Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[masking_agent]

This antibiotic for a saddle sore just sounds awfully familiar..

Wiggins had trained in Mallorca before arriving in Italy for the Giro del Trentino. He told Gazzetta that he has been on antibiotics “for the last two or three days” due to a saddle sore and he confirmed that he will not line up at next Sunday’s Liège-Bastogne-Liège: “Doing it two days after Trentino would be too stressful.”

or am I reading too much into Lance's excuse for his saddle sore excuse ?

 

[armchairclimber]

It's very suspicious. Saddle sores are such a rare condition.

 

[thehog]

This antibiotic for a saddle sore just sounds awfully familiar..

Wiggins had trained in Mallorca before arriving in Italy for the Giro del Trentino. He told Gazzetta that he has been on antibiotics “for the last two or three days” due to a saddle sore and he confirmed that he will not line up at next Sunday’s Liège-Bastogne-Liège: “Doing it two days after Trentino would be too stressful.”

or am I reading too much into Lance's excuse for his saddle sore excuse ?

Generally used to mask up the use of another drug.

Log it in the TuE, flood the blood stream and mess up the makers.

GW69696969 drops out of LBL

He'll be fine. Should win the Giro. 6 minutes.

 

[armchairclimber]

Generally used to mask up the use of another drug.

Log it in the TuE, flood the blood stream and mess up the makers.

GW69696969 drops out of LBL

He'll be fine. Should win the Giro. 6 minutes.

They don't need to do that, silly, with their free pass from the UCI. Get with it.

 

[Bexon30]

Kiri did similar things at Movistar, though. His stage win in the 2011 Giro was insane, he was in a breakaway all day yet he rode up the last two mountains faster than the peloton. That was certainly better than anything he's done on Sky yet.

If Kiri is doping, then he's always been doping and Sky's doping doesn't seem to be particularly better than what he used to take...

Yea I get that, he could almost justify one stage or great day in the saddle going all out. But wasn't he pulling for like 1/2 days previous to the mentioned day? Anyway I agree he is a beast just love to know numbers he churns out!they would be bigger than last years Dodger IMO.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Eh? Surely Pinotti (and any professional rider / DS) have more right than most of us to comment on what they suspect another team may or may not be doing..

Even if you suspect them of not being entirly honest about their own choices previously...

I'm grateful the pro's want to make any comments

I don't know about Pinotti's past, but certainly his present is one of the more encouraging ones in the péloton.

My problem is not that (I have hope that Pinotti is clean), but what he hasn't said about Santambrogio/Ballan/Rihs/Ochowicz/Lelangue/Aldag/Holm/Zabel etc etc.

And there is far more against those names than there is against Sky.

How much did David Moncoutié say about Gaumont, or Millar, or Vandenbroucke, or Rutkiewicz, or the others he rode with? Sure, there's plenty of suspicious names that Pinotti has been around (and I have my concerns about High Road bearing in mind the number of riders who've suffered massive drops in level for a period of time after leaving them). But just because somebody doesn't talk about the guys around them doesn't mean they can't be clean or suspect somebody else, it just makes their account a bit limited.

But after this Pinotti is quite happy to set up photo opputunities with Lance and seems to like him in 2009 and even though he know in 2011 that Lance is a doper, his attitude to Lance is a lot softer than his attitude towards De Luca from my reading of the article.

Maybe Pinotti felt that cycling had changed in that time and bearing in mind at that point Lance was still paying lip service to it all being about cancer awareness, Pinotti was naïve enough to take him on his word?

Kiri did similar things at Movistar, though. His stage win in the 2011 Giro was insane, he was in a breakaway all day yet he rode up the last two mountains faster than the peloton. That was certainly better than anything he's done on Sky yet.

If Kiri is doping, then he's always been doping and Sky's doping doesn't seem to be particularly better than what he used to take...

Kiryienka's always been this kind of engine. Him doing this is not all that surprising. At Tinkoff he'd be blasting day long breaks, and Arroyo has him to thank for his Vuelta stage since Kiryienka carried him all the way to the line solo (Arroyo was monitoring the break for Valverde behind). Movistar basically signed him on that performance, and set him to work as Valverde's minder. When let off the leash in 2011 he won the Route du Sud, a País Vasco stage, was on the podium of the Critérium International and won that epic Giro stage where he rode with his sunglasses on at the end despite the grim weather because he didn't want people to see him crying. Putting him into péloton pulling duty is not a surprise because Sky have a strong hierarchy and this is what he's really good at.

Track rider turned beast! No wonder he's strong. Probably win Tour one day.

He rode for Tinkoff and Casse so most certainly clean

Two Giro wins in 7 years as a Pro.

Surprised no one saw this talent before.

