Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[MartinGT]

I agree. Brailsford should've resigned!

He was there when Millar was arrested. He knew it all. He is lying about being shocked.

I hope someone gets sick of his hypocrisy and blows the lid on Sky!

All this "shocked" b0ll0cks is just what it is, b0ll0cks.

I am just about finishing Riis book and he talks about people having reputations in it.

Do people like DB think were mugs?

 

[Mellow Velo]

I agree. Brailsford should've resigned!

He was there when Millar was arrested. He knew it all. He is lying about being shocked.

I hope someone gets sick of his hypocrisy and blows the lid on Sky!

What are you on about?
You seem to be saying Brailsford should be sacked for lying about an emotion.

This place is the absolute pits.
Wanted Yates gone and he's gone.
Guess what? More criticism.
I've seen posts here on why Team Ekimov, Team Piti etc should get a free pass because the are dopers and proud of it.

Now, that's real hypocrisy in action.

Not even prepared to wait and see who else goes out of Sky's door.

 

[Don Quixote]

Would you consider a significantly lower Sky points tally in 2013 to be caused by a) a cut in doping or b)the loss of key staff in 2012?

 

[Ferminal]

Would you consider a significantly lower Sky points tally in 2013 to be caused by a) a cut in doping or b)the loss of key staff in 2012?

Some may feel a) and b) are intertwined.

 

[Benotti69]

What are you on about?
You seem to be saying Brailsford should be sacked for lying about an emotion.

This place is the absolute pits.
Wanted Yates gone and he's gone.
Guess what? More criticism.
I've seen posts here on why Team Ekimov, Team Piti etc should get a free pass because the are dopers and proud of it.

Now, that's real hypocrisy in action.

Not even prepared to wait and see who else goes out of Sky's door.

Post links to Ekimovs PR about lying and riding clean and Team Katusha's statement about doing it clean and I will hang him with it.

If anyone is here believes Ekimov was clean needs serious help!

Brailsford lied to the papers when he wa asked about Dave Millar when Millar got busted. Brialsford is quite good at lying. Kimmage called him out on it in an interview for the Sunday Times (which is behind a paywall) otherwise i would quote it here.

Brailsford lied about not knowing the extent of doping at USPS! You mean being in the sport he would not have read LA Confidential, Lance to Landis, A rough ride, Wily Voets book to name a few!!!!!

Hell there is a wiki page dedicated to doping in cycling that is massive.

Brailsford lied and lied bigtime! Brailsford lied about not hiring anyone with a doping past! He got caught and made weak excuses then and his excuses have descended to pathetic.

 

[ebandit]

safe?

Maybe little Richie Porte is safe now?

safe.....................from your stalking?

above it was asked 'will knaven have to go as implicated in tvm?'

i guess implication is not enough staff would have to leave because of actual

activity not suggestion

jv will love all this clinic stuff.....................even more excuse to mouth

off to anyone daft enough to listen

 

[Don Quixote]

Some may feel a) and b) are intertwined.

Oh what tangled webs, perhaps they are. Make that c) then.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

When someone that wasn't already 99% proven to be doper steps down, I might believe in this policy. Everybody knew about these guys (come on, 1998 TVM?) - and so did Brailsford, who's now claiming to be a little innocent man oblivious to everything.

He should be the first to go. Then Rogers. Then I would accept this is more than PR.

I think you're setting your expectations a little low in requiring just Brailsford and Rogers to go before accepting it's not a PR exercise. By not requiring a confession on live TV from Wiggo and a public session at the Velodrome to through rotten fruit at Froome in a set of stocks made out of cast-off Dogmas, you're seriously exposing yourself to the risk of being labelled a Sky fanboy/apologist.

 

[hrotha]

The jackpot is d) systematic drop in British performance across pretty much all Olympic sports

 

[Libertine Seguros]

PS: I'm not necessarily disbelieving in Sky's new anti-doping policy-I do appreciate the effort to cut ties with the rotten apples--I'm just so fvcking frustrated with empty promises & full of doubts about every single person in Pro-cycling--that's all

This is precisely the problem! They came into the sport in 2010 promising cleanliness and transparency, but we come into 2013 with them setting up a new anti-doping policy, because their previous zero tolerance was shown to be an impermeable as a seive.

