned discussion resumes.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Good points all, but as I said there is nothing really that should be screaming 'doper' in their performances, beyond the default position that everyone is doping.

But I did think the point of PEDs was that they, well enhance performance. Which means surely that physical limit can be surpassed and improved upon.

Anyway as usual we'll agree to disagree. Just enjoying the more measured approach in here, until the next time the Sky trains shreds the peloton.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Good points all, but as I said there is nothing really that should be screaming 'doper' in their performances, beyond the default position that everyone is doping.

But I did think the point of PEDs was that they, well enhance performance. Which means surely that physical limit can be surpassed and improved upon.

Anyway as usual we'll agree to disagree. Just enjoying the more measured approach in here, until the next time the Sky trains shreds the peloton.

Of course it can go both ways. Its possible that

The programme they are trying is not good enough to make in-roads for one day racing.

The riders are not good responders.

etc...

Sky are doing no worse than many of the other teams. As stated before, I think they can do better just by being more tactically astute. Of course, that is easy to say from a comfy sofa and not after 200km+ of cobble, climbs and general mayhem.

 

[thehog]

Those pesky French journalists are at it again.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/no-secrets-at-team-sky-says-portal

“We have no secrets, we follow our own path,” Portal told Biciciclismo, though he acknowledged that Sky’s success has not been universally popular. “But they are not comments from other riders, we don’t feel some thing special in the peloton. We’re following the best path we can, which is our own. We always have. We don’t have secrets.”

Sky’s startling level was highlighted starkly by their control of the final stage of Critérium International. After Vasil Kiryienka strung out the peloton on the lower slopes of the Col d’Ospedale, Chris Froome powered clear to claim the stage and overall victory, while Richie Porte jumped away from the chasers near the summit to complete a one-two for Team Sky.

“During Critérium International, some French journalists told me that the team was riding too strongly. But I said, [Jean-Christophe] Péraud was only 15 seconds down on Porte, is he too strong too? It’s not a big difference, just a few seconds in the last three kilometres,” Portal said.

While Sky’s “marginal gains” philosophy and training camps at Mount Teide are the subject of much interest and scrutiny, Portal said that the team’s recruitment policy was a hugely important part of its success.

“We simply have good people. The hardest job is to get the most out of every rider in every situation,” Portal said. “I think that cycling is much cleaner now and much truer. Everything is more normal now. Yes, we have a strong team but the others are too and it will much harder from now on because everybody is preparing for the Tour.”

 

[MartinGT]

I think its more to do with how they do well. I.e dropping people a-la the Dawg at Criterium, not long after Johan said if you wanted people shooting off keep doping, or to that effect.

Sky did well yesterday IMO, but to me, there was nothing standing out with their riders saying DOPERS! As there have been with The Dawg and Porte on previous races.

 

[Miburo]

“During Critérium International, some French journalists told me that the team was riding too strongly. But I said, [Jean-Christophe] Péraud was only 15 seconds down on Porte, is he too strong too? It’s not a big difference, just a few seconds in the last three kilometres,” Portal said.

If I remember correctly Peraud was about 15 seconds (maybe even more) ahead when Porte decided to destroy the field.

Sky really has a problem to get their facts straight.

 

[thehog]

If I remember correctly Peraud was about 15 seconds (maybe even more) ahead when Porte decided to destroy the field.

Sky really has a problem to get their facts straight.

And e Dawg was way way way up the road.

 

[thehog]

While his crack team of helmeted and designer-clad robots may be almost invincible in stage races, it is proving to be merely human on the one-day Classics circuit.

The beast that is British road champion Ian Stannard may have got in the top ten in the Milan-San Remo race last month, but further back in the peloton Olympic track hero Geraint Thomas can barely stay upright, crashing both in Italy and during Sunday’s Tour of Flanders.

There is no sign of the “Sky Train” that fills the hearts of other teams with dread as it ups the pace to a lung-busting crescendo in a bid to deter attacks.

Instead we have a ramshackle trail of black and blue, scattered the length of the peloton, with no obvious leader or strategy.

For all their work with power meters, wind tunnels and “marginal gains”, Sky haven’t quite worked out how to deal with the specialised demands of one-day races in northern Europe. Dave Brailsford must be sitting atop his volcano, stroking the Siamese cat in his lap and staring at a wall of TV screens all tuned to Eurosport HD, and wondering where it all went wrong.

Was it when an enemy agent attempted to take out Sir Bradley Wiggins outside a Lancashire petrol station? Or was it when a TV documentary revealed that ex-head coach Shane Sutton lived in a bedsit above a bike repair shop and ironed his clothes on the floor?

