Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Dear Wiggo]

Your wish is my command, Wiggo.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ol...ent-to-outlawing-of-BOA-drug-cheat-bylaw.html


Took me about 2 minutes to find. You know, sometimes you're the one full of s*** round here, Wiggo...just sayin'....

Coz you're clearly struggling with this, I'll remind you what we are debating:

Dave Millar is always referred to here as the "ex drugs cheat" etc etc. The Brit press never go easy on him at all.

The article you have linked does not mention David Millar once.

Please remind me, who is full of what?

I can find, really quickly, 5-6 articles from different online British newspapers repeating verbatim David's claim that Team Sky prove you can win the Tour clean, because Wiggins (surprise 4th place in 2009) just did so.

That's called a soap box.

And they (you know, the ones who are never easy on him) are letting David say what he wants, unchecked, unverified, unquestioningly, simply because he is British, and saying it. They are not only going easy on him, they are doing his PR for him, for free.

 

[ebandit]

clever

Yeah I highlighted too much - ebandit and Jimmy are saying it's a myth that Brits say "we're british, we're better than everyone else, therefore we don't dope" - but that is exactly what Brad is saying. And Jimmy, only he just can't see it.

Forgetting Millar, Simpson, et al.

how frightfully clever of you.............except your referring to one person
........brad not all british athletes........and that's his personal reaction
stating that if he doped he fears being vilified

british athletes have doped just like those of any nation

no-one says were british we're better than everyone else . there-fore we don't dope............you have totally made that up!

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Whether or not that's the case, it was used by Wiggins to highlight cultural differences wrt doping that most likely exist. (If you believe cultures exist)

Obviously, if he's wrong on that point (and you suggest he is) then he's used a **** poor example.

Not only is it a **** poor example, but it was breathtakingly arrogant to suggest it.

They don't let pariahs commentate on TV.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

how frightfully clever of you.............except your referring to one person
........brad not all british athletes........and that's his personal reaction
stating that if he doped he fears being vilified

british athletes have doped just like those of any nation

no-one says were british we're better than everyone else . there-fore we don't dope............you have totally made that up!

Noone? Is Brad noone? And if he isn't expressing the generalised opinion of UK residents, why is noone disagreeing with his statement? Noone is disagreeing with him. Noone.

And what exactly is he saying - I have the quote from him there for you.

Please. Enlighten me. And qualify what you think he is saying by first reminding me if you are ESL or not, because as a native English speaker, to me, that is exactly what Brad is saying.

How else would you interpret it?

 

[ebandit]

interpretation

Noone? Is Brad noone? And if he isn't expressing the generalised opinion of UK residents, why is noone disagreeing with his statement? Noone is disagreeing with him. Noone.

And what exactly is he saying - I have the quote from him there for you.

Please. Enlighten me. And qualify what you think he is saying by first reminding me if you are ESL or not, because as a native English speaker, to me, that is exactly what Brad is saying.

How else would you interpret it?

words twisted to fit your own agenda

i won't and can't answer for brad

but the truth is that no-one says that they don't dope because they are british...............it clearly is irrelavant because brit's do dope

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

words twisted to fit your own agenda

i won't and can't answer for brad

but the truth is that no-one says that they don't dope because they are british...............it clearly is irrelavant because brit's do dope

Nonsense, the only Brits to have doped have been forced into it by evil Johnny Foreigner.

 

[ferryman]

No, it's not "he's a Brit, Brtis don't dope", it's "He's from a different culture so you cannot compare him to Lance Armstrong, who is a doper, and say they are similar, therefore he dopes". Uh. Remind me what the difference is again?

Your arrogance and obvious racism is telling.

The fact that you cannot see past your own myopic understanding of what you are actually saying, reinforced by the racism, of "we are better than you" is telling.

His culture jibe was directed at Australia. Of course he means white man (English in his view) culture which is just ridiculous. No need to point out the facts that were was an established culture xXX,000 years or so before.

My advice to you is not to get dragged down into this and leave the easy argument obvious against these Anglophile posters. They are not rational people to debate with because of their inbred superiority complex.

 

[Don Quixote]

I read an interesting post about a particular Spanish tendency in "playing for the crowd", which is also evident in the bullring and on the football field. This makes perfect sense to me.

As a young English rider I also rode with great panache, except I played for God.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

My advice to you is not to get dragged down into this and leave the easy argument obvious against these Anglophile posters. They are not rational people to debate with because of their inbred superiority complex.

And good advice it is. Have been employing the ignore function for a couple more posters. I will stop sounding so aggro soon

 

[Dear Wiggo]

I read an interesting post about a particular Spanish tendency in "playing for the crowd", which is also evident in the bullring and on the football field. This makes perfect sense to me.

That's an interesting angle - and it makes sense / is believable.

I am particularly interested in the human aspect of doping and pro cycling - the psychology of it, and being able to empathise as an important first step in coming up with "solutions".

I realise it is OT here, but do you think the motivation to dope carries an underlying theme applicable regardless of race or culture?

As a young English rider I also rode with great panache, except I played for God.

