Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Parrulo]

I don't think "the peloton" is the people to ask. a 23 kid often has little understanding of that side of the sport.

The best source is always mechanics. They have seen it all and know it all.

Lot of questions, few real stories.

By peloton i actually meant the whole thing: Riders, Mechanics, DS's, managers etc

 

[Netserk]

That being said, I stand by my opinion that I have said here before, I believe they aren't running a doping programme throughout the team. I keep hearing that Leinders was the mastermind but he has been ditched and the success has still maintained with long peaks in 2013 with Froome and Porte. Who's doing it now so?

Brilliant logic!

Discovery must have been clean in 2005.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Brilliant logic!

Discovery must have been clean in 2005.

I think it must come back to that old saying I heard recently:

if you want to catch a bus, you must be able to think like a bus.

If I were a pro, and wanted to dope, there are more than enough published in (auto)biogaphy examples of how to go about finding a competent medically minded person to
1. get my dosages right to maximise performance
2. keep my blood parameters within prescribed limits

I guess some people lack imagination.

My first step would be to move to Monaco. Then I'd shut my mouth and just go training with the local crew.

 

[gooner]

Brilliant logic!

Discovery must have been clean in 2005.

Way to miss the point.

That doesn't rule out the notion that it could be someone other than Leinders. That's certainly a possibility. I just have doubts that he was the brains behind the operation. At the moment, I would like to know how the success has continued with Leinders not there. 2013 was even better in his absence.

It's a genuine query.

 

[Netserk]

That doesn't rule out the notion that it could be someone other than Ferrari. That's certainly a possibility. I just have doubts that he was the brains behind the operation. At the moment, I would like to know how the success has continued with Ferrari not there. 2005 was just as good in his absence.

It's a genuine query.

Same/same, right?

 

[ebandit]

...........taxi!

I think it must come back to that old saying I heard recently:

if you want to catch a bus, you must be able to think like a bus.


I guess some people lack imagination.

wanna catch a bus...........wait at the stop.............think like a bus you're
gonna get run over..............be mounted by a load of schoolies

team sky members really could be telling the truth ...........just imagine
......................HARD

Mark L

 

[Benotti69]

Way to miss the point.

That doesn't rule out the notion that it could be someone other than Leinders. That's certainly a possibility. I just have doubts that he was the brains behind the operation. At the moment, I would like to know how the success has continued with Leinders not there. 2013 was even better in his absence.

It's a genuine query.

Who says Sky are not still using Leinders? Just because he is not listed on their website doesn't mean he is not being used.

Leinder's also had 2 years to instruct others.

Ferrari was not seen on the USPS bus...........

 

[oldcrank]

Who says Sky are not still using Leinders?

Do you think Leinders has any time for SKY while he's training Thorpe?

 

[gooner]

Who says Sky are not still using Leinders? Just because he is not listed on their website doesn't mean he is not being used.

Link?

This is what I meant before by making things up to push a point. You're guessing and nothing else.

Leinder's also had 2 years to instruct others.

Ferrari was not seen on the USPS bus...........

I suppose Lance/USP should have ditched Ferrari after a year or two when he instructed them and they knew the game for themselves. Would have saved a lot of payments to him.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Brilliant logic!

Discovery must have been clean in 2005.

You had to do a big distortion of what gooner wrote to get the logic.
If you wish to play that game, it won't end well.

This also goes to the general discussion here - the rush to use the USPS system (& then get it wrong) as the default. That actually destroys your arguement. Because Gooner is correct. If Leiniders was the mastermind, as was often said here, then why no drop off since he left?
How are Sky running their program?

I don't believe Leinders was the mastermind, my thought; he was there to do the day to day stuff and keep the riders 'healthy' and that the top riders use someone else outside the team.

 

[The Hitch]

wanna catch a bus...........wait at the stop.............think like a bus you're
gonna get run over..............be mounted by a load of schoolies

Lol
10 characters.

 

[Netserk]

Hi Mas, how big a drop off was there between 2004 and 2005 on Disco?

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Hi Mas, how big a drop off was there between 2004 and 2005 on Disco?

I have no idea.
Whatever you think it is I am more than happy to go with.

Now, then use that criteria to come up with a plausible scenario on what Sky are.(If its relevant)

 

[Netserk]

I have no idea.
Whatever you think it is I am more than happy to go with.

Now, then use that criteria to come up with a plausible scenario on what Sky are.(If its relevant)

Why?

