Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[markene2]

First post in the clinc ever, i just had to after todays stage. Porte became a beast after he joined SKY, too much of a beast for my taste to be clean.

Sure he had some talent, like the 9th or 7th place in the Giro, but that was after the huge breakaway. He should NEVER be able to blast past Menchov or Scarponi, and gain 33 seconds on such a short distance

 

[BroDeal]

As far as what Sky might be doing, in Australian Sport there is a big stink currently going on over alleged doping of Rugby League and AFL footballers (refer Australian Crime Commission thread). It is said they have been using "Peptides" that WADA added to the banned list around 2011. Does anyone know much about these Peptides and if they could be beneficial in road cycling e.g. assist in recovery?

Personally I had never heard of Peptides until the Australian Crime Commission and ASADA brought it up last month. I know Testosterone has been popular in Pro Cycling but maybe these Peptides do a similar thing but less detectable?

AOD-9604 for weight loss. It is currently in clinical trials, but there is so much stuff coming out of places like China that looking to clinical trials for what might be used is probably overlooking the bulk of what is available.

 

[martinvickers]

This also from My Time - from the Amazon summary. I was not aware of this at all:

Thought that was pretty common knowledge - it's discussed at length in the documentary too...

 

[WinterRider]

what a lot of u guys dont seem to realise is there's a million reasons why a cyclists performances can improve apart from doping. for example, SKY'S training in Tenerife gives them a big advantage i believe as they get in a dedicated block of high-altitude training in the winter which AFAIK most teams arent able to replicate.

Did all the old Livestrong interns get new jobs at Sky?

 

[del1962]

Riche Porte wins a bike race and the faux outrage in the clinic goes into overdrive.

Clever performance from Richie Porte letting Talansky expend his energies then jump in, then the rest of them just looking round at each other losing time.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The irony is, if Lopez would have done this back on Movistar for valverde or costa, or if he'd signed for cannondale and did it for Sagan, he'd be praised

Yea, because nobody would have considered it suspicious if a train of Movistar's climbers started beating up on people. This was asked many times (mostly by myself and Parrulo) last year. Take your train of Rogers, Porte, Froome, Wiggins. Substitute in guys from 2012 Movistar like Karpets (equivalent of Rogers - has top 10ed GTs, won prestigious one-week races, has a lot of good results back in '06-'07 but less recently), Arroyo (has podiumed a GT fortuitously - a bit like Porte only proved himself both better at climbing and better at descending in that race), Cobo (has won a GT), Plaza (has top 5ed a GT) and Costa (had just won the Tour de Suisse)... and do you think the thread would have got this long. No way. Why? Because nobody would have bought it. David López isn't a scrub, and it's wrong to suggest he is. He was very good in the leaderless 2011 Movistar team, for example. But if he was leading out Valverde (a much more accomplished and decorated climber than Porte), I'm sure at least a few people would have balked at it.

Not in here he wouldn't.

Who believes Movistar are not doping or cannondale.

There are more than Sky threads in here, if you care to look.

Movistar actually have a reputation for being comparatively conservative on the doping front, being more 'don't ask don't tell' than 'organised procedures'. Their recruitment policy clearly shows that they're not the hottest team in the world on anti-doping (guys like Ventoso and Valverde have served bans, while guys like Plaza come with a bit of baggage too), but their last doping positive was overturned (Costa), and before that we're headed all the way back to Fertonani in 2007.

Tapping into the Anglo-cycling market, after many markets got a little tighter, most notably now USA/LA has lost its allure. There is lots of money to be made and everyone will share in the profits. We just need new heroes to get people to open their wallets.

With Tour de France and Giro starts in the UK and Ireland; what would excite new fans/customers more than a 'ho(r)m(on)e grown' team. It worked in Germany (Team Ulle), the Netherlands (RAB), the USA(USPO).

The UCI approves of this message.

Bingo. When feeling most conspiracy-minded, I do sometimes feel like the increase in the number of race routes that suit the British riders at the same time as their breakout seems designed to capitalise on a popular wave to replace the now collapsed German market with all its races and the T-Mobile fad. That doesn't necessarily require they be doping, mind - just that the routes have been biased in favour of building that new audience.

ok so what the f*** do u guys think SKY are on??? roger ramjet power pills?? how are they gonna dope with blood passports??

Froome's having had a disease that affects the blood renders the passport value all but useless in his case as the values will be naturally inconsistent.

