Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[User Guide]

British track cycling seems to have had zero scrutiny. It would be interesting to look at who was hired and where from before and during the 'golden era'.

You really think the likes of Laura Trott,Chris Hoy and Joanna Rowsell are doping?

wow no really just wow

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

You really think the likes of Laura Trott,Chris Hoy and Joanna Rowsell are doping?

wow no really just wow

Yeah, people used to say to me 'You think Lance Armstrong is doping? wow, just wow.'

'You think Ben Johnson, Linford Christ and is doping? Wow, just wow'

'You think Rafa Nadal, Serena Williams and Andy Murray are doping? Wow, just wow'.

Can you explain to me why we should consider any cyclist to be clean given the track record of cycling and doping?

Or for that matter, why the performance or transparency of any sport, or coaching set up should not be held up for scrutiny?

 

[User Guide]

Yeah, people used to say to me 'You think Lance Armstrong is doping? wow, just wow.'

'You think Ben Johnson, Linford Christ and is doping? Wow, just wow'

'You think Rafa Nadal, Serena Williams and Andy Murray are doping? Wow, just wow'.

Can you explain to me why we should consider any cyclist to be clean given the track record of cycling and doping?

Or for that matter, why the performance or transparency of any sport, or coaching set up should not be held up for scrutiny?

Because theres zero, evidence hows that for starters.
I could name every single cyclist in a list and some will get popped.After all a stopped clock is right twice a day."See i was right all along""just a matter of time before rest,it'll come out in the wash one day" yadda yadda.
Every single one of the above you mentioned theres been something,missed tests whining about testing etc,there is not a single teenie tiny wiff of such, about the likes of trott or Hoy.
Thats the difference.
Just saying names/teams without any facts hurts the credibility of the clinic, it hides true facts and information under a mountain of innuendo and BS.


However Brailsfords "softening" of the zero tolerance policy is troubling, especially given his connection too GB.A connection I think should end given pro roads "salty" past/present.
As I posted in another thread,it really dosent matter if wigans/sky dopes or not.
If you arent part of the solution,if you are for the status quo then you ARE part of the problem.Especially as they and Brailsford personally, promised more.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Smacks to me of trying to control debate and discussion. If they are clean then they have nothing to hide and they will stand up to scrutiny and questioning.

There are a lot of athletes who had question marks against them before they got popped and plenty of athletes for whom when they were popped it was a bolt out of the blue.

Only a kool-aid drinker would never question the performance of anyone in professional (or amateur) sports.

 

[User Guide]

Smacks to me of trying to control debate and discussion. If they are clean then they have nothing to hide and they will stand up to scrutiny and questioning.

There are a lot of athletes who had question marks against them before they got popped and plenty of athletes for whom when they were popped it was a bolt out of the blue.

Only a kool-aid drinker would never question the performance of anyone in professional (or amateur) sports.

Dont know what a cool aid drinker is,but typical clinic dont agree on something get called names.Even though want the same end game IE clean cycling.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Only a kool-aid drinker would never question the performance of anyone in professional (or amateur) sports.

This is true, but in the case if the GB track ladies, who are on the whole, young and still closely connected to their families, how far should the questionning go?

As Laura Trott can't prove she's not doping, what can she do to satisfy the cynics?

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Dont know what a cool aid drinker is,but typical clinic dont agree on something get called names.Even though want the same end game IE clean cycling.

Kool Aid was what they drank at Jonestown. (google it) As for calling names, you were the one who came in with the shrill reaction to a fairly simple question about the history of British track cycling.

You say there is no evidence - well the reason why there is no evidence is because no one has bothered to ask any questions.

Do you know what the backroom staff of British track cycling were doing before they joined? Do you know how and why they were recruited?

This is true, but in the case if the GB track ladies, who are on the whole, young and still closely connected to their families, how far should the questionning go?

As Laura Trott can't prove she's not doping, what can she do to satisfy the cynics?

The same as Lemond, Bassons, Moncoutie etc, which is to say - to have a career which stands up to repeated scrutiny.

 

[User Guide]

Kool Aid was what they drank at Jonestown. (google it) As for calling names, you were the one who came in with the shrill reaction to a fairly simple question about the history of British track cycling.

You say there is no evidence - well the reason why there is no evidence is because no one has bothered to ask any questions.

Do you know what the backroom staff of British track cycling were doing before they joined? Do you know how and why they were recruited?

