Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[LaFlorecita]

Froome did, but they are differente riders, You must compared to Andy, becouse they are more similars.

Froome has good performances, but not the results of Contador, that came from a very good school.

It is interesting to heard what his director said in GP of the nations, where he showed more strong than Mollema or Rui Costa, but he finished not very well in GC

I love how you just babble on and ignore everything else in my post.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Yeah, that post is written by a giant Froome fan.

Not only that, the story of Froome's Bilharzia diagnosis, treatment, etc, is fraught with conjecture and inconsistencies. Good grief. How you can look at what has been written there as a source of truth and transparency is beyond me.

 

[The Hitch]

Yeah, that post is written by a giant Froome fan.

A giant froome fan who didn't even bother looking up what the question marks around froomes story were in the first place, but just copy pasted Brailsfords comments

 

[Taxus4a]

Yeah, that post is written by a giant Froome fan.

The same way must we ignore you when write something about Contador?

Important thing is what the test said, so to me dont worth to write just what you write, other way I will ignore you.

The test could be ok or be full of mistakes or lies, but if he is Froome fan or not is not important.

 

[Taxus4a]

Your link does not support a position of disagreement to the assertion that blizharia can be cured with a one off treatment. If you feel it does, you will enhance the discussion significantly by posting the relevant text, rather than a single worded question and a URL.

It's also a 5++ year old study.

What I marked is: it is not a recurrent problem

And yes, it is, and of course can be cured in one day treatment. That doesnt change anything.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

What I marked is: it is not a recurrent problem

And yes, it is, and of course can be cured in one day treatment. That doesnt change anything.

No offence but if this is your method of arguing something, I'll have to ignore your posts, as they don't really make sense.

 

[Taxus4a]

No offence but if this is your method of arguing something, I'll have to ignore your posts, as they don't really make sense.

what is what dont make sense?

I marked one sentence, and I put a link when you can see hoy what a marked is not true.

I think is the right method.

If you are not agree with the link, say why.

 

[del1962]

That's the problem though, they only released to Grappe the figures from the 2011 Vuelta onwards, so none of the ones that would actually enable us to judge more accurately.

The problem is, bilharzia is something that Chris Froome is much more likely to be susceptible to than pretty much anybody else in the pro péloton, and it is something that feeds on blood cells and would explain disappointing performance, fatigue and lowered hematocrit levels. But it is also, because of its characteristics, almost the most perfect disease of all to explain away blood manipulation. You can chuck out the old tests for Froome, the baseline is rendered irrelevant because how can you consider tests taken when he has a parasite feeding on his blood cells to be an accurate representation of what a normal level blood reading is for him? (genuine question) Therefore bilharzia is more perfect than almost any other illness on earth to explain significant changes in blood values. Coupled with the convenient time of its appearances and disappearances, and you have a recipe for scepticism.

From what I understand after the statements from Sky about JTL, that any other Sky Rider has been asked to explain his BP, so it seems unlikely that Bilharzia has been used to explainaway blood manipilation

 

[del1962]

Don't you find it strange that the "transparent, open" Team Sky provide NO details on which specific version of blizharia Froome has?

Don't you find it strange that the "transparent, open" Team Sky provide NO information pre-2011 to compare the impact untreated blizharia has on an athlete's blood profile vs treated blizharia?

Don't you find it strange that of all the athletes coming out of Kenya - and there is a veritable sh!t-tonne of them, so little corroborating evidence is provided to support the notion that:
1. athletes get this thing
2. it's incurable and has to receive ongoing treatment
3. pre / post-treatment the athlete is an order of magnitude better

Some people die from the common cold as well, I think that's an emotive response and not really relevant to the discussion.

If you can list all the different kinds of blizharia, I would appreciate that. It would also be interesting to see the treatment for each type, if they are different. Things like penicillin are used to combat a host of different nasties, so I am doubting different strains of blizharia require significantly different remedies, but could be wrong. Typically the goal is to prevent reproduction.

I really don't see why people need to pry into other peoples illnesses, it is just tabloid journalism

 

[del1962]

What is this based on? Leinders is currently being investigated, unlike Ferrari for instance. Fuentes lost some heat as well. I can believe that Froome has had his program modified ad improved, which explains his insane performances, but to say that Leinders is the mastermind goes too far.

