Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I think they may have bought out the final year of Ben Swift's contract with Katusha as well.

His Wiki site says that he signed a 2 year deal with Katusha in 2009, but only rode for 1 season before joining Sky.

Thanks Wallace.

But again, who cares why Wiggins left Garmin for Sky, or how Sky approached him, or how much they paid to break his contract. How is it relevant here? As relevant as him smoking on holiday? Or whether he grew up in Kilburn or Maida Vale? (Apparently it was actually Westminster). None of it makes him a doper, although it does provide extra opportunity to b!tch about him and Sky I suppose

Possible pattern of lying Jimmy? Credibility issue.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Possible pattern of lying Jimmy? Credibility issue.

It's putting as negative as possible spin on any situation involving Brailsford/Wiggins/Sky. In politics it would be called a smear campaign, in the media character assassination. You're trying to convict Sky of doping, so you create a story of dubious morality to make that picture more compelling. It still remains an irrelevance, and calling what Wiggins said to explain his decision to sign for Sky a 'lie' is a massive stretch anyway.

Robin Van Persie said he couldn't imagine playing for anyone than Arsenal, that winning anything with another club wouldn't be the same, then 12 months later he signed for Manchester United. It's life, it's the world, and moral indignation over an employee breaking a contract and moving between employers (and where one was handsomely compensated) and linking that to doping is a huge over-statement.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

It helps when the team hires dope doctors, a rider has a transformation that would make Stephen Schumacher's head spin, and another rider performs better than he ever did when he was clients of Dr. Ferrari. I guess Garmin does not have enough marginal gains. Still they managed to win the Giro, which could be seen as the end of a stead progression rather than a magical Sky-like transformation.

The simple fact is that Wiggins thought he had a better chance of winning and as a bonus would be better paid and would lead a British team. You can try and spin it all you want.

They hired Cav and his train instead, leaving the GT side of things to be built on the Kohl-like rise of Vroome.

And Cav was left to fend for himself most of the Tour. So much so that he realised he had made a bad move and moved on. His train consisting of Eisel and... well...

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

What do you mean "seem".
It does make perfect sense, now!!

But it didn't make sense back on 2010.

Why not? Being better paid and being told that the team would be built around you for the aim of winning the Tour as well as being part of the nearest thing to a British national pro team. Can you not see how that might appeal to Wiggins?

Back to the cash rich argument again.
Sure, they are one of the best funded teams, but unlike most other teams over the years Sky didn't buy in proven performers in GTs.

But in 2010 it could easily have seemed that they could and would (Using you very argument from the first point ).

 

[workingclasshero]

Sorry, BroDeal, but the ignore function means I can't read your latest reply. I don't believe any further discussion will be useful in any event.

thanks for that post, very useful despite you not being able to respond to the schooling you recieved. But please, do keep us informed every time you have not read something. Love the self-loving.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Nothing wrong with self-loving

 

[RownhamHill]

Here you go. Apologies for the length:



I got rid of some of the spacing between paragraphs so it wouldn't be quite so long.

Thanks a lot for this, appreciated.

 

[Surfdelux]

Why is this Sky thread so long?
Can someone summarise the kerfuffle for us?
Sky is clean dont you know! That's why they kept Swede Thomas Lövkvist and made him the pillar of the team. Hahahahaha!!!
No place for a clean former best young rider there.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

It's putting as negative as possible spin on any situation involving Brailsford/Wiggins/Sky. In politics it would be called a smear campaign, in the media character assassination. You're trying to convict Sky of doping, so you create a story of dubious morality to make that picture more compelling. It still remains an irrelevance, and calling what Wiggins said to explain his decision to sign for Sky a 'lie' is a massive stretch anyway.

Jimmy, I think you are being too harsh. A clear pattern of lying can be found with Brad.

We have the 'why leave Garmin for Sky' lie.
We have the 'I love Lance' lie.
We have the 'If there's a 1% suspicion or doubt that a team is working with certain doctors, then they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France - as simple as that' lie.

