Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Alphabet]

Okay. So if Movistar and Saxo are 'the most doped teams' at this year's Tour, then how come Froome, by himself, is better than the combined resources of both teams?

 

[Pulpstar]

Is it possible Kiryenka was told to miss the time frame because he might be tested positive otherwise? Maybe he overdid the juice a bit an Brailsford got nervous...

If a rider miss the time frame he doesn't get tested right?

I find it hard to beleive a strong guy like Kiryenka can't make the time.. And also he was very close to the limit so it looks ugly..

Why would he not be still tested ?

Vini Fantini showed us in the Giro that eratic results are no proof of not doping.
A rider with a very poor unexpected result should absolutely be tested.

I'm not saying he is or isn't but riders who miss the time cut should absolutely be tested, particularly if they are uninjured.

 

[EnacheV]

Lol no way, movistar maybe but then again Quintana and Valverde are probably twice as talented as Froome and Porte so it's only natural for Movistar to look stronger.

Nah, i think Froome and Porte are 5x more talented than Contador and Valverde and 7-8x times more talented than Quintana.

You see, i can put numbers out of my hat too

Froome will win 3-4 TDF's

 

[mrhender]

Why would he not be still tested ?

Vini Fantini showed us in the Giro that eratic results are no proof of not doping.
A rider with a very poor unexpected result should absolutely be tested.

I'm not saying he is or isn't but riders who miss the time cut should absolutely be tested, particularly if they are uninjured.

Actally i am not quite sure, but to the best of my knowledge the dont test riders that miss the time frame...

And you are absolutely right -they should test "bad" performances *** well...

We all know Armstrong deliberitly quit a race in early season making illness excutions because he wanted to avoid testing..

 

[mikehammer67]

David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST 13m
@mike73nz Mike, one of difficulties of power data, numbers depend on who's doing calculations. Will write on this in this wk's Sunday Times.

walsh is doing some piece on the difficulties of interpreting power data

where have i heard this before

then his piece on doping in the TDF will be after that lol

 

[thehog]

David Walsh ‏@DavidWalshST 13m
@mike73nz Mike, one of difficulties of power data, numbers depend on who's doing calculations. Will write on this in this wk's Sunday Times.

walsh is doing some piece on the difficulties of interpreting power data

where have i heard this before

then his piece on doping in the TDF will be after that lol

The article titled "Pseudo science"?

 

[LaFlorecita]

Nah, i think Froome and Porte are 5x more talented than Contador and Valverde and 7-8x times more talented than Quintana.

You see, i can put numbers out of my hat too

Froome will win 3-4 TDF's

He'll lose them again soon enough though.

 

[EnacheV]

He'll lose them again soon enough though.

Well, if that happens, he will be in a stellar company of the likes of pantani, armstrong, contador, etc. Nothing to be ashamed Seems like dopers have a lot of fans if they are succesfull.

 

[martinvickers]

I wish Törku Seker Spor could afford all the smoke and mirrors.

really? an odd thing to say for someone who's, presumably, opposed to doping...

 

[webbie146]

Well, if that happens, he will be in a stellar company of the likes of pantani, armstrong, contador, etc. Nothing to be ashamed Seems like dopers have a lot of fans if they are succesfull.

Yes when a rider is actually a bad-*** on the bike with a cool style the dope part can be ignored.

When u look like u are pushing a shopping cart uphill when climbing not so much lol..

I will remember Armstrong for being a boss and controlling everything, giving the look. I will remember Contador for his sick attacks and fighting spirit. I will remember Pantani for his amazing climbing style.

I won't remember Froome. Only thing I might remember in a few year is his anorexia almost dieing look.

Also La Flo was right, don't even go compare Froome/Valverde/Quintana talent wise. Froome is a chemical engineered project.

 

[sniper]

The article titled "Pseudo science"?

that's gonna be one fluffy piece by walsh.
what about "Fluff science"?

 

[zlev11]

it's pretty cool that all this time it turns out that Walsh was just a jingoistic moron

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Actally i am not quite sure, but to the best of my knowledge the dont test riders that miss the time frame...

And you are absolutely right -they should test "bad" performances *** well...

We all know Armstrong deliberitly quit a race in early season making illness excutions because he wanted to avoid testing..

Your knowledge is wrong. Riders are tested whether they make the time cut, finish first or abandon. Their position or even finishing is irrelevant. They still have to check the list and make sure they are not on it.

cf Bassons being on the list despite abandoning national MTB champs.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Funny thing about power meters is there's no interpretation required at all. Having seen 100s if not 1000s of power files from clean athletes, it's very, very simple to see what is happening.

Very.

Simple.

Anyone saying anything otherwise is towing a party line.

And FOS.