This is a PR gesture that is needed to rehab their image because even the gullible press can see dominant racing performances, guys involved in the team who were involved in the Armstrong fallout, and join the dots, and start asking Brailsford questions he doesn't want to answer. Clearly he hoped the Olympics would distract people and these questions would go away, as shown by his running away from questions about Leinders at the Worlds and the eventual disappearance of the talk of his Manchester Q & A session. Now the questions have to be asked, and he's got to look like he's still specifically anti-doping, so he's got to jettison all these guys.

He and the team backed themselves into a corner with their rhetoric, so that now their only option is to have a clear-out and continue to parrot the "we didn't know, zero tolerance here" line until it comes into accepted belief through repetition. Just like Lance's "never tested positive", "most tested athlete" lines and so on. The trick will be finding the balance of the right number of people to jettison to convince people of the hardline policy whilst not drawing attention outside of the specialist press that might cause their 2012 to face wider questioning.

 

[blackcat]

need to..

sign...


Christine
Ohuruogu

just to

jettison

her

for credibility

 

[Benotti69]

This is precisely the problem! They came into the sport in 2010 promising cleanliness and transparency, but we come into 2013 with them setting up a new anti-doping policy, because their previous zero tolerance was shown to be an impermeable as a seive.

This is a PR gesture that is needed to rehab their image because even the gullible press can see dominant racing performances, guys involved in the team who were involved in the Armstrong fallout, and join the dots, and start asking Brailsford questions he doesn't want to answer. Clearly he hoped the Olympics would distract people and these questions would go away, as shown by his running away from questions about Leinders at the Worlds and the eventual disappearance of the talk of his Manchester Q & A session. Now the questions have to be asked, and he's got to look like he's still specifically anti-doping, so he's got to jettison all these guys.

He and the team backed themselves into a corner with their rhetoric, so that now their only option is to have a clear-out and continue to parrot the "we didn't know, zero tolerance here" line until it comes into accepted belief through repetition. Just like Lance's "never tested positive", "most tested athlete" lines and so on. The trick will be finding the balance of the right number of people to jettison to convince people of the hardline policy whilst not drawing attention outside of the specialist press that might cause their 2012 to face wider questioning.

What they are doing is trying to sever all links between them and doping as now that Armstrong has gone down journalists might get a bit braver and dig into Sky's total dominance this year. So Brailsford is jettosing all the weight that will drag him down and point to the doping at Sky in a sport riddled with doping.

We are not all stupid. Wiggins finished 4th behind 2 known dopers and Schleck who is a doper but we have no direct link to anything yet. That Wiggins was up there is a sign of doping when compared with his pevious performances in GTs.

So Brailsford is hoping journalists wont add 1 + 1 with Wiggins and find that this answer is staring them in the face.

 

[goggalor]

This is quality entertainment. So far 4 clean team DSs/coaches/doctors sacked because of doping. Now let's move on to the riders!

Zero tolerance. Starting from now.

 

[Velo_vicar]

What they are doing is trying to sever all links between them and doping as now that Armstrong has gone down journalists might get a bit braver and dig into Sky's total dominance this year. So Brailsford is jettosing all the weight that will drag him down and point to the doping at Sky in a sport riddled with doping.

We are not all stupid. Wiggins finished 4th behind 2 known dopers and Schleck who is a doper but we have no direct link to anything yet. That Wiggins was up there is a sign of doping when compared with his pevious performances in GTs.

So Brailsford is hoping journalists wont add 1 + 1 with Wiggins and find that this answer is staring them in the face.

i can't keep up. Didn't the infallibale Pope Kimmage declare Garmin dope free in 2009? It is hard to follow who is trust worthy or not. Hamilton and Landis lied for years but are now sainted and infallibale. Millar lied but confessed but is holier than thou. JV is still in the sport so can't be trusted and a team that is putting out the strongest anti doping policy is obviously trying to hide something. David Hands beleives Julich's confession but we need to beleive Hands because he is a good guy, but he also believes Mcgee who can't be right because he works for Saxo. Oh if only i had the of some in here to believe that everyone of them cheats and still lie and that there is no one to trust except my own subjective opinion. then I would be able to bend any event or statement into my already formed conclusion and continually pat myself on the back and relax in my own self righteousness. It is difficult to beleive that some people might not be perfect and yet might be telling the truth.

