Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

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Libertine Seguros

Libertine Seguros

Feb 20, 2010
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Dear Wiggo said:
I think you missed a post I made in another thread. Lemme go find it...



Now, with hindsight, this seems obvious, right? Noone says, "tactics", focusing on the WCs, or any other excuse. Just: he was autobus, then he was winning.

I know I sound like a broken record, but how in the hell is that any different to Wiggins 2012 and Wiggins clean (pre 2009)?

2012: Final GC:


2008 Giro 39.4km TT:


Nibali is 8' down, Wiggins is down 1:16. It is a TT the day after a rest day.

How? He was WC and Olympic gold medallist at IP that year. So he is in peak condition.
Click to expand...
Wiggins was in peak condition for riding at peak power for 4km. Not 40.

Wiggins' ITT has improved immeasurably since then, and I think Team Sky are shady as all hell, but a point like this doesn't help your case.

Better to point out that Wiggins was a TTer of around the levels of David Millar or modern-day Dave Zabriskie before; a guy who would drop time and wait for the ITT, and put in a top 10 showing, and maybe win if the course suited him, the big names underperformed, or it didn't start raining at an awkward time like when he lost the '09 Giro TT to Ignatas Konovalovas. That's no shame, it puts him as pretty much the best TTer of the GC guys; but he was competing at the same level as guys like Evans and Contador, who were also fighting for GC day in day out.

This year, however, he was unstoppable. Didn't lose a TT over 9km in length. Finished 2nd in every TT under that length except one (Romandie). Smashed the field in all of them. But the improvement in the TT wasn't so obvious until the Tour, because we focused on his improvement in climbing or his discovery of long-forgotten skills like when he won the bunch sprint in Romandie barely getting out of the saddle. We reconciled ourselves with knowing that he'd always been a top time triallist, and it was only under closer scrutiny you realised that actually his time trial had improved massively too.

I made the comparison to biathlete Kaisa Mäkäräinen. She'd always been a there-or-thereabouts talent, known for fast skiing and erratic shooting, until the 2010-11 season. Then, she was shooting accurately and skiing away from the field. And I thought, hey, she's always been fast, she's just improved her shooting. But then, when the statistics were looked at, it showed that her ski times were way up as well. But there's more to just "clean/dirty" about the comparison though. Confidence levels are one thing, but you race harder when it's for the win than when it's for 15th place.
 
thehog

thehog

BANNED
Jul 27, 2009
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Love it!

Do you have one of those for Froome?

I also laugh at those in regards to Wiggins improvement trajectory suggesting its normal. Throw Froome, Rogers and Porte into that graph and rename it Sky and you correlate the obvious inner team doping program. It defies belief. Froome especially.

QUOTE=Dear Wiggo;1052841]No. No donkey-to-racehorse here. Move along.

donkeytoracehorse.png
[/QUOTE]
 
B

bianchigirl

Mar 18, 2009
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Wiggins was bugged up for a long time as a prologue specialist & couldn't win one for **** - then 1000 days on he's smashing it...
 
Dear Wiggo

Dear Wiggo

Sep 29, 2012
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Libertine Seguros said:
Wiggins was in peak condition for riding at peak power for 4km. Not 40.
Click to expand...

I would disagree, based on my own training, acoggan IP training slides, the concept of periodisation, and Joe Friel's book.

March is world champs. Brad's Hct is under 50 coz unlike Rob Hayles, from the same British pursuit team, he doesn't have to take a 2 week holiday. Brad's VO2max is maxed out.

April-May for endurance training, starting the training cycle again.

May-June building FTP (at the Giro). 39.4km TT would be a great FTP test. Brad is cruising it - autobusing the climbs and over an hour down. He's just had a rest day.

July-August - fine tuning 4km pursuit power, working on VO2max efforts and technical aspects.

August - Olympics.


ETA: Another example, from when Brad was 18 and Cancellara beats him at Worlds TT. People say "oh but Brad was not concentrating on the TT". In my experience and research, it's the primary thing you concentrate on when training for IP.

August 2nd, 1998: 25 mile (40km) junior British champion in 53:53 (44.5km/hr)
September 11-21: silver in the team pursuit @ Commonwealth Games
October 7th: Cancellara puts 1:46 into Wiggins over 23km (29:39 vs 31:25 = 43.9km/hr)
 
W

William H

May 25, 2009
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bianchigirl said:
I love that tt quote of wiggins - it's almost exactly what Armstrong said after indurain had blown past him in that tt. If you haven't read the neophytes tale in walsh's inside the tour de France you really should.

Dear wiggo you'll also enjoy brailsfords own graph of rider performance - notice where wiggins! Rogers & Froome are http://www.cyclesportmag.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/DBgraphhires.jpg
Click to expand...