 

[Froome19]

Froome with the pressure of doping innuendo will start to dial it back and drop away.
Porte will either test positive or non-confess confess by eluding to certain "things" in the press.
Sky's classic campaign will be woeful.

These last 3 are incredibly unlikely, but I am not sure you realised how much attention your post will get when you originally posted it..

I can also predict how sky fanboys will respond.

If sky has a bad year it will be proof they are clean because the long and successful (and clean) 2012 burned them out.

If sky has a similar year it will be proof they are clean, since they have proved that they can maintain their marginal gains and superior talent over a clean peloton.

If sky has a better year it will be proof they are clean, since their superior talent and marginal gains makes it possible to win even more now because the rest of the peloton is scared after the Lance saga. (and of course out of form and/or lazy)

Sky "fanboys" never in general use these types of proofs.

compare Sir Chris Hoy's skull, his head size, and his quads. Lots of exogenous hormones. The press will give their home athletes wide berth.

Christine Ohuruogu is the scapegoat for the equivalent of Armstrong.


so instead of nabbing Paula Radcliff, Cav, Hoy, or Wiggo, we'll nab Ohuruogu to demonstrate we are tuff on doperz

Is this just a bunch of guesses, based on what exactly?

He also got to go to the Olympics as part of the team, and had glowing praise in the media from Cavendish.

Millar was only allowed to ride in the Olympics due to the fact that the BOA were forced to allow dopers to participate. Wiggins himself publicly announced that he did not want Millar in the team. In the end it was not in the BOA's hands.

Froome has the potential to blow this whole thing up. He is Michael Rasmussen 2.0. He's worse than Rasmussen because even with bags for of plasma Chicken was still a fairly poor ITT'er.

Froome just takes it to a new level of stupidity.

Where do you get all this stuff about Froome from?
I genuinely do not understand why you go on about him so much in comparison to other riders..

 

[ebandit]

seriously?

Nonsense, the only Brits to have doped have been forced into it by evil Johnny Foreigner.

the greatest nonsense is this post

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Millar was only allowed to ride in the Olympics due to the fact that the BOA were forced to allow dopers to participate. Wiggins himself publicly announced that he did not want Millar in the team. In the end it was not in the BOA's hands.

I have heard this before, but it's missing the point. Being allowed to and actually doing so are 2 different things.

Millar was on the long list of 8 and beat 3 other riders to make the team of 5.

As for Wiggins publicly saying anything, forgive my tinfoil hat but consider this:

1. Wiggins does not want Millar in the team, but Millar gets selected anyway, over 3 other riders, Wiggins says the team is the strongest ever.

2. Brailsford says yes to Kimmage but at the last minute Brad says no and Kimmage suddenly cannot be on board for the Tour in 2012.

I went looking for any hint of Wiggins being unhappy, but could not find it. Would seem a strange thing to say given Millar's sister is Brad's team PR officer.

 

[Don Quixote]

That's an interesting angle - and it makes sense / is believable.

I am particularly interested in the human aspect of doping and pro cycling - the psychology of it, and being able to empathise as an important first step in coming up with "solutions".

I realise it is OT here, but do you think the motivation to dope carries an underlying theme applicable regardless of race or culture?

Wiggo, I do have thoughts on this but I need to relay them when I'm sober, beacuse they're pretty rad.

 

[racyrichuk]

Sunday Telegraph is reporting Yates is gone from Sky.

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/262300753681592320/photo/1/large

 

[Don Quixote]

Sunday Telegraph is reporting Yates is gone from Sky.

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/262300753681592320/photo/1/large

Expected, but oddly still a shock.

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Sunday Telegraph is reporting Yates is gone from Sky.

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/262300753681592320/photo/1/large

Sky will need to find someone else with a driving license now.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Sky will need to find someone else with a driving license now.

And who will tend the gardens in Manchester?

 

[Froome19]

So the Zero tolerance policy is working after all..

 

[racyrichuk]

I wonder what the terms of his leaving are. The paper suggests he left before he was pushed. Previous reports say this means he could leave with his contract paid off. Is he allowed to work elsewhere during that contract period. Because I can imagine he'll have no trouble getting another DS job elsewhere. Leaving and getting a double income would be particularly galling!

 

[hatcher]

But I thought it was to stop dopers from confessing. What's going on?

 

[Benotti69]

Yates and De Jongh are gone:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/ot...s-Dave-Brailsfords-doping-cull-continues.html

Brailsford emptying the cupboards to make space ready for Wiggins, Froome, Rogers etc etc

 

[armchairclimber]

So, we have a team actually purging anyone with past doping connections. Any of the clinic fundamentalists actually going to say "well done"?

 

[Stueyy]

Brailsford is banking on them all keeping their mouth shut which surprise surprise they have. The doping culture hasn't changed one bit with the current riders, none coming forward to spill the beans...

 

[armchairclimber]

Brailsford is banking on them all keeping their mouth shut which surprise surprise they have. The doping culture hasn't changed one bit with the current riders, none coming forward to spill the beans...

Crackers. He didn't have tod do this. He could have just given them a pay rise.