There must be more out there but we might say, and you are allowed to disagree with me, he is not Mister Sincere.

If that is smearing I must disagree.

 

[Netserk]

WIGGINS Bradley
BARRY Michael
CUMMINGS Stephen
FLECHA GIANNONI Juan Antonio
GERRANS Simon
BOASSON HAGEN Edvald
LÖFKVIST Thomas
PAUWELS Serge
THOMAS Geraint

compared to:

VANDE VELDE Christian
DEAN Julian
FARRAR Tyler
HESJEDAL Ryder
HUNTER Robert
MAASKANT Martijn
MILLAR David
VANSUMMEREN Johan
ZABRISKIE David

 

[JimmyFingers]

Jimmy, I think you are being too harsh. A clear pattern of lying can be found with Brad.

We have the 'why leave Garmin for Sky' lie.
We have the 'I love Lance' lie.
We have the 'If there's a 1% suspicion or doubt that a team is working with certain doctors, then they shouldn't be invited to the Tour de France - as simple as that' lie.

There must be more out there but we might say, and you are allowed to disagree with me, he is not Mister Sincere.

If that is smearing I must disagree.

I think you need to look up the word 'lie'.

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Team Sky's classics outfit, including Geraint Thomas, Bernhard Eisel and Edvald Boasson Hagen, will train in the relative seclusion of Mount Teide, Tenerife for close to two weeks ahead of Milano-Sanremo

More...

Ha ha. I think I can see what people are going to post here in relation to this...

 

[ebandit]

lie de die

I think you need to look up the word 'lie'.

i think it's going to be sunny.....................ah! a blatant lie as here in the uk
'tis always raining of late

since when was inconsistancies in a riders thoughts either lying or an
indication of doping?

..............to those who hope to be proven correct

 

[Netserk]

More...

Ha ha. I think I can see what people are going to post here in relation to this...

Yep. Including Pinotti

Almost everyone prepares for the classics with either P-N or T-A. If one instead 'trains' to fitness, it is very suspicious.

 

[JimmyFingers]

More...

Ha ha. I think I can see what people are going to post here in relation to this...

It's where they mine all the EPO. Ferrari lives in a cavern deep beneath it where he is building his secret army while he plots to take over the world.

Ace

 

[JimmyFingers]

i think it's going to be sunny.....................ah! a blatant lie as here in the uk
'tis always raining of late

since when was inconsistancies in a riders thoughts either lying or an
indication of doping?

..............to those who hope to be proven correct

Calling him saying he left Garmin to go to Sky because he thought they would win him GTs a 'lie' is frankly daft, especially given he's just won a GT with them. While equally he could have won a GT at Garmin, Sky had big ambitions, wanted to win the Tour within 5 years with a British rider and wanted him to be that rider. It's not rocket science really.

 

[The Hitch]

So if wiggins was not part of the plan how on earth did sky hope to win the tour with a British rider by 2014?

I mean bailsford is supposed to be this intelligent top professional. Top ds in the world.

Yet unless doping is involved how on earth did he expect to find a gt winner? Tdf winners are 1 in a million. What on earth made him.think he could find someone who could even finish top 20? Let alone in such a shot time limit

 

[ebandit]

sky high

So if wiggins was not part of the plan how on earth did sky hope to win the tour with a British rider by 2014?

did team sky not buy out brads garmin contract? so clearly he was part of the
plan

where is the link to doping?

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

So if wiggins was not part of the plan how on earth did sky hope to win the tour with a British rider by 2014?

Pete Kennaugh.

At the time of Sky's launch, DB's line was that there were guys in the academy whose "numbers" were consistent with winning GTs in the stated time frame. PK is the best of his generation, though his road development has been held back by his track efforts in the last couple of years. (Until relatively late in the 2012 Olympic cycle, Wiggins was expected to come back into the TP squad, so I don't think PK was originally earmarked for the TP in 2012.)

