Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[ebandit]

usps v sky

Pity there's not a British (and Spanish, Italian etc.) equivalent of Travis Tygart to extract convincing witness testimonies under oath with threat of severe penalty for perjury. How come the yanks are the only ones able to sort that out? That's a rhetorical question, you don't have to answer, I'm sure someone's already asked it & it's been covered.

difference is unlike the usada case there is still no proof of sky doping

there was so much evidence of usps doping and look how long that evidence

took to be officially recognised

despite comparisons sky are not usps we await proof

of course the clinic come up with suggestion but nothing that would stick

so we have an ever growing number of posts going round and round but

the truth is the most important info could be written on the back of a

cigarette packet

 

[Benotti69]

difference is unlike the usada case there is still no proof of sky doping

there was so much evidence of usps doping and look how long that evidence

took to be officially recognised

despite comparisons sky are not usps we await proof

of course the clinic come up with suggestion but nothing that would stick

so we have an ever growing number of posts going round and round but

the truth is the most important info could be written on the back of a

cigarette packet

I think the Leinders evidence that the Clinic came up with stuck. So much so that they got rid of him!

The Clinic's knowledge of the doping faux pas of those at Sky ensured that they were axed.

If the Clinic was not calling these out, these people would still be at Sky.

 

[Avoriaz]

I think the Leinders evidence that the Clinic came up with stuck. So much so that they got rid of him!

The Clinic's knowledge of the doping faux pas of those at Sky ensured that they were axed.

If the Clinic was not calling these out, these people would still be at Sky.

Which is evidence only of Leinders working with Sky, not evidence of Sky doping, much as many believe/want it to be.

A man can own a gun; it doesn't mean he is a killer.

Sit tight and the birds might sing but they haven't yet

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

Pity there's not a British (and Spanish, Italian etc.) equivalent of Travis Tygart to extract convincing witness testimonies under oath with threat of severe penalty for perjury. How come the yanks are the only ones able to sort that out? That's a rhetorical question, you don't have to answer, I'm sure someone's already asked it & it's been covered.

My understanding is that the USPS riders all fessed up initially as part of the criminal investigation re fraudulent use of federal funds at USPS. As Hamilton said in his book, "When armed US marshalls knock on your door, you're out of options. You tell the truth." (I paraphrase, but that's the gist of things.)

Having fessed up, the riders then ran the risk of being nobbled for perjury if they didn't also tell the truth to USADA. Not quite sure how this would have worked in practice, but one can see why the riders would "sing" to USADA to avoid the risk of going to jail, even if they might have got away with lying to USADA.

I think USADA are probably more keen to pursue things than some other national bodies but even so, they would have struggled to do much without the criminal angle, which only arose because Lance's team was sponsored by a state agency, rather than a private organisation. As I understand it, the criminal investigation wasn't concerned with doping per se, but misuse of funds, though as the misuse was to procure PEDs, the two issues are inextricably linked.

 

[Grandillusion]

Got it W&G, thanks for that. Wish all these other national agencies could get their act together with the same efficiency as the U.S. ones.

 

[Benotti69]

Which is evidence only of Leinders working with Sky, not evidence of Sky doping, much as many believe/want it to be.

A man can own a gun; it doesn't mean he is a killer.

Sit tight and the birds might sing but they haven't yet

In cycling doctors involved in doping reform and just give training plans.

Dont believe the Sky hype.

In cycling there is only one reason to have a gun.

The birds have been singing for along time in this sport. Some people choose to ignore their songs of woe.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Got it W&G, thanks for that. Wish all these other national agencies could get their act together with the same efficiency as the U.S. ones.

The Italians are coming down hard, believe me

What's needed is a reform of the UCI first and foremost

 

[Mellow Velo]

I think the Leinders evidence that the Clinic came up with stuck. So much so that they got rid of him!

The Clinic's knowledge of the doping faux pas of those at Sky ensured that they were axed.

If the Clinic was not calling these out, these people would still be at Sky.

Those who fail to condemn Sky are considered delusional.
Meanwhile, on the other side of the Clinic coin, we now have delusions of grandeur.
Comedy central, these days.