No I dont,just as I dont know what the coaches of USA or France or Malaysia were doing.
Noone is saying there shouldnt be accountability especially as publically funded one way or another but to just drag names in because they win or they are British or SPanish or.etc is just counterproductive for the reasons I have already stated.
This is the last I have to say well done you win the interweb.Bravo

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

They should be accountable but there should be no questioning? That doesn't make any sense.

 

[the big ring]

Every single one of the above you mentioned theres been something,missed tests whining about testing etc,there is not a single teenie tiny wiff of such about the likes of trott or Hoy

However Brailsfords "softening" of the zero tolerance policy is troubling, especially given his connection too GB.A connection I think should end given pro roads "salty" past/present.

Hoy is racing world class track at 36.

This was a bit salty, and it was totally track related: http://forum.cyclingnews.com/showthread.php?t=18541

It's hard, I get that. But you have to open your eyes.

 

[Yiasemi]

Tom Wolfe, Electric Kool Aid Acid Test, literary journalism on Ken Kesey and his Merry pranksters, the LSD pioneers. Probably I shouldn't know that on this forum, but there you go.
The Jamestown attribution was Flavor Aid, presumably acid and good old neighbourly Mary Jane scrambled a lot of minds, hence the confusion.

Carry on bickering.

 

[RichWalk]

Tom Wolfe, Electric Kool Aid Acid Test, literary journalism on Ken Kesey and his Merry pranksters, the LSD pioneers. Probably I shouldn't know that on this forum, but there you go.
The Jamestown attribution was Flavor Aid, presumably acid and good old neighbourly Mary Jane scrambled a lot of minds, hence the confusion.

Carry on bickering.

been a while since I read that, but didnt they spike the Kool Aid in Watts? Jonestown was a cult masacre where they mixed cyanide with Kool Aid et al

 

[User Guide]

There is no evidence because ther is no questioning?
Has anyone questioned wether the bloke across the road is a drug dealer,he drives a beamer .No ive no evidence because I havent looked.
See what I did there?

Im imposing a self ban from the clinic as I believe many posters here just want to win the internet for some reason, that or they are really employed by the likes of armstrong to turn everything into a p******g contest and bury any real info I might be interested or surprised to know under a mountain of BS.
Bye

 

[AcademyCC]

User Guide - this is a tough one. I had to rip my head out of the sand not so long ago regarding SKY.

If their clean answer the questions. Simple. Given the history of the sport and whats happening now its not unreasonable to be asking a lot of questions.

Unfortunately in the UK we are still being spoon fed the hero worship from the press. 'Sir Chris Hoy - knight of the relm' 'lovely little Laura Trott and her new fella' 'Arise Sir Bradly' 'The Genius of Brailsfords marginal gains'

You need to take a step back from the adulation being heaped on British cycling and accept some of the flaws in there case.

I wouldnt take the insults to heart. Some people are just frustrated that its USPS happening all over again in a different guise.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

The same as Lemond, Bassons, Moncoutie etc, which is to say - to have a career which stands up to repeated scrutiny.

That makes sense, but I suspect the cynics won't have the patience to wait until Laura T (and Dani King, Jo Rowsell, Becky James and Jess Varnish) actually have a career to scrutinise, rather than a couple of seasons.

Do you think the aforementioned ladies are clean? I do, but I'm feeling optimistic about life today.

 

[veganrob]

There is no evidence because ther is no questioning?
Has anyone questioned wether the bloke across the road is a drug dealer,he drives a beamer .No ive no evidence because I havent looked.
See what I did there?

Im imposing a self ban from the clinic as I believe many posters here just want to win the internet for some reason, that or they are really employed by the likes of armstrong to turn everything into a p******g contest and bury any real info I might be interested or surprised to know under a mountain of BS.
Bye

If the Beamer driver has some unsavory characters visiting at odd/all hours of the day and night would a red flag be raised?
Doesn't have to be guilt by association but it is certainly legit to ask some questions

 

[sittingbison]

Sorry but it's a load of bull to suggest that Team GB has not been put under scrutiny. There's a whole thread called Olympics full of questions about Brits on the track.

Mrs Murphy I don't know where you have been, but you certainly didn't post throughout the tour and Olympics. Perhaps you could do a bit of reading. And stop being obtuse in saying every single rider needs scrutiny and defense of such is shrill or stifling debate. That's an insult to intelligence.

You are going off half cocked, get a grip before spraying rubbish commentary. It makes you look like an idiot, demeans you and dilutes your worthwhile commentary.