*this graph is out approximation of Brailsford's analysis.

Or to put it another way, this is not Brailsford's graph.
 
blackcat

blackcat

Mar 13, 2009
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it is distorted to think Wiggo was ever clean before this current period he begand the GC title from the 09 giro with Sky. He woulda always been on it. Just a different focus
 
Dear Wiggo

Dear Wiggo

Sep 29, 2012
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blackcat said:
it is distorted to think Wiggo was ever clean before this current period he begand the GC title from the 09 giro with Sky. He woulda always been on it. Just a different focus
Click to expand...

I had been wondering that. There is a stunning example of home ground advantage, where someone gains 20 seconds in their IP time from March to August.

As I saw this I could hear the phone call, "We need you to come to Aigle. Your blood values are showing some anomalies".

That's one way of removing the competition...
 
oldcrank

oldcrank

Jul 24, 2009
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Dear Wiggo said:
August 2nd, 1998: 25 mile (40km) junior British champion in 53:53 (44.5km/hr)
September 11-21: silver in the team pursuit @ Commonwealth Games
October 7th: Cancellara puts 1:46 into Wiggins over 23km (29:39 vs 31:25 = 43.9km/hr)
Click to expand...
Looks like proof that FabCon was doping years and years before
riding for Riis or Bruyneel.
 
Dear Wiggo

Dear Wiggo

Sep 29, 2012
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Data is so much clearer when you sort it a little bit... Ian Stannard - good effort for a 24/25 year old. 80-83kg @ 1.89 he reminds me of Brad at 24.

Sky, 2011:
2011km.png


Sky, 2012:
2012km.png
 
Dear Wiggo

Dear Wiggo

Sep 29, 2012
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Not even sure what the London Nocturne is. Curious pattern echo happening though...

In 2012, Stannard won the London Nocturne by lapping the field.
Click to expand...

Leipheimer, for example tested positive for ephedrine at the 1996 Elite criterium championships, which he won after lapping the field
Click to expand...
 
Dear Wiggo

Dear Wiggo

Sep 29, 2012
12,197
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http://www.londonnocturne.com/elitecriterium.php

Ok that's a little more correct...
Ian Stannard from Team Sky put on a dominant display to win both the Saint-Gobain Elite Criterium and the Elimination Race. Stannard broke clear in the criterium with Kristian House, Niklas Gustavsson and team mate Davide Appollonio. This quartet lapped the field with Stannard proving too strong for House to pull away on the final lap.
Click to expand...

Was going to be dismayed if he'd lapped House and team solo...
 
Ryo Hazuki

Ryo Hazuki

Mar 31, 2010
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Dear Wiggo said:
I think you missed a post I made in another thread. Lemme go find it...



Now, with hindsight, this seems obvious, right? Noone says, "tactics", focusing on the WCs, or any other excuse. Just: he was autobus, then he was winning.

I know I sound like a broken record, but how in the hell is that any different to Wiggins 2012 and Wiggins clean (pre 2009)?

2012: Final GC:


2008 Giro 39.4km TT:


Nibali is 8' down, Wiggins is down 1:16. It is a TT the day after a rest day.

How? He was WC and Olympic gold medallist at IP that year. So he is in peak condition.
Click to expand...


lol these are your arguments? WHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAH

obviously wiggins didn't go full in that itt unlike nibali.

1. [AUS] EVANS Cadel PRL 1h07'48" 80
2. [GER] KLÖDEN Andreas AST 25" 50
3. [KAZ] KASHECHKIN Andrey AST 30" 35
4. [GBR] WIGGINS Bradley COF 01'00" 25
5. [UKR] POPOVYCH Yaroslav DSC 01'02" 15
6. [ESP] CONTADOR VELASCO Alberto DSC 01'04" 10
7. [FRA] CHAVANEL Sylvain COF 01'24" 5
8. [USA] LEIPHEIMER Levi DSC 01'25" 3
9. [ESP] ASTARLOZA CHAURREAU Mikel EUS 01'28" 2
10. [DEN] RASMUSSEN Michael RAB 01'31"

this was his tour 2007 itt, in the rain for that matter! (wiggins sucks at steering)

still you are either a troll or an idiot and quite possibly both. I won't respond to your posts anymore as quite clealry you are full of it
 
Dear Wiggo

Dear Wiggo

Sep 29, 2012
12,197
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Seems more appropriate here. USPS were doped to the gills in 2003, no question.

Ryo Hazuki said:
what are you talking about? sky faded hard in the end of this season. froome is an excellent example. how do you compare this to us epostal and how they after an incredible tour would still thrash the vuelta? :rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Yeah all those 1 times they thrashed the Vuelta, while juiced to the gills. In 2003.