 

[the sceptic]

Did all the old Livestrong interns get new jobs at Sky?

the sky bots come in many different forms. Everything from concerned purist, scientist, to village idiot.

 

[thehog]

First post in the clinc ever, i just had to after todays stage. Porte became a beast after he joined SKY, too much of a beast for my taste to be clean.

Sure he had some talent, like the 9th or 7th place in the Giro, but that was after the huge breakaway. He should NEVER be able to blast past Menchov or Scarponi, and gain 33 seconds on such a short distance

Riis must be shaking his head.

Porte looks strong. Too strong. The Sky Tour team is going to smash this years race.

Contador is going to get killed.

Only hope if Dodge spills the beans to Riis. Gives him intel on the full *** program at Sky.

 

[mastersracer]

Riis must be shaking his head.

Porte looks strong. Too strong. The Sky Tour team is going to smash this years race.

Contador is going to get killed.

Only hope if Dodge spills the beans to Riis. Gives him intel on the full *** program at Sky.

Porte was 52 seconds SLOWER than Contador's 2009 climb. If anything Riis will be calculating how much time AC can gain on the climbs. Talansky produced 5.73 watts/kg for 35 minutes on the climb today.

The anti-Sky fanatics should at least take a deep breath to try to ward off the histrionics.

 

[thehog]

Porte was 52 seconds SLOWER than Contador's 2009 climb. If anything Riis will be calculating how much time AC can gain on the climbs. Talansky produced 5.73 watts/kg for 35 minutes on the climb today (his power file, not estimated).

The anti-Sky fanatics should at least take a deep breath to try to ward off the histrionics.

Headwind. 4 hours of driving rain.

Give it a rest.

You Skybots need to slow down and take one of Leinders injections.

Why are you trying so hard? What's your stake in Sky being clean? You don't defend any other team.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Porte was 52 seconds SLOWER than Contador's 2009 climb. If anything Riis will be calculating how much time AC can gain on the climbs. Talansky produced 5.73 watts/kg for 35 minutes on the climb today.

The anti-Sky fanatics should at least take a deep breath to try to ward off the histrionics.

You, Ed, are just too funny.

Porte 53 seconds down on conti, in pouring rain, cold conditions, bad for the muscles, says enough to people who actually ride bikes, 'racer'.

Sky apologist.

 

[Parrulo]

add in some head wind against the tail wind reported in 2009

 

[mastersracer]

add in some head wind against the tail wind reported in 2009

wrong. Combining the top 50 times of 2009 and 2013, 33 2013 riders vs. 17 2009 riders are in the top 50. Conditions were more favorable in 2013 for a fast ascent. Winds accounted for.

Contador's watts/kg in 2009 on the climb 6.19. Talansky 5.73.

 

[thehog]

wrong. Combining the top 50 times of 2009 and 2013, 33 2013 riders vs. 17 2009 riders are in the top 50. Conditions were more favorable in 2013 for a fast ascent. Winds accounted for.

Contador's watts/kg in 2009 on the climb 6.19. Talansky 5.73.

Huh?

What are you talking about?

Top 50 times?

Oh dear. You have officially been given Skybot of the month award.

 

[Netserk]

wrong. Combining the top 50 times of 2009 and 2013, 33 2013 riders vs. 17 2009 riders are in the top 50. Conditions were more favorable in 2013 for a fast ascent. Winds accounted for.

Contador's watts/kg in 2009 on the climb 6.19. Talansky 5.73.

So the peloton hasn't got cleaner, but dirtier?

And I thought 2009 was a bad year.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

wrong. Combining the top 50 times of 2009 and 2013, 33 2013 riders vs. 17 2009 riders are in the top 50. Conditions were more favorable in 2013 for a fast ascent. Winds accounted for.

Contador's watts/kg in 2009 on the climb 6.19. Talansky 5.73.

Grasping at straws is your hobby, we already knew. Do a course on math, please, Ed.

 

[Parrulo]

wrong. Combining the top 50 times of 2009 and 2013, 33 2013 riders vs. 17 2009 riders are in the top 50. Conditions were more favorable in 2013 for a fast ascent. Winds accounted for.

Contador's watts/kg in 2009 on the climb 6.19. Talansky 5.73.

wait, so from your sofa can tell what the wind was like better then the riders riding the ascent? impressive

 

[Parrulo]

wrong. Combining the top 50 times of 2009 and 2013, 33 2013 riders vs. 17 2009 riders are in the top 50. Conditions were more favorable in 2013 for a fast ascent. Winds accounted for.