 

[Mellow Velo]

Post links to Ekimovs PR about lying and riding clean and Team Katusha's statement about doing it clean and I will hang him with it.

If anyone is here believes Ekimov was clean needs serious help!

Brailsford lied and lied bigtime! Brailsford lied about not hiring anyone with a doping past! He got caught and made weak excuses then and his excuses have descended to pathetic.

That's what I'm saying.
Team Ekimov says and does nothing, i.e. Upholds Omerta and around here we get.........................................................
Team Brailsford gets rid (so far) of 3 employees with a doping past, but he himself alone, is and was a liar for employing them in the first place and gets hammered from all sides.
Setting up new teams that are 100% guaranteed "clean" is extremely difficult. (for you, impossible, because everybody is dirty)
Orica GreenEdge are another example.
Perhaps background checks should be a teams number one priority?


He got caught lying? Did he? OK, Julich and Yates, may have come back to haunt him, but De Jongh?

Seems to be, the goal posts around here have shifted again, from Yates, to Brailsford himself.
I suppose the only "right" that Sky can do around here is fold altogether.

Which leads me to say two things.
1) Time will tell
2) The attitude of certain members of the Clinic display questionable priorities that can only stem from one thing: results.

 

[Mrs John Murphy]

When has anyone ever declared: Hamilton, Landis or Kimmage infallible?

MV - maybe no one is talking about Katusha because no one has any expectations of them ever pretending to be clean. No one has any pretension that any of the Spanish teams or Belgian teams will ride clean.

You're sounding like Frodo with your 'sky are the victims here, look at how bad everyone else is' Sky made a rod for their own backs by shoving 'we're doing it clean' down everyone's throats.

You make your bed and that's the one you've got to lie in.

 

[Benotti69]

i can't keep up. Didn't the infallibale Pope Kimmage declare Garmin dope free in 2009? It is hard to follow who is trust worthy or not. Hamilton and Landis lied for years but are now sainted and infallibale. Millar lied but confessed but is holier than thou. JV is still in the sport so can't be trusted and a team that is putting out the strongest anti doping policy is obviously trying to hide something. David Hands beleives Julich's confession but we need to beleive Hands because he is a good guy, but he also believes Mcgee who can't be right because he works for Saxo. Oh if only i had the of some in here to believe that everyone of them cheats and still lie and that there is no one to trust except my own subjective opinion. then I would be able to bend any event or statement into my already formed conclusion and continually pat myself on the back and relax in my own self righteousness. It is difficult to beleive that some people might not be perfect and yet might be telling the truth.

It is not hard to sift through the sport and see where the doping occurs if you are not new to the sport.

Let fanboyism get in the way and you might aswell forget about doping because you wont want to believe your hero dopes. Hence so many Brit fanboys doing their best to deny Wiggins amazing transformation from the grupetto to the podium at 32.

 

[Bushranger]

It will be interesting to see where they will find expierienced coaches/DS who are not implicated in doping.

Yeah a team with no riders either.

 

[blackcat]

Sky will now go to their B strategy

BBC + BSkyB

Vaughters and Burston Marstellar pioneered this domain.

I think that Ruperts daughter is married to one of the heads of communications in City, a Freud and a close relative of Bernays. Brailsford, get them on the phone. stat!

 

[zigmeister]

On the one hand, I applaud Sky with their attempt to provide the "appearance" of running a clean program and working to clean up the sport in such a staunch manner.

On the other hand, I really think they have gone off the deep end with these tactics and canning everybody on the spot..

How many of these guys have been employed at Sky before the USADA report and confessions lately, that had a doping past? If Sky was that committed to a clean sport, why now are they performing this cleansing instead of a year or two ago?

I guess it is easier than trying to make press releases, explain things away and have the assurance that doping isn't part of the culture ever, past or present, and just fire them and purge the team and let them go find a job at the LBS and be someonelse's problem.

