Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[peterst6906]

..., I just hear him winding you guys up, and enjoying it....

What you hear is exactly that. It's you.

It's your projection of what you want to believe he is doing. It's far from your claim of needing evidence and is 100% faith based on your personal view of Wigans.

However, since you want to believe Wigans is having a dig directly at several posters in the Clinic, that would be clear evidence that he sees this place as relevant and important enough to take a swipe at.

If that's the case, then what makes this place so important that the current TdF champion would feel compelled to mention it?

 

[Franklin]

And I for one, think Sky are clean...not perfect, dreadful parent company, but clean ethos in cycling. But, unlike most posters here, I think I'm open to evidence that might point in another direction, which is why I bother to look here from time to time.

I know this is just your opinion, but that is really debatable. And yes, there is newish stuff on that subject, namely the continued blatant lieing of Dave Brailsford about Leinders (onto the ridiculous).

Even if they want to do it clean, Brailsford clearly has questionable ethics.

 

[Scott SoCal]

I am starting to tire of comparisons with Armstrong......just because he happened, doesn't mean to say he'll happen again (well, not 7 in a row, anyway)
I also think Wiggins is way smarter than most folk here give him credit for, and when goes on about Armstrong's effect on cycling, I just hear him winding you guys up, and enjoying it.
BUT, Wiggins isn't Armstrong.
And I for one, think Sky are clean...not perfect, dreadful parent company, but clean ethos in cycling. But, unlike most posters here, I think I'm open to evidence that might point in another direction, which is why I bother to look here from time to time.
I haven't seen anything NEAR conclusive, nor anything fresh for a while, but maybe I've missed something?

Why would Wigans wax poetically about LA when everybody with a pulse knew he was a doper of epic proportions?

Just in terms of cycling IQ, that's pretty stupid.... if you are clean.

 

[blackcat]

Not to be take the wrong way, but I'm having some trouble with your vernacular!

I don't know what to make of the following.......

dawg
sisyphus in vaughters territory,
if it comes down to mano a mano.
queensberry rules

sisyphus had to roll a boulder uphill in greek mythology http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sisyphus

 

[blackcat]

froome-dog (phonetic dawg) is his luvvie dovie nickame by his girlfriend michelle.

queensberry rules is boxing rules http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marquess_of_Queensberry_Rules

and idiom for "fighting fair"

my point was Froome is not fighting with both hands, because the deck is stacked against him.

If it is Froome v Wiggins, it is iteration mkII Contador v Armstrong. And Froome will have no friends inside sky.

 

[blackcat]

I know this is just your opinion, but that is really debatable. And yes, there is newish stuff on that subject, namely the continued blatant lieing of Dave Brailsford about Leinders (onto the ridiculous).

Even if they want to do it clean, Brailsford clearly has questionable ethics.

Sir David to you

 

[blackcat]

Not believable.

Not believable.

folks, correct terminology is NOT NORMAL

 

[Mr. McQ]

He has to invent strawmen because the truth hurts too much. Millar, while off the sauce after his suspension, was a better time trialist than Wiggins. He had better results against better competition. While Wiggins was winning short time trials in crap races like Qatar and the Herald Sun Tour, Millar was winning stages in the Vuelta. What is more, in smaller stage races Millar did not simply save himself for one time trial stage, he tried to stay in contention for a high result overall. And Millar was not exactly a consistent top tier time trialist. He was second tier. Then, suddenly, the amazing fabulous incredible Wiggins transformation and suddenly he is as good as Cancellara and Martin. This transformation was from a guy who spent all his previous road racing focusing on time trials as the only type of race he could win. Where was the room for improvement other than drugs? Not believable.

You

Are

Trolling

SBW is a rider with class. The field is getting cleaner.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Yep, my bad You and brodeal are right I am wrong and I apologise. And in return please accept that I am in no way a fanboy. And on that bombshell I will take my leave of the forum, it really does bring out the worst in people (my opinion of course!).

If Elmo ever retires, you'd be perfect for Sesame Street.

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

You

Are

Trolling

SBW is a rider with class. The field is getting cleaner.

Ho hum sigh

 

[blackcat]

check how big his head has become on his next tv interview.


NOT NORMAL

 

[Hugh Januss]

Ho hum sigh.

Oh no, I'm sure he is right, it's so much "kleaner" now. After all there is no more reason or advantage to doping. We have won, mission accomplished.

 

[beowulf]

And Froome will have no friends inside sky.

It will not matter at this year's tour. The way Froome is riding all he will have to do is sit in the Sky Train and then kick away when there are no other teammates left to help Wiggins.

I think Wiggins will struggle in this year's struggle and he will be lucky to podium.

Of course I could also be wrong.

 

[Ripper]

It will not matter at this year's tour. The way Froome is riding all he will have to do is sit in the Sky Train and then kick away when there are no other teammates left to help Wiggins.

I think Wiggins will struggle in this year's struggle and he will be lucky to podium.

Of course I could also be wrong.

It would be entertaining to see Wiggo crack and just lose it. He seems to have some mental issues at the best of times, and his comments to the press lack class, so it would be pure entertainment.

 

[beowulf]

It would be entertaining to see Wiggo crack and just lose it. He seems to have some mental issues at the best of times, and his comments to the press lack class, so it would be pure entertainment.