I have never claimed to know what they do.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Why?

I have never claimed to know what they do.

Ok, then why did you use Discovery as a reference point earlier in reply to Gooner? You introduced that.

 

[Netserk]

Ok, then why did you use Discovery as a reference point earlier in reply to Gooner? You introduced that.

Huh???

So I can only reference to Discovery if I can "come up with a plausible scenario on what Sky are"???

I disagree.

 

[the sceptic]

Link?

This is what I meant before by making things up to push a point. You're guessing and nothing else.



I suppose Lance/USP should have ditched Ferrari after a year or two when he instructed them and they knew the game for themselves. Would have saved a lot of payments to him.

You are guessing just as much as everyone else here.

No one knows what Leinders was doing there, or if he is still working as a consultant from a safe distance.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

Huh???

So I can only reference to Discovery if I can "come up with a plausible scenario on what Sky are"???

I disagree.

Actually, no you can reference it any way you wish. Any way you wish, entirely up to you.

But, since you either cannot show its relevance or refuse to then it seems it was a troll, or a completely redundant waste of time post. Thats my thoughts.
If it wasn't then by all means articulate what your original point was.

 

[gooner]

You are guessing just as much as everyone else here.

No one knows what Leinders was doing there, or if he is still working as a consultant from a safe distance.

I'm making a judgement on performances carrying on and even better in 2013. I don't claim my opinion to be gospel on this but it's something that needs addressing. Leinders has been removed and the dominance has remained. That's not guesswork, it's fact. I'm basing my opinion on what we know of performances when he was there and when he wasn't there afterwards, which is entirely different to making stuff up now about Leinders still working for them on the sly.

 

[Netserk]

Actually, no you can reference it any way you wish. Any way you wish, entirely up to you.

But, since you either cannot show its relevance or refuse to then it seems it was a troll, or a completely redundant waste of time post. Thats my thoughts.
If it wasn't then by all means articulate what your original point was.

I think it's obvious what my point was.

When he writes: " Leinders has been removed and the dominance has remained"

Then it's obvious what the point is when I point out that " Ferrari has been removed and the dominance has remained"

 

[SundayRider]

You had to do a big distortion of what gooner wrote to get the logic.
If you wish to play that game, it won't end well.

This also goes to the general discussion here - the rush to use the USPS system (& then get it wrong) as the default. That actually destroys your arguement. Because Gooner is correct. If Leiniders was the mastermind, as was often said here, then why no drop off since he left?
How are Sky running their program?

I don't believe Leinders was the mastermind, my thought; he was there to do the day to day stuff and keep the riders 'healthy' and that the top riders use someone else outside the team.

According to Landis you certainly don't need a genius doctor to give BBs.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I think it's obvious what my point was.

When he writes: " Leinders has been removed and the dominance has remained"

Then it's obvious what the point is when I point out that " Ferrari has been removed and the dominance has remained"

Ok, thanks - but that is where your point falls apart.
Unlike Leinders at Sky, Ferrari was never employed by USPS. He was the outside doping doc. And we know LA kept him through 2005, as well as back again for 2.0.

Leinders was on the payroll, or contract. Which was ended even before it became public.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

According to Landis you certainly don't need a genius doctor to give BBs.

And I agree - so why then the focus on Leinders?

I genuinely do not understand this type of argument - either people believe Leinders was hired for his expertise in doping.
Or you can do DIY just as effectively - which means the hiring of Leinders is immaterial.

 

[the sceptic]

I'm making a judgement on performances carrying on and even better in 2013. I don't claim my opinion to be gospel on this but it's something that needs addressing. Leinders has been removed and the dominance has remained. That's not guesswork, it's fact. I'm basing my opinion on what we know of performances when he was there and when he wasn't there afterwards, which is entirely different to making stuff up now about Leinders still working for them on the sly.

No one is going to dispute that. However, everyone is guessing when trying to figure out why this is the case. Benottis theory, while it might be a bit far fetched, is just one of many to explain this.

 

[the sceptic]

And I agree - so why then the focus on Leinders?

I genuinely do not understand this type of argument - either people believe Leinders was hired for his expertise in doping.
Or you can do DIY just as effectively - which means the hiring of Leinders is immaterial.

If it was that simple why hire him in the first place then? All this negative PR could have been avoided if they had hired someone from the outside with no dirt on them.

That of course goes for other teams as well. Theres got to be a reason for why these doctors keep getting employed.