2003 USPS victories:
28/09/2003 [ESP] HERAS HERNANDEZ Roberto GT [Esp] Vuelta a España
27/09/2003 [ESP] HERAS HERNANDEZ Roberto GTs [Esp] Vuelta a España, Stage 20 : San Lorenzo de El Escorial - Alto de Abantos I.T.T.
23/08/2003 [RUS] EKIMOV Viatcheslav 2.1 [Ned] Ronde van Nederland
21/08/2003 [RUS] EKIMOV Viatcheslav 2.1s [Ned] Ronde van Nederland, Stage 4 : Nordhorn - Denekamp I.T.T.
15/08/2003 [NED] VAN HEESWIJK Max 2.3s [Fra] Tour de l'Ain, Stage 4 : Bellegarde-sur-Valserine - Culoz
27/07/2003 [USA] ARMSTRONG Lance GT [Fra] Tour de France
21/07/2003 [USA] ARMSTRONG Lance GTs [Fra] Tour de France, Stage 15 : Bagnères-de-Bigorre - Luz-Ardiden
9/07/2003 [Usa] US Postal Service presented by Berry Floor GTs [Fra] Tour de France, Stage 4 : Joinville - Saint-Dizier T.T.T.
29/06/2003 [LUX] JOACHIM Benoît NC4 [Lux] National Championships Luxembourg R.R.
26/06/2003 [NOR] KJAERGAARD Steffen NCT3 [Nor] National Championships Norway (Sandnes) I.T.T.
15/06/2003 [USA] ARMSTRONG Lance 2.HC [Fra] Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré
11/06/2003 [USA] ARMSTRONG Lance 2.HCs [Fra] Critérium du Dauphiné Libéré, Stage 3 : Saint-Paul-en-Jarez - Saint-Héand I.T.T.
8/03/2003 [COL] PEÑA GRISALES Victor Hugo 2.3s [Esp] Vuelta a Murcia - Costa Calida, Stage 4 : Cartagena - Alto de La Santa
Click to expand...