They did. Don't misrepresent his palmarès. For one thing it's much better than you acknowledge:

2007:
7th, Tirreno-Adriatico
1 stage, Elektrotoer
8th, Österreich Rundfahrt
1 stage, Vuelta a Burgos
2008:
7th, Vuelta a Murcía
1 stage and 2 2nds, Giro d'Italia
2nd, Ster Elektrotoer
2nd in a stage, Vuelta a España
2009:
16th in the Vuelta as 3rd domestique (Rodríguez and Moreno were ahead of him in the food chain)
2010:
2nd in a stage, Tour de France
2011:
2nd, Critérium International
10th & a stage, Vuelta al País Vasco
1 mountain stage, Giro d'Italia
1st, Route du Sud
2012:
6th, Critérium du Dauphiné
3rd, World Championships ITT

You know he has a much stronger palmarès than you were giving him credit for. Besides, palmarès isn't everything. Sylwester Szmyd has one stage win (in the Dauphiné) in a 12-year career, but most people are happy to acknowledge that until recently he was possibly the best mountain domestique in the péloton. Winning races wasn't his job, and in the races where he could win he was domestiquing, and the races where he got his freedom he wasn't rounded enough to compete for the win.

If Sylwester Szmyd got on the front on a mountain stage in the Tour and started shredding the field for Valverde or Quintana, would you go ballistic about him coming from nowhere? If not, then don't about Kiryienka either.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Ok, I do apologize if you took my post as obnoxious.

However, you jumped in on a post that did not mention you and introduced yourself in to it. You are not the Sky representative here. No need to take something that was not about you personally.
I don't know you, and quite frankly dont need to, so in that context I don't really care about you, I do like and appreciate your input even if at different times I agree of disagree.

The apology is appreciated. My ire was raised by being the implication I was dishonest, and yes while I'm not the Sky representative here I am frequently referred to as Sky fanboy, skybot or borg or whatever the infantile nickname du jour is. In my defence it was a very scattergun accusation which is why I was looking for clarification from the poster.

 

[thehog]

The apology is appreciated. My ire was raised by being the implication I was dishonest, and yes while I'm not the Sky representative here I am frequently referred to as Sky fanboy, skybot or borg or whatever the infantile nickname du jour is. In my defence it was a very scattergun accusation which is why I was looking for clarification from the poster.

Skyborgs are riders. You're a Skybot.

Sent back in time to defend Sky against the massive doping scandal that will occur in 2013.

 

[thehog]

You know he has a much stronger palmarès than you were giving him credit for. Besides, palmarès isn't everything. Sylwester Szmyd has one stage win (in the Dauphiné) in a 12-year career, but most people are happy to acknowledge that until recently he was possibly the best mountain domestique in the péloton. Winning races wasn't his job, and in the races where he could win he was domestiquing, and the races where he got his freedom he wasn't rounded enough to compete for the win.

If Sylwester Szmyd got on the front on a mountain stage in the Tour and started shredding the field for Valverde or Quintana, would you go ballistic about him coming from nowhere? If not, then don't about Kiryienka either.

Keep your pigtails straight. They're all twisted.

I get it. You don't like me.

But don't let your hatred or me get in the way if your excellent posting.

Let it be.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Yea I get that, he could almost justify one stage or great day in the saddle going all out. But wasn't he pulling for like 1/2 days previous to the mentioned day? Anyway I agree he is a beast just love to know numbers he churns out!they would be bigger than last years Dodger IMO.

I think Libertine's summation of Kiriyenka's abilities above is impressive and should assuage some of your doubts. And although the TV coverage madit look like he was bossing the peloton for a couple of days it didn't show the work of the other Sky domestiques earlier in the stages, just Kiri's work at the sharp end.

I think he's a great signing for Sky, and his suplesse and technique is certainly robotic enough to make all the 'fun' nicknames stick.

 

[will10]

It's very suspicious. Saddle sores are such a rare condition.

It wasn't when they had Geert. Boy are they missing him this year, saddle sores left right and centre.

 

[JimmyFingers]

It wasn't when they had Geert. Boy are they missing him this year, saddle sores left right and centre.

I had that once. Oof

 

[will10]

Kiryienka's been an animal for years. Making his name at Tinkoff doesn't exactly bode well in terms of being clean but he's not made any huge performance gain since going to Sky. Much more concerning are Porte and Froome and the resurrection of Michael Rogers.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Keep your pigtails straight. They're all twisted.

I get it. You don't like me.

But don't let your hatred or me get in the way if your excellent posting.

Let it be.

That's where you're wrong though, hog. I do like you. Just sometimes I think you're a bit unfair on riders, and that was one of them.

 

[Bexon30]

I think Libertine's summation of Kiriyenka's abilities above is impressive and should assuage some of your doubts. And although the TV coverage madit look like he was bossing the peloton for a couple of days it didn't show the work of the other Sky domestiques earlier in the stages, just Kiri's work at the sharp end.