 

[bobbins]

Hate to say it but I think that the kicking that the team got in its first season lead to more pressure on results and the inevitable.

I think that the track team are different though. More of a gradual build up, the same coaches, no specialist doctors being recruited. As they have always said before, track results are easier to quantify in performance tests.

I think that with the dropping of their zero tolerance to doping and recruitment of riders that they knew to be dirty that the pro team went to the dark side and is getting the expected results.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

Sorry but it's a load of bull to suggest that Team GB has not been put under scrutiny. There's a whole thread called Olympics full of questions about Brits on the track.

Does that cover the early years? Have the questions about the recruitment of the backroom staff been answered? If they do then do please elaborate?

Mrs Murphy I don't know where you have been, but you certainly didn't post throughout the tour and Olympics. Perhaps you could do a bit of reading. And stop being obtuse in saying every single rider needs scrutiny and defense of such is shrill or stifling debate. That's an insult to intelligence.

Why should every rider/coach/DS/journalist not be subject to scrutiny?

You are going off half cocked, get a grip before spraying rubbish commentary. It makes you look like an idiot, demeans you and dilutes your worthwhile commentary.

Translates as - please only question the riders I approve of being questioned.

That makes sense, but I suspect the cynics won't have the patience to wait until Laura T (and Dani King, Jo Rowsell, Becky James and Jess Varnish) actually have a career to scrutinise, rather than a couple of seasons.

Do you think the aforementioned ladies are clean? I do, but I'm feeling optimistic about life today.

I don't think anyone is clean.

 

[the big ring]

User Guide - this is a tough one. I had to rip my head out of the sand not so long ago regarding SKY.

If their clean answer the questions. Simple. Given the history of the sport and whats happening now its not unreasonable to be asking a lot of questions.

As did I re: Cadel. Talk about grieving.

With the utter crapstorm going on around the UCI / USADA / Lance and all that stuff now, I see the lovey dovey Cadel / Chiara tweets and I am bitterly disappointed.

 

[sittingbison]

They all ARE subject to scrutiny. We have all spent the past three months putting every last aspect of TeamSKY and Team GB to the blowtorch. There is a sky thread, cadence, love, Froome, Olympics, track. God knows what else. Oh, Leinders. Take your pick. It's been done, and we are still arguing.

Wouldn't dream of censoring you Mrs Murphy, but I disagree with your scattergun approach. When you are specific you are so much more effective. Choose your target, have some info.

 

[Ferminal]

Any conclusion of Wiggins doping has to in a large part be a result of doping in cycling that was/is going on.

His 2009 transformation is not unbelievable if you consider it in the context of a clean top10.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

I don't think anyone is clean.

That will certainly save you from disappointment when the inevitable happens.

 

[sittingbison]

As did I re: Cadel. Talk about grieving.

With the utter crapstorm going on around the UCI / USADA / Lance and all that stuff now, I see the lovey dovey Cadel / Chiara tweets and I am bitterly disappointed.

I am intrigued as well, but you know what? Perhaps Cadel is more interested in developing his family than the complete and utter train wreck across the mountain in Aigle. He is after all 35yo and at the very end of his career.

Maybe he's actually done with it all.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

That will certainly save you from disappointment when the inevitable happens.

It works for me.

They all ARE subject to scrutiny. We have all spent the past three months putting every last aspect of TeamSKY and Team GB to the blowtorch. There is a sky thread, cadence, love, Froome, Olympics, track. God knows what else. Oh, Leinders. Take your pick. It's been done, and we are still arguing.

Wouldn't dream of censoring you Mrs Murphy, but I disagree with your scattergun approach. When you are specific you are so much more effective. Choose your target, have some info.

Was the question of recruitment of coaching stuff in the early years answered? Has that been subject to scrutiny?

It's funny but your definition of scattergun seems to be - questioning Aussies heroes and asking about the Brailsford's pre-Sky recruitment - this second question comes within a context - the juxtaposition of Brailsford's anti-doper stance when Sky started with now. It is reasonable to ask - was he always against recruiting dirty backroom staff and does the change in hiring policy represent a sea-change or is he going back to his old ways. It is logical to ask - who did he recruit in the early days and where did they come from? I don't know - did British cycling do as British rowing did and cash their Daily Mail ferry vouchers and go on a day trip to the former GDR and stock up on backroom staff?

If there is no story then it is easy to answer the questions - coach X came from Y, coach a came from c and so on and so forth.