 

[The Hitch]

I do wonder what would have happened if Wiggins had not crashed the 2011 Tour.

Sky Wiggins and the British media were saying he could win the Tour. Of course i and others dismissed it, but looking at in in hindsight he won the Dauphine and if he was as good as in 2012, the way the mountains were raced it would actually have been very possible.

Of course even if he had merely podiumed, he would not have done the Vuelta.

Froome however would. And without wiggins to wait for he would have won it easy.

And we would have been spared all this BS about Froome gradually improving. It would have gone down as the most shocking GT victory in modern times.

What a shame

 

[martinvickers]

I'm pretty sure ASO would not like anyone to get busted for this TdF. Can't have someone getting pinged in the 100th edition. Maybe just maybe that opens the door for some Spanish sauce.

Who is doing the testing for the Tour?

 

[martinvickers]

I might agree with Movistar.. The all look quite strong..

Wat i can't understand is this:

Why would a former top doper like RIIS (who told he was the best rider and the best doper) be so bad in doping his team?

There is two possibilities

1. They are not doping on the team
2. Riis does not sanction doping and the riders have to help theme selves wich makes the doping more inefficient.

I think there is a lot of logic that makes nr 2 unlikely..

Why would he let theme dope "alone" when they are bad at it and maybe with a bigger chance of getting caught?

Even if we accept they are all dying to dope again...

...Riis dodged the grand depart. He's under Danish investigation as we speak. Now is not the time for Riis to take risks, for the sake of one Tour. There's every chance Berti is also under 'surveillence'.

Tours, even' le 100e' come and go. Why put your entire future at risk at this point?

None of that is to say Riis could not be doping - of course he could. Only why there's a plausible route to why he wouldn't be.

 

[Spencer the Half Wit]

it's pretty cool that all this time it turns out that Walsh was just a jingoistic moron

Walsh, an Irishman, being jingoistic about a Kenyan born Brit, riding for a British/Italian team owned by an Australian born American?

You sure jingoistic is the right term?

 

[thehog]

that's gonna be one fluffy piece by walsh.
what about "Fluff science"?

The question will remain. If Sky are worried about pseudo scientists misinterpreting the data; then why not release the actual data and explain it?

Surely they would assist in ending the speculation?

 

[zastomito]

Walsh, an Irishman, being jingoistic about a Kenyan born Brit, riding for a British/Italian team owned by an Australian born American?

You sure jingoistic is the right term?

Agreed. How does 'money-grabbing ******' sounds?

 

[sniper]

The question will remain. If Sky are worried about pseudo scientists misinterpreting the data; then why not release the actual data and explain it?

Surely they would assist in ending the speculation?

so many words and promises, so few deeds. Kerrison back in january:

“Remarkable performance does not necessarily correlate with doping,” Kerrison says. “After Lance Armstrong’s interview, I can understand why people think they’ve been let down time and again. So our role is to open our doors to the world, to be as transparent and open as we can about the way we’re doing things.”

@davidwalshST is a key figure here. He should really be pushing for transparency, line up with Kimmage. Walsh in his position could really apply public pressure.
instead he's talking the talk.

 

[Berzin]

The question will remain. If Sky are worried about pseudo scientists misinterpreting the data; then why not release the actual data and explain it?

Surely they would assist in ending the speculation?

Absolutely. This is an attempt to say "we do things differently" (marginal gains and all that) without explaining exactly how the power meter numbers jibe with this oft-repeated mantra.

 

[darwin553]

The question will remain. If Sky are worried about pseudo scientists misinterpreting the data; then why not release the actual data and explain it?

Surely they would assist in ending the speculation?

And you really think the anti-sky crowd will believe their explanations considering the distrust they already hold towards the team?

The best thing for them to do is to give the data to a credible and reliable independent expert source (perhaps even more than just one) and let them report what they deem the results mean for any possible use of PEDs.

 

[mrhender]

Even if we accept they are all dying to dope again...

...Riis dodged the grand depart. He's under Danish investigation as we speak. Now is not the time for Riis to take risks, for the sake of one Tour. There's every chance Berti is also under 'surveillence'.

Tours, even' le 100e' come and go. Why put your entire future at risk at this point?

None of that is to say Riis could not be doping - of course he could. Only why there's a plausible route to why he wouldn't be.

I actually have come to the same conclusion..

Even though history has shown us that the "evething on the line/to much to loose" theory does not stick for sure.

But looking at the performances of his team its hard to compare with the riders earlier acheivements..

Having said that, the tour is young so anything can yet been seen....

 

[mikehammer67]

The best thing for them to do is to give the data to a credible and reliable independent expert source (perhaps even more than just one) and let them report what they deem the results mean for any possible use of PEDs.

true but it won't happen

brailsford will conveniently drop the idea