Or is it simply that one-day racing requires a bit more imagination, thought and derring-do than merely pounding out the watts for hour after hour? Sky's riders should be seizing the moment rather than strangling the race.

Clearly, Brailsford will now be under pressure to get things right in time for Paris-Roubaix this weekend. Wiggins will probably be the team leader. Maybe if he can show the same, swashbuckling aggression he showed towards the rest of his team during the Tour of Catalunya last month, Sky can salvage something from what is turning into an extremely disappointing Classics season.

http://www.highonbikes.com/blog/the-team-sky-train-derailed-by-the-cobbles-of-the-classics/#.U

 

[JimmyFingers]

Unfunny, inaccurate and largely irrelevant, although did spot this:

And all because the evil Death Star that is Team Sky has been exposed as an ordinary group of mortals after all

 

[MatParker117]

I have a strong suspicion that Sky may just throw money at Cancellara to solve there classics problems.

 

[del1962]

I have a strong suspicion that Sky may just throw money at Cancellara to solve there classics problems.

With Fuente's fallout?

 

[thehog]

with fuente's fallout?

ztp.






......

 

[JimmyFingers]

http://www.highonbikes.com/blog/the-team-sky-train-derailed-by-the-cobbles-of-the-classics/#.U

On the bike ride home I was thinking about this 'good-performance-but-tactically-inept' narrative that's beginning to emerge from Sky's classics. In most of races they have been there at the sharp end of the race:

At the Omloop Thomas bridged to the front group, although missed the decisive move and finished at the top end of G2

Stannard made the decisive break at M-SR with Chavanel, forcing Sagan and Cancellara to bridge, bringing with them Ciolek. At that point the gig is up: Stannard lacks the weapons to hurt the riders around him, despite a folorn attack.

At Dwars Stannard and Hayman are in the elite group, Voekler slips away, Stannard does most of the chasing and Haymen gets third.

At E3 Thomas made the selection but couldn't go with Cancellara when he escaped on the Kwaremont.

At Gent Eisel found himself in the front group, but couldn't go with Sagan when he powered away.

At Ronde EBH was right on the wheel of Sagan as Cancellara attacked on the Kwaremont, the perfect place to be, but simply lacked the legs to stay with them.

At worst you could say the tactics need tweaking, and riders like Thomas lack experience (and perhaps some bike-handling skills) to know when to attack, but ultimately they have been beaten by better riders on the day, pure and simple.

OPQS' leader has crashed twice and they've done little decisive, are they tactically inept?

 

[thehog]

Think my sarcasm meter was screwy, because I think that article may be poking fun at you and your ilk Hoggo.

Also on the bike ride home I was thinking about this 'good-performance-but-tactically-inept' narrative that's beginning to emerge from Sky's classics. In most of races they have been there at the sharp end of the race:

More importantly.

Do you race girls on 3 speeds and sprint away at the stop signs?

What's your Strava record for the ride home from work loop?

Do you tuck your trousers into your socks when you cycle to work?

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Good to see that Jimmy and Thehog are now friends.

On the subject of Sky in the classics, were they really that bad? 4th in the Omloop, 6th in MSR, 3rd and 9th in DDV, 4th in E3 and 7th in GW. Probably a par set of results given their riders. It's only being classed as a disappointment because it doesn't match up to their record in stage races and because certain people here thought they would return from Tenerife riding like Superman.

 

[JimmyFingers]

More importantly.

Do you race girls on 3 speeds and sprint away at the stop signs?

What's your Strava record for the ride home from work loop?

Do you tuck your trousers into your socks when you cycle to work?

Wow, the fun never stops with you Hoggo.

Since these are important questions, I'll give them the attention they deserve

 

[JimmyFingers]

Good to see that Jimmy and Thehog are now friends.

On the subject of Sky in the classics, were they really that bad? 4th in the Omloop, 6th in MSR, 3rd and 9th in DDV, 4th in E3 and 7th in GW. Probably a par set of results given their riders. It's only being classed as a disappointment because it doesn't match up to their record in stage races and because certain people here thought they would return from Tenerife riding like Superman.

As a great man once said, I had a dog and his name was BINGO!

Maybe poor results by Sky standards, but a decent fist of the classics so far, they just lack a top puncheur

 

[the sceptic]

Im sure Wiggo could become the best classics rider in the world if he could be bothered, Froome too.

 

[The Hitch]

I have a strong suspicion that Sky may just throw money at Cancellara to solve there classics problems.

based on what? cav is the only world top 20 rider they ever signed, and he was British. Theyve never shown anything to suggest that they would just go out there and pinch the best riders in the world. those who say Sky did that are lying. Just ask them to provide some examples.