This all has to be taken with a pinch of salt, and might just have been marketing hype, but if Sky had really wanted Wiggo at their inception, they'd have signed him up before the 2009 Tour, when he'd have been a lot cheaper than he ultimately was.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

did team sky not buy out brads garmin contract? so clearly he was part of the plan

He wasn't in early 2009, when Sky announced its intentions.

He was by late July 2009 though, when it became clear that there was a homegrown Olympic British hero with GT potential.

 

[xcleigh]

Almost everyone prepares for the classics with either P-N or T-A. If one instead 'trains' to fitness, it is very suspicious.

I've never quite understood this outlook. Just because everyone else uses races such as P-N or T-A and it's a traditional way of doing something that doesn't mean it's the right or correct way. It's worked in the past but why not look at different ways of approaching races. Not everyone perhaps benefits from the 'traditional' race to fitness approach. Nothing suspicious in exploring and trying new things in racing and training is there?

 

[del1962]

I've never quite understood this outlook. Just because everyone else uses races such as P-N or T-A and it's a traditional way of doing something that doesn't mean it's the right or correct way. It's worked in the past but why not look at different ways of approaching races. Not everyone perhaps benefits from the 'traditional' race to fitness approach. Nothing suspicious in exploring and trying new things in racing and training is there?

Totally agree with this, training as preperation is generally better than racing (with the previso that a certain number of races are needed, but these have to be competitive, not just using them as training).

You cant do intervals training within racing, and this is one of the most effective training methods there is.

 

[JimmyFingers]

He wasn't in early 2009, when Sky announced its intentions.

He was by late July 2009 though, when it became clear that there was a homegrown Olympic British hero with GT potential.

This. There was a lot of hyperbole with the Sky launch and Brailsford's bold prediction, and then Wiggins' sudden emergence as a GT contender in 2009, and British gold medalist, Sky had to have him as their poster boy. As has been pointed out, they did have other riders pencilled in as potential winners they were looking to develop, but in Brad they had a ready-made one.

Wiggins departure from Garmin may have been acrimonious, but it made perfect sense to join Sky; from a competitive angle, from a commercial angle, from a financial angle. I'm not saying Sky were any better equipped than Garmin at the time, but to claim Bradley's motivation for joining Sky to win a GT is a lie is nuts really. And look, he did.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

This. There was a lot of hyperbole with the Sky launch and Brailsford's bold prediction, and then Wiggins' sudden emergence as a GT contender in 2009, and British gold medalist, Sky had to have him as their poster boy. As has been pointed out, they did have other riders pencilled in as potential winners they were looking to develop, but in Brad they had a ready-made one.

Wiggins departure from Garmin may have been acrimonious, but it made perfect sense to join Sky; from a competitive angle, from a commercial angle, from a financial angle. I'm not saying Sky were any better equipped than Garmin at the time, but to claim Bradley's motivation for joining Sky to win a GT is a lie is nuts really. And look, he did.

So, you are of the opinion Brad had a chrystal ball that projected Chris Froome, Mick Rogers, Richie Porte and the Russian bloke were coming to Sky while he had on Garmin let us see:
* Chris VandeVelde
* David Millar
* Tom Danielson
* Ryder Hesjedal
* Dave Z.
And a lot of young guns coming up, like Dan Martin.

And, do note, Porte/Rogers/Froome and Sivtzov were certainly not of that calibre before joining Sky.

So yes, Brad lied big time on his motives to go to SKY. Or, should we say 'bend the truth'? If that suits you better I will change that Jimmy. For me it is lying.

And, do note too: Brad was at Garmin but was training with British Cycling [Rod Ellingworth], lost all that weight with the help of British Cycling [Nigel whats his name], under supervision of super Dave? I do not believe in coincidences given the history of cycling.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

So yes, Brad lied big time on his motives to go to SKY. Or, should we say 'bend the truth'? If that suits you better I will change that Jimmy. For me it is lying.

Fearless - You need to get out a bit more. Wiggo went for the money, but it's considered poor form in the UK to say such things. So a non-monetary reason has to be provided. But everyone - except a few diehards here! - knows he went for the money.