2012 Team Sky victories:

27/09/2012 [COL] URAN URAN Rigoberto 1.HC [Ita] Gran Piemonte
16/09/2012 [GBR] CAVENDISH Mark 2.1s [Gbr] Tour of Britain, Stage 8 : Reigate - Guildford
12/09/2012 [GBR] CAVENDISH Mark 2.1s [Gbr] Tour of Britain, Stage 4 : Carlisle - Blackpool
11/09/2012 [GBR] CAVENDISH Mark 2.1s [Gbr] Tour of Britain, Stage 3 : Jedburgh - Dumfries
9/09/2012 [NOR] NORDHAUG Lars Petter 1.WT2 [Can] GP de Montréal
9/09/2012 [GBR] ROWE Luke 2.1s [Gbr] Tour of Britain, Stage 1 : Ipswich - Norfolk
2/09/2012 [GBR] DOWSETT Alex NCT2 [Gbr] National Championships Great Britain (Hose) I.T.T.
26/08/2012 [GBR] CAVENDISH Mark 2.HCs [Den] Post Danmark Rundt - Tour of Denmark, Stage 6 : Slagelse - Frederiksberg
26/08/2012 [NOR] BOASSON HAGEN Edvald 1.WT2 [Fra] GP Ouest France - Plouay
24/08/2012 [NOR] NORDHAUG Lars Petter 2.HCs [Den] Post Danmark Rundt - Tour of Denmark, Stage 3 : Silkeborg - Vejle
1/08/2012 [GBR] WIGGINS Bradley WCTT [Gbr] Olympic Games (London) - I.T.T.
22/07/2012 [GBR] WIGGINS Bradley GT1 [Fra] Tour de France
22/07/2012 [GBR] CAVENDISH Mark GT1s [Fra] Tour de France, Stage 20 : Rambouillet - Paris
21/07/2012 [GBR] WIGGINS Bradley GT1s [Fra] Tour de France, Stage 19 : Bonneval - Chartres I.T.T.
20/07/2012 [GBR] CAVENDISH Mark GT1s [Fra] Tour de France, Stage 18 : Blagnac - Brive-la-Gaillarde
14/07/2012 [GBR] SWIFT Ben 2.WTs [Pol] Tour de Pologne, Stage 5 : Rabka Zdroj - Zakopane
11/07/2012 [GBR] SWIFT Ben 2.WTs [Pol] Tour de Pologne, Stage 2 : Walbrzych - Opole
9/07/2012 [GBR] WIGGINS Bradley GT1s [Fra] Tour de France, Stage 9 : Arc-et-Senans - Besançon I.T.T.
7/07/2012 [GBR] FROOME Chris GT1s [Fra] Tour de France, Stage 7 : Tomblaine - La Planche des Belles Filles
2/07/2012 [GBR] CAVENDISH Mark GT1s [Fra] Tour de France, Stage 2 : Visé (Bel) - Tournai (Bel)
24/06/2012 [NOR] BOASSON HAGEN Edvald NC3 [Nor] National Championships Norway (Asane) R.R.
24/06/2012 [GBR] STANNARD Ian NC2 [Gbr] National Championships Great Britain (Ampleforth) R.R.
17/06/2012 [GBR] CAVENDISH Mark 2.1 [Ned] Ster ZLM Tour
10/06/2012 [GBR] WIGGINS Bradley 2.WT [Fra] Critérium du Dauphiné
7/06/2012 [GBR] WIGGINS Bradley 2.WTs [Fra] Critérium du Dauphiné, Stage 4 : Villié-Morgon - Bourg-en-Bresse I.T.T.
6/06/2012 [NOR] BOASSON HAGEN Edvald 2.WTs [Fra] Critérium du Dauphiné, Stage 3 : Givors - La Clayette
27/05/2012 [AUS] ROGERS Michael 2.HC [Ger] Bayern-Rundfahrt
26/05/2012 [AUS] ROGERS Michael 2.HCs [Ger] Bayern-Rundfahrt, Stage 4 : Feuchtwangen - Feuchtwangen I.T.T.
24/05/2012 [AUS] ROGERS Michael 2.HCs [Ger] Bayern-Rundfahrt, Stage 2 : Penzberg - Kempten
20/05/2012 [NOR] BOASSON HAGEN Edvald 2.1 [Nor] Tour of Norway
19/05/2012 [NOR] BOASSON HAGEN Edvald 2.1s [Nor] Tour of Norway, Stage 4 : Hamar - Lillehammer
18/05/2012 [GBR] CAVENDISH Mark GT2s [Ita] Giro d'Italia, Stage 13 : Savona - Cervere
10/05/2012 [GBR] CAVENDISH Mark GT2s [Ita] Giro d'Italia, Stage 5 : Modena - Fano
6/05/2012 [GBR] CAVENDISH Mark GT2s [Ita] Giro d'Italia, Stage 2 : Herning - Herning
29/04/2012 [GBR] WIGGINS Bradley 2.WT [Sui] Tour de Romandie
29/04/2012 [GBR] WIGGINS Bradley 2.WTs [Sui] Tour de Romandie, Stage 5 : Crans-Montana - Crans-Montana I.T.T.
25/04/2012 [GBR] WIGGINS Bradley 2.WTs [Sui] Tour de Romandie, Stage 1 : Morges - La Chaux-de-Fonds
24/04/2012 [GBR] THOMAS Geraint 2.WTs [Sui] Tour de Romandie, Prologue : Lausanne I.T.T.
22/03/2012 [COL] URAN URAN Rigoberto 2.WTs [Esp] Volta a Catalunya, Stage 4 : Tremp - Asco
11/03/2012 [GBR] WIGGINS Bradley 2.WT [Fra] Paris - Nice
11/03/2012 [GBR] WIGGINS Bradley 2.WTs [Fra] Paris - Nice, Stage 8 : Nice - Col d'Eze I.T.T.
9/03/2012 [NOR] BOASSON HAGEN Edvald 2.WTs [Ita] Tirreno - Adriatico, Stage 3 : Indicatore - Terni
8/03/2012 [GBR] CAVENDISH Mark 2.WTs [Ita] Tirreno - Adriatico, Stage 2 : San Vincenzo - Indicatore
26/02/2012 [GBR] CAVENDISH Mark 1.1 [Bel] Kuurne - Brussel - Kuurne
19/02/2012 [AUS] PORTE Richie 2.1 [Por] Volta ao Algarve
19/02/2012 [GBR] WIGGINS Bradley 2.1s [Por] Volta ao Algarve, Stage 5 : Lagoa - Portimao I.T.T.
17/02/2012 [AUS] PORTE Richie 2.1s [Por] Volta ao Algarve, Stage 3 : Castro Marim - Loule/Alto do Malhao
16/02/2012 [NOR] BOASSON HAGEN Edvald 2.1s [Por] Volta ao Algarve, Stage 2 : Faro - Lagoa
9/02/2012 [GBR] CAVENDISH Mark 2.HCs [Qat] Tour of Qatar, Stage 5 : Camel Race Track - Al Khor Corniche
7/02/2012 [GBR] CAVENDISH Mark 2.HCs [Qat] Tour of Qatar, Stage 3 : Dukhan - Al Gharafa Stadium
7/02/2012 [NOR] NORDHAUG Lars Petter 1.1 [Esp] Trofeo Deia
Click to expand...
 
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