Also, I suppose it is easier to strike the iron while hot in the midst of it and just let these people be part of the fall-out. Makes them look better.

 

[Freddythefrog]

This is precisely the problem! They came into the sport in 2010 promising cleanliness and transparency, but we come into 2013 with them setting up a new anti-doping policy, because their previous zero tolerance was shown to be an impermeable as a seive.

This is a PR gesture that is needed to rehab their image because even the gullible press can see dominant racing performances, guys involved in the team who were involved in the Armstrong fallout, and join the dots, and start asking Brailsford questions he doesn't want to answer. Clearly he hoped the Olympics would distract people and these questions would go away, as shown by his running away from questions about Leinders at the Worlds and the eventual disappearance of the talk of his Manchester Q & A session. Now the questions have to be asked, and he's got to look like he's still specifically anti-doping, so he's got to jettison all these guys.

He and the team backed themselves into a corner with their rhetoric, so that now their only option is to have a clear-out and continue to parrot the "we didn't know, zero tolerance here" line until it comes into accepted belief through repetition. Just like Lance's "never tested positive", "most tested athlete" lines and so on. The trick will be finding the balance of the right number of people to jettison to convince people of the hardline policy whilst not drawing attention outside of the specialist press that might cause their 2012 to face wider questioning.

A lot of good points. Already retired Barry is inconvenient. Yates - I could never understand what he added. Julrich & De Jongh - not vital.

Now if Sutton goes, the story changes from more spin to actually backing up words with action.

 

[Benotti69]

That's what I'm saying.
Team Ekimov says and does nothing, i.e. Upholds Omerta and around here we get.........................................................

No one thinks Eki, Katusha or any teams are clean unless they have had a lobotomy recently!

Team Brailsford gets rid (so far) of 3 employees with a doping past, but he himself alone, is and was a liar for employing them in the first place and gets hammered from all sides.

Brailsford is a liar, pure and simple. Proven with Millar's arrest in Nice. He is sacking people for telling lies about their past. Hypocrite. He stated they were going to be squeaky clean. He lied. He hired doping doctors including Yates with a dirty past and strong connection to Armstrong and then lies about how shocked and surprised he is. What a doochebag!

Setting up new teams that are 100% guaranteed "clean" is extremely difficult. (for you, impossible, because everybody is dirty)

Why state it and treat fans like idiots and then be surprised when fans bite back! Shows what an idiot he is!

Orica GreenEdge are another example.
Perhaps background checks should be a teams number one priority?

I doubt they are clean! But there statements are zero compared to holier than thou Sky!

He got caught lying? Did he? OK, Julich and Yates, may have come back to haunt him, but De Jongh?

Depends if he does something stupid like what Armstrong did to Landis, but it seems people are getting lots of moeny to buy their silence. But we are not geting told how much. The team of transparency fails again!

Seems to be, the goal posts around here have shifted again, from Yates, to Brailsford himself.
I suppose the only "right" that Sky can do around here is fold altogether.

Sky thread. Yates and Brailsford are part of Sky. When a team does wrong, why does the DS get off the hook? He should take the fall a well as those who have done wrong, he hired them he should go!

Which leads me to say two things.
1) Time will tell
2) The attitude of certain members of the Clinic display questionable priorities that can only stem from one thing: results.

Keep shooting the members of the clinic and not the culprits. Clinic does not have an input into making the sport dirty. Shoot those who do!

 

[blackcat]

if they were to turf Wiggins and Cav and Hoy, that would show some good ol British stiff upper lip

 

[Dear Wiggo]

need to..

sign...


Christine
Ohuruogu

just to

jettison

her

for credibility

posten style uv

captaintbag

n'est pas?

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

It is not hard to sift through the sport and see where the doping occurs if you are not new to the sport.

Let fanboyism get in the way and you might aswell forget about doping because you wont want to believe your hero dopes. Hence so many Brit fanboys doing their best to deny Wiggins amazing transformation from the grupetto to the podium at 32.

You make it sound like Wiggins appeared from nowhere this year but if I was to point out that was untrue I'd just be labelled a 'fanboy' so I won't bother.