I think he's a great signing for Sky, and his suplesse and technique is certainly robotic enough to make all the 'fun' nicknames stick.

Fair points, Jim and Lib but he now can recover to put in shift day after day. I suppose we will sim him in full charge at the Tour. Powers of recovery are really a thing nowdays that need questioning. And if Sylvestor rode people off his wheels to a MTF win then I would be slightly suspicious personally.

Edit: And Jim take your point about coverage it is hard to fully know how much works been done early on, very fair point.

 

[The Hitch]

just talk.....................but i don't think he has always been clean

writing 'andy.........implicated' was me agreeing that wiggo was making valid
accusations

Mark L

The son of a former pro cyclist who podiumed the giro at 21, peaks once a year and is hopeless at everything bar climbing. You dont think he has always been clean.

The trackie who improved his tt massively while learning to climb from scratch, can sprint, climb, prologue, descent tackle hills, peak all year round, wins any race he wants, wins the tour de france in a 3 week proccession at 32, on the other hand.

You got to love the consistency with which the fanboys look at these things.

 

[armchairclimber]

The trackie who improved his tt massively while learning to climb from scratch, can sprint, climb, prologue, descent tackle hills, peak all year round, wins any race he wants, wins the tour de france in a 3 week proccession at 32, on the other hand.

Chortle. You're a good turn.
Are you after Hog's "King of Comedy" crown?

Why not "The son of a pro cyclist who was world class from a young age, multiple olympic champion on the track who learned, over time, to ride a top class road TT...learning to climb well enough to defend a large TT lead through the Tour de France mountains against the weakest field for years whilst being dragged around and protected by the strongest team seen since US Postal".

 

[The Hitch]

Chortle. You're a good turn.
Are you after Hog's "King of Comedy" crown?

Why not "The son of a pro cyclist who was world class from a young age, multiple olympic champion on the track who learned, over time, to ride a top class road TT...learning to climb well enough to defend a large TT lead through the Tour de France mountains against the weakest field for years whilst being dragged around and protected by the strongest team seen since US Postal".

strongest team since us postal my ****. on paper that team was average. And even not on paper the 2009 Astana team was better. Not that youd know anything about what happened all those years covered in the bbc news 2 minute summary of Armstrong, and wiggins.

 

[armchairclimber]

strongest team since us postal my ****. on paper that team was average. And even not on paper the 2009 Astana team was better. Not that youd know anything about what happened all those years covered in the bbc news 2 minute summary of Armstrong, and wiggins.

Oh no, I know nothing. You're quite right. I'm a newbie. A fanboi. A Skybot. A jingoistic Brit.

My version was just as close to the truth...or distant from it....as yours.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Fair points, Jim and Lib but he now can recover to put in shift day after day. I suppose we will sim him in full charge at the Tour. Powers of recovery are really a thing nowdays that need questioning. And if Sylvestor rode people off his wheels to a MTF win then I would be slightly suspicious personally.

Kiryienka hasn't been riding people off his wheels to an MTF win though. His wins have been from the break. He's been doing nothing different to what Szmyd's been doing: getting on the front and burning the group to pieces with his pace.

The difference is that in 2009-10 when Szmyd was tearing people's legs off, when he was done, he swung off and Basso took over. When Vasil swings off, Sky still have three guys left in the group, none of whom would have had any business being within minutes of the front group at the point when Szmyd had done his job and Basso took over three years ago.

 

[Ferminal]

CSC 2008 was better on paper, maybe even in the dope department too. Same for Bruyneel's mob the next year, not that you would call them a cohesive unit.

 

[Caruut]

Chortle. You're a good turn.
Are you after Hog's "King of Comedy" crown?

Why not "The son of a pro cyclist who was world class from a young age, multiple olympic champion on the track who learned, over time, to ride a top class road TT...learning to climb well enough to defend a large TT lead through the Tour de France mountains against the weakest field for years whilst being dragged around and protected by the strongest team seen since US Postal".

How do you learn to climb like that, is there some kind of school?

 

[The Hitch]

yeah he learnt to "defend" his time in the mountains.

Learnt to defend so well in the mountains that when he looked over his own shoulder every other rider in the race was dropped.

Took time on every other rider in at least 2 of the mountain stages (except hillariously, his own domestique cum Tour de France champion elect)

 

[Caruut]

A pre-emptive strike, if you will.

 

[BYOP88]

yes it's a bit ridiculous. was it when he said "who knows I might be the winner of tdf 2009" or something like that?

Impossible, because Lance was at the 2009 TdF and Wiggins did come up with this gem a few months ago 'I never raced against Lance'. So if Wiggins is claiming the '09 Tour I'm going to claim it too.