 

[blackcat]

Pity there's not a British (and Spanish, Italian etc.) equivalent of Travis Tygart to extract convincing witness testimonies under oath with threat of severe penalty for perjury. How come the yanks are the only ones able to sort that out? That's a rhetorical question, you don't have to answer, I'm sure someone's already asked it & it's been covered.

but did not TT get the benefit of a guy (Novi) who had the authority to compel testimony.

The Australian ex Justice (judge) Wood wont be able to compel testimony. The UK equivalent of USADA could not. And why should they run roughshod over athletes anyhow. If you follow the sport with any interest, you know they do not stand to scrutiny and rigour. What else is to know? Let the johnny public have their feast during July. Its just a little galling when the jingoists and nationalists like DimSpace put much into their j'accuse on Armstrong, and fail on the current iteration. Primary reason, it is their guys, their team, their countrymen. That is unedifying

 

[andy1234]

I think the Leinders evidence that the Clinic came up with stuck. So much so that they got rid of him!

The Clinic's knowledge of the doping faux pas of those at Sky ensured that they were axed.

If the Clinic was not calling these out, these people would still be at Sky.

Now that is funny. Thanks for the light relief.

You do realise the clinic simply gossips about the actions of others, don't you?
Its the mirror, not the object.

 

[Grandillusion]

but did not TT get the benefit of a guy (Novi) who had the authority to compel testimony.

The Australian ex Justice (judge) Wood wont be able to compel testimony. The UK equivalent of USADA could not. And why should they run roughshod over athletes anyhow. If you follow the sport with any interest, you know they do not stand to scrutiny and rigour. What else is to know? Let the johnny public have their feast during July. Its just a little galling when the jingoists and nationalists like DimSpace put much into their j'accuse on Armstrong, and fail on the current iteration. Primary reason, it is their guys, their team, their countrymen. That is unedifying

Run roughshod? Your post makes it sound as if you're not actually bothered about the doping, disdainful of johnny public & his July feast, and only bothered about the trivial issue of Nationalistic ****ing matches between fans.
Sorry, don't mean to sound aggro, it just sounds like that.

Wouldn't it be great for cycling if they could "run roughshod"? Bingo, clean sport.

 

[blackcat]

Run roughshod? Your post makes it sound as if you're not actually bothered about the doping, disdainful of johnny public & his July feast, and only bothered about the trivial issue of Nationalistic ****ing matches between fans.
Sorry, don't mean to sound aggro, it just sounds like that.

Wouldn't it be great for cycling if they could "run roughshod"? Bingo, clean sport.

Grandillusion, you have not read my history of posts. thats ok, not syaing you should. And I can appreciate what that post in isolation says.

But it completely misrepresents the totality of posts and narrative of mine on doping in cycling.

dont beat up on the individual athletes. dont criminalise kohl, ricco, rumsas.

even armstrong, I am conflicted about a criminal pursuit.

the doctors, mcquad, verburggen, weisel et al. that is DIFFERENT. I dont think the athletes should be in jail.

why should Chris Hoy and soon to be, Wiggins, get knighthoods, but effectively, no different to Ricco, getting their results from the barrel of the hypodermic. take the PEDs out, they cant beat the other PED glowing athletes.

 

[Benotti69]

Now that is funny. Thanks for the light relief.

You do realise the clinic simply gossips about the actions of others, don't you?
Its the mirror, not the object.

Still following me with your sticky hand i see.

 

[Benotti69]

Those who fail to condemn Sky are considered delusional.
Meanwhile, on the other side of the Clinic coin, we now have delusions of grandeur.
Comedy central, these days.

Not delusions of grandeur at all.

Vaughter's feels he has to post in here as good PR for his teams clean image. He has stated if the teams paid $750K for anti doping he wouldn't have "to do this crap".

Armstrong has been getting banned from here for years.

Why would Sky care what most of their fans like you think? They know you swallowed their gip about being clean.

It is the Boneidle W**kers and C**ts that has them making these calls!

 

[Parker]

I think the Leinders evidence that the Clinic came up with stuck. So much so that they got rid of him!