Contador's watts/kg in 2009 on the climb 6.19. Talansky 5.73.

wait so from your sofa can tell what the wind was like better then the riders riding the ascent? impressive

 

[mastersracer]

These numbers are publicly posted already - wind estimates, time comparisons between 2009 and 2013 ascents, and Contador and Talansky power.

In simple terms, the power estimates for today's climb is not very notable. Talansky at 5.73 watts/kg for 35 minutes. JV has even retweeted this already. Contador 6.1.

 

[thehog]

These numbers are publicly posted already - wind estimates, time comparisons between 2009 and 2013 ascents, and Contador and Talansky power.

In simple terms, the power estimates for today's climb is not very notable. Talansky at 5.73 watts/kg for 35 minutes. JV has even retweeted this already. Contador 6.1.

Ok, I'm sold. If JV says its clean. It's clean

 

[The Chicken]

Seems to me the old “peloton à deux vitesses” (two speed peloton) has become a THREE speed peloton. In ascending order of speed we now have:

1) Clean riders
2) Dopers
3) Sky

I mean did you see the speed at which Porte went past known doper Menchov? Shocking.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

These numbers are publicly posted already - wind estimates, time comparisons between 2009 and 2013 ascents, and Contador and Talansky power.

In simple terms, the power estimates for today's climb is not very notable. Talansky at 5.73 watts/kg for 35 minutes. JV has even retweeted this already. Contador 6.1.

Where did you get the Contador w/kg?
And also - why are you repeating Talanskys numbers - he finished quite some distance down today. Why not estimate (&show how you got it) Portes numbers?

 

[mastersracer]

Ok, I'm sold. If JV says its clean. It's clean

Fact: conditions were more favorable for a faster ascent today than in 2009. See how many more top times are from today (let me know if I need to spell out the reasoning behind this for you).

Fact: Contador 6.19 watts/kg. Talansky: 5.73.

Fact: Contador faster than Porte and higher power output.

Fact: You said Riss would be scared by Porte. BUT Contador is faster and higher power.

Fact: You were wrong.

1. Alberto Contador ----- ESP | 33:52 | 2009
-2. Richie Porte ----------AUS | 34:44 | 2013
-3. Frank Schleck -------- LUX | 34:50 | 2009
-4. Luis Leon Sanchez ---- ESP | 34:50 | 2009
-5. Denis Menchov -------- RUS | 35:00 | 2013
-6. Andrew Talansky ------ USA | 35:17 | 2013
-7. Tejay van Garderen ----USA | 35:17 | 2013
-8. Diego Ulissi ----------ITA | 35:17 | 2013
-9. Lieuwe Westra -------- NED | 35:17 | 2013
10. Jean-Christophe Peraud FRA | 35:!7 | 2013

11. Nairo Quintana ------- COL | 35:17 | 2013
12. Simon Spilak ----------SLO | 35:17 | 2013
13. Michele Scarponi ----- ITA | 35:17 | 2013
14. Cadel Evans ---------- AUS | 35:19 | 2009
15. David Moncoutie ------ FRA | 35:19 | 2009
16. Jens Voigt ------------GER | 35:21 | 2009
17. Samuel Sanchez ------- ESP | 35:23 | 2009
18. Jonathan Hivert -------FRA | 35:26 | 2009
19. Jonathan Hivert -------FRA | 35:30 | 2013
20. Sylvain Chavanel ----- FRA | 35:30 | 2013

21. Andreas Klöden --------GER | 35:30 | 2013
22. Peter Velits --------- SVK | 35:33 | 2013
23. Nicolas Roche -------- IRL | 35:33 | 2013
24. Daniel Navarro-------- ESP | 35:33 | 2013
25. Alberto Losada --------ESP | 35:33 | 2013
26. Chris Anker Sörensen - DEN | 35:38 | 2009
27. Sandy Casar ---------- FRA | 35:38 | 2009
28. Kevin Seeldrayers -----BEL | 35:42 | 2009
29. Sylvain Chavanel ------FRA | 35:42 | 2009
30. Andrei Grivko -------- UKR | 35:46 | 2013

 

[thehog]

Are you trying to convince me? or yourself?

You do go on.

 

[the sceptic]

I like the argument that Richie Porte only beating 3 out of 4 dopers is somehow supposed to make him look clean.