We can only hope.

 

[ebandit]

giro

It would be entertaining to see Wiggo crack and just lose it. He seems to have some mental issues at the best of times, and his comments to the press lack class, so it would be pure entertainment.

don't think that you will be waiting long to see this.............be sure to tune
in for the giro

expect a more 'honest' performance?

Mark L

 

[coinneach]

It would be entertaining to see Wiggo crack and just lose it. He seems to have some mental issues at the best of times, and his comments to the press lack class, so it would be pure entertainment.

So, to follow your logic, someone with mental health issues cracking would be pure entertainment.

I am glad I don't bump into you in dark alleyways.

Perhaps you could clarify which rider you think speaks to the press with more class, and which clean rider you'd rather see win a race?

 

[ebandit]

opinion

Why do all the skybots "have their doubts" about sky? either you think theyre clean or you think theyre doping.

ALL? sounds unrealistic to me........surely a 'skybot' would be certain that team sky are clean

we all have our opinions what is of greater importance is what team sky are
actually doing

a clinic poll resulting in 100% thought that team sky are doping would still make no difference to actual events

Mark L

 

[MartinGT]

I am starting to tire of comparisons with Armstrong......just because he happened, doesn't mean to say he'll happen again (well, not 7 in a row, anyway)
I also think Wiggins is way smarter than most folk here give him credit for, and when goes on about Armstrong's effect on cycling, I just hear him winding you guys up, and enjoying it.
BUT, Wiggins isn't Armstrong.
And I for one, think Sky are clean...not perfect, dreadful parent company, but clean ethos in cycling. But, unlike most posters here, I think I'm open to evidence that might point in another direction, which is why I bother to look here from time to time.
I haven't seen anything NEAR conclusive, nor anything fresh for a while, but maybe I've missed something?

We heard this kind of BS with Festina,PDM, Telekom etc and we will hear it again after USPS and we will hear it again no doubt.

 

[mattghg]

Hah... I'm not a Skybot and I'm having doubts.

There is still no solid evidence against Froome or Wiggins. Speeds last year were indeed low, the course was indeed tailored to Brad's strengths. There are a lot of questionmarks (everyone should know by now what I think of Leinders^^), but proof? No.

OK, OK.

There is however more than enough reason to kick Dave Brailsford from this sport.

Eh? Why?

 

[Franklin]

Eh? Why?

1. Not aherring to his own ethical mantra by employing several people who were dirty.
2. Hiring a doctor he fully well knew was very dirty *
3. Lieing about the reason why he hired him.
4. Continued lieing about Leinders employment.

And before you think I'm to harsh wanting to ban him, even Wiggins fully acknowledged the insiduous problems dirty doctors are. He wanted riders to be banned for associating with them. Willingly employing them as team doctor is several degrees worse in my opinion. In this it's also interesting to look how garmin reacts when a rider still visits a contaminated doctor. JV kicks him out and that's because JV exactly knows what it means.


* The chances of not having done a rudimentary background check on the doctor who takes care of the most vital assets (your best riders) is bizarre. The continued "he didn't know, it was a human error, these things happen", are both extremely unlikely and secondly they are no excuse

- Dave Brailsford fully well knows what can happen as he saw the drama of David Millar first hand. If anyone knows what can happen with a rogue doctor it should be Dave Brailsford.
- Dave brailsford has been an insider for years. Leinders was one the three top managers of Rabo (he wasn't just a doctor). It's extremely unlikely he himself or one of his advisors never heard of him.
- The Rabo scandal of 2007 was one of the biggest scandals hitting this sport. The likelihood of employing a Rabo Doctor/manager, yet overseeing his tenure at that time is bizarre.

And to finish IF Dave really was an idiot, he deserves to be fired for being an incompetent bungler. Just as riders are responsible for their own supplements and food, a director is responsible for hiring personel. You can't hide behind incompetence.

But we all know he isn't a bungler.

 

[mikehammer67]

OK, OK.



Eh? Why?

he said sky wouldn't hire people with a doping past

they then did the opposite?

 

[Ferminal]

Well he hasn't admitted to anyone having had a doping past, so innocent until proven guilty.

 

[mattghg]

The chances of not having done a rudimentary background check on the doctor who takes care of the most vital assets (your best riders) is bizarre. The continued "he didn't know, it was a human error, these things happen", are both extremely unlikely and secondly they are no excuse

OK I can see that it comes down to this, thanks for clarifying.

 

[Franklin]

Well he hasn't admitted to anyone having had a doping past, so innocent until proven guilty.

If you are talking Leinders I must correct you

He was actually implicated by a judge in the Rabo-vs-Chicken case. Leinders can deny all he wants, a judge already found him guilty of whereabouts fraud.

But just as the Fuentes case, Leinders wasn't on trial, so he didn't get a ban (instead his employer had to cough up a wad of cash to Rasmussen) and the sporting unions decided to happily ignore it.

This is just another reason why I find the outrage against "Spanish" justice extremely hypocritical. For example the Netherlands have done NOTHING against doping in all those years.

Humanplasma is another fine joke.

Freiburg anyone?

Name a country where there actually was more action against doping than Italy or Spain?