The Clinic's knowledge of the doping faux pas of those at Sky ensured that they were axed.

If the Clinic was not calling these out, these people would still be at Sky.

The Clinic has 'called out' over a dozen people at Sky - they are mostly still there. Please don't think you have any importance.

 

[Grandillusion]

Grandillusion, you have not read my history of posts. thats ok, not syaing you should. And I can appreciate what that post in isolation says.

But it completely misrepresents the totality of posts and narrative of mine on doping in cycling.

dont beat up on the individual athletes. dont criminalise kohl, ricco, rumsas.

even armstrong, I am conflicted about a criminal pursuit.

the doctors, mcquad, verburggen, weisel et al. that is DIFFERENT. I dont think the athletes should be in jail.

why should Chris Hoy and soon to be, Wiggins, get knighthoods, but effectively, no different to Ricco, getting their results from the barrel of the hypodermic. take the PEDs out, they cant beat the other PED glowing athletes.

Yep, I see what you mean - I'm with you on not wanting extreme criminal sanctions against the riders (and the USPS guys haven't suffered such sanction for their doping have they?).

Apologies again if any offence caused

 

[Dear Wiggo]

The Clinic has 'called out' over a dozen people at Sky - they are mostly still there. Please don't think you have any importance.

Over a dozen? Is that the Clinic dozen?

Froome
Wiggins
Rogers
Porte

All the guys who are gone from the admin / coaching staff

Brailsford
Sutton

So far we're doing 50% - not bad I reckon.

Anyone heard from Kerrison lately? Seems awfully quiet for the mastermind behind the most successful season in cycling since uh Eddy Merckx.

 

[andy1234]

Still following me with your sticky hand i see.

Delusions of grandeur again?
Keep posting sh1te, and I will keep commenting.

 

[Tinman]

why should ... soon to be, Wiggins, get knighthoods

After yesterday's finger "Sir no longer". Not her majesty's cup of tea.

Now a picture of a nude Wiggins shagging a fan from behind, that would be tolerable.

 

[ebandit]

funny?

Still following me with your sticky hand i see.

such a post is typical of what is bad about the clinic............too many

long term posters resorting to insults ............it's not even funny

yes! sky ditched lienders..............but has he even been proven of doping

at rabobank? lienders would not drive procedure at team sky

next clinic posters will be saying that a team is doping because they employ

previously sanctioned riders

 

[Tinman]

such a post is typical of what is bad about the clinic............too many

long term posters resorting to insults ............it's not even funny

yes! sky ditched lienders..............but has he even been proven of doping

at rabobank? lienders would not drive procedure at team sky

next clinic posters will be saying that a team is doping because they employ

previously sanctioned riders

the future.............will

see no role for.............anyone with

any.................connection to doping period

and will see..................no uniqueness to.................any

particular ebandit claimed................style of posting

just focus on..............content

 

[ebandit]

content?

the future.............will

see no role for.............anyone with

any.................connection to doping period

and will see..................no uniqueness to.................any

particular ebandit claimed................style of posting

just focus on..............content

what content?

 

[RownhamHill]

Over a dozen? Is that the Clinic dozen?

Froome
Wiggins
Rogers
Porte

All the guys who are gone from the admin / coaching staff

Brailsford
Sutton

So far we're doing 50% - not bad I reckon.

Anyone heard from Kerrison lately? Seems awfully quiet for the mastermind behind the most successful season in cycling since uh Eddy Merckx.

I don't get this. What are you doing 50% of?

 

[Benotti69]

Why are Sky not sining up to MPCC?

 

[Benotti69]

such a post is typical of what is bad about the clinic............too many

long term posters resorting to insults ............it's not even funny

yes! sky ditched lienders..............but has he even been proven of doping

at rabobank? lienders would not drive procedure at team sky

next clinic posters will be saying that a team is doping because they employ

previously sanctioned riders

See this is what is wrong with posters ignoring the past lies of the sport and burying their heads in the sand and not questioning teams when they say they are clean but have a big dodgy line up that they said they would not resort to hiring and when called out hiring a doping docotr on it use the death of a staff member to justify hiring a guy who was not even at the GTs for which he was apparently hired!