And how have other riders done their fine tuning of their program? A rider like Cunego immediately had his best year when doing the beta version, since he never repeated his 2004 results. Wasn't watching cycling back then, so I don't have the necessary background knowledge to judge such processes.

Totally agree, there is no way Leinders could be still working with any Sky rider

 

[LaFlorecita]

The same way must we ignore you when write something about Contador?

Important thing is what the test said, so to me dont worth to write just what you write, other way I will ignore you.

The test could be ok or be full of mistakes or lies, but if he is Froome fan or not is not important.

One word: bias.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I really don't see why people need to pry into other peoples illnesses, it is just tabloid journalism

Another one to ignore. Going to get quiet in here.

 

[del1962]

Another one to ignore. Going to get quiet in here.

Go ahead, no skin of my nose

 

[mattghg]

Just on the subject of whether or not Bilharzia can be cured:

- Drugs cure 60-98% of cases and reduce egg load in the rest. Dead eggs may be shed for months, but treatment arrests egg-laying, granuloma formation and future complications.
- Early disease usually improves with treatment. Patients with greater worm infestations are less likely to improve and are more likely to require repeated treatment.

(Source)

So it can be cured in the majority of cases, but not all, and in those cases where it can be cured this may or may not require 'repeated treatment'.

 

[The Hitch]

Just on the subject of whether or not Bilharzia can be cured:



(Source)

So it can be cured in the majority of cases, but not all, and in those cases where it can be cured this may or may not require 'repeated treatment'.

Addressed a million times. If froome wasn't cured how did he podium 2 gts and an Olympic time trial while still having it?

Ffs stop trolling and wasting pols time by pretending you are bringing in something new when you are offering long ago dismissed explanations.

 

[Taxus4a]

Another one to ignore. Going to get quiet in here.

I donde agree this time with del1962, becouse I consider relevant to finish speculation all in relation with his illness... although it is true that is not an obligation, and this happens only becouse the cycling past.

But anyway it is just one opinion, you dont have to ignore anybody for just an opinion.

 

[Taxus4a]

By the way:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-releases-froomes-power-data

 

[Netserk]

Totally agree, there is no way Leinders could be still working with any Sky rider

Totally agree, there is no way Ferrari could be still working with any Italian rider

 

[del1962]

Totally agree, there is no way Ferrari could be still working with any Italian rider

Fair point, though Scarponi etc did get caught out using him, still think it is highly unlikely that a Sky rider could get away with secretly seeing Leinders.

 

[Arrowfarm]

Fair point, though Scarponi etc did get caught out using him, still think it is highly unlikely that a Sky rider could get away with secretly seeing Leinders.

... Unless of course it happens with the blessings of sky management, as it did When he was Working for them.
Come on. It's not like it's the first time in history a doctor Works freelance with no "official" ties to a certain team.

 

[LaFlorecita]

By the way:

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/team-sky-releases-froomes-power-data

 

[mattghg]

Addressed a million times. If froome wasn't cured how did he podium 2 gts and an Olympic time trial while still having it?

Ffs stop trolling and wasting pols time by pretending you are bringing in something new when you are offering long ago dismissed explanations.

Explanation for what? What do you think I was trying to explain?

I was addressing the debate between Dear Wiggo and Taxus about

There's a few posts here, from (allegedly) medical people, providing links, etc, that show Blizharia can be cured, typically with one treatment, and it does not hang around post-treatment. Only reinfection brings it back.

The link I posted indicates that it just isn't that simple.

 

[Benotti69]

Explanation for what? What do you think I was trying to explain?

I was addressing the debate between Dear Wiggo and Taxus about



The link I posted indicates that it just isn't that simple.

So why is going back to the continent of Africa and risk further complications.

Bilharzia is a a shield.

 

[mattghg]

So why is going back to the continent of Africa and risk further complications.

I don't know what you mean...

 

[MartinGT]

I have just been reading this and laughing at it.

Why arent more questions been asked of Leinders time at Sky? Why are poeple not pressing Brailsfraud on this and not taking the normal BS of "We didnt know"

I am sick of reading lame @rse excuses from Sky and others saying they are shocked and then reading articles like the LA one where the peloton talk etc. In my office and every office I have worked it you hear gossip, its human nature when you work so close with people.

So why they are "shocked" when it comes out its BS.

People need to start pressing the teams especially Sky on these matters.