Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[mattghg]

Skys website puts it at 69Kg, just another similarity to Armstrong I guess...

What's the similarity?

 

[Franklin]

BTW, I'm glad I actually read the report on what Brailsford said, rather than just rely on how it was reported in this thread.

All the comparisons to Bruyneel and Lance ... did they make a habit of saying things like

[Snip] leinders [/Snip]

?

Fantastic words. Except the tiny detail that he isn't answering any of the questions at all. And these questions have been here for nine months. I don't think he will ever answer them beyond "That's a very good question!" "Next question please?".

 

[SundayRider]

What's the similarity?

That his weight couldn't really be pinned down at all. The weight loss thing actually proved to be a bit of myth.

 

[Franklin]

What's the similarity?

I have to laugh that you have to ask about the tactics of mr Armstrong yet are so ready to take up the shield for Wiggins. Perhaps you should actually look into the subject a bit more?

But the answer: Lance was notoriously shifty about his weight (and dimensions).

 

[Catwhoorg]

Funny how Sky hasn't posted a single thing since last year's Giro on their Training Peaks page.

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/races/team-sky-races.aspx


But Froome has posted PM analysis on his website...ridiculous numbers...

http://www.chris-froome.com/news/7-froome-trainingpeaks-analysis

Not on that page but Bernie Eisels TP files are available
http://www.teamsky.com/performance/0,29255,,00.html

As are Sivstovs precrash. His were planned for the whole tour, which would have been fascinating as he was planned to be part of the Skytrain on the mountain stages.

 

[mastersracer]

Just keep ignoring Wiggins own words.

there are about 1000 posts in the power/climbing stages on this. I've been citing recent estimates from P-N and T-A that indicate sub-6 watt winning outputs. FGL said they were BS because they don't fit the narrative that Sky is taking some super secret EPO drug that makes them produce superhuman power outputs. Turns out FGL was citing the same source for the data he produced (which isn't very meaningful since it is average power over a Tour, which has the confound of different routes etc).

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

hilarious: your source for this data is the same one who calculated 5.9 watts/kg for Froome you dismissed a few posts ago. Oops. Average power for the entire Tour climbs or whatever isn't very revealing.

What is hilarious is that you do not seem to be able to read statistics, what a surprise, Eddy.

Wouldnt it be a surprise if dopey Ricco was riding uphill at 6.05w/k? Maybe even 5.99w/k? That would mean he would not have been doping according to you, he? He would according to you be within human limits?

Grazie.

 

[thehog]

What is hilarious is that you do not seem to be able to read statistics, what a surprise, Eddy.

Wouldnt it be a surprise if dopey Ricco was riding uphill at 6.05w/k? Maybe even 5.99w/k? That would mean he would not have been doping according to you, he? He would according to you be within human limits?

Grazie.

Those guys finishing 23rd on mountain stages in 2003 weren't doping either. They were within human limits.

Only Lance doped. Ullrich a well. And Pantani.

That's it. No one else doped.

Human limits.

Human limits. The new marginal gains.

 

[the sceptic]

Those guys finishing 23rd on mountain stages in 2003 weren't doping either. They were within human limits.

Only Lance doped. Ullrich a well. And Pantani.

That's it. No one else doped.

Human limits.

Human limits. The new marginal gains.

Didnt Lance have some tours where he stayed below human limit? must have been clean then. Too bad he forgot to tell Oprah

 

[SundayRider]

there are about 1000 posts in the power/climbing stages on this. I've been citing recent estimates from P-N and T-A that indicate sub-6 watt winning outputs. FGL said they were BS because they don't fit the narrative that Sky is taking some super secret EPO drug that makes them produce superhuman power outputs. Turns out FGL was citing the same source for the data he produced (which isn't very meaningful since it is average power over a Tour, which has the confound of different routes etc).

Your ignoring what is right in front of you! Wiggins has give his own power output and even if you take an average of his highest/lowest stated Tour weights he is way above 6 watts/kilo. He is much closer to 6.5.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I don't know who is or isn't doping, but I'm pretty certain if there is any going on it is marginal. (yes, I chose that word deliberately, no pun intended)

Marginal doping is still stealing not only a life's work from a clean and honest rider but money is stolen too. That's okay?

How do you imagine this working inside Team Sky? It's a serious question.

 

[DirtyWorks]

Your ignoring what is right in front of you! Wiggins has give his own power output and even if you take an average of his highest/lowest stated Tour weights he is way above 6 watts/kilo. He is much closer to 6.5.

shhhhh.... That's not the point. The point is to pretend it's real. Why? I have no idea. Don't ruin the fantasy you bone idle w@nker.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Those guys finishing 23rd on mountain stages in 2003 weren't doping either. They were within human limits.

Only Lance doped. Ullrich a well. And Pantani.

That's it. No one else doped.

Human limits.

Human limits. The new marginal gains.

I am beginning to believe more and more that you aviator [Sastre if my eyes do not f with me] was the real deal.

Evans too.

 

[mastersracer]

What is hilarious is that you do not seem to be able to read statistics, what a surprise, Eddy.

Wouldnt it be a surprise if dopey Ricco was riding uphill at 6.05w/k? Maybe even 5.99w/k? That would mean he would not have been doping according to you, he? He would according to you be within human limits?

Grazie.

I can read it perfectly well; it's the average watts/kg of La Planche des Belles Filles, La Toussuire, Col de Peyresourde, and Col de Peyresourde in the 2012 Tour. Wiggins was at 5.98 watts/kg, so what, considering the route.

It is also around Froome's power output for his stage winning performance in T-A.

Same source.

 

[lavieclaire]

Marginal doping is still stealing not only a life's work from a clean and honest rider but money is stolen too.

I agree

That's okay?

I don't think it is. Do you?

How do you imagine this working inside Team Sky? It's a serious question.

How do I 'imagine'? I'd imagine it would work in exactly the same way as every other team.

Only it hasn't been that successful. From a team with double the resources of most other teams, three years and only one GT (and a tiny handful of minor rides)

Not exactly USPS are they.

 

[Escarabajo]

I can read it perfectly well; it's the average watts/kg of La Planche des Belles Filles, La Toussuire, Col de Peyresourde, and Col de Peyresourde in the 2012 Tour. Wiggins was at 5.98 watts/kg, so what, considering the route.

It is also around Froome's power output for his stage winning performance in T-A.

Same source.

Estimating and measuring the watts/kg on the races now reminds me of the limit they had for hematocrit % back in the 90's. Just because you are below 50% does not mean that you are not doping. But the average should be 43% and not 49.99%. After they put the limit in 1997 a lot of the riders showed up with 49% LOL.

So now instead of having a select few (like in the 80's, maybe 2, 3 or maybe 4 at the most) riding at or below 6 watts/kg we have 4 or 5 from one team only doing it.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Estimating and measuring the watts/kg on the races now reminds me of the limit they had for hematocrit % back in the 90's. Just because you are below 50% does not mean that you are not doping. But the average should be 43% and not 49.99%. After they put the limit in 1997 a lot of the riders showed up with 49% LOL.

So now instead of having a select few (like in the 80's, maybe 2, 3 or maybe 4 at the most) riding at or below 6 watts/kg we have 4 or 5 from one team only doing it.

Welcome to the new Holy Grail Esca 5.9/6w/k and you are clean...

Note U, LeMond was at 5.9w/k at Luz Ardiden in 1990, if u remember that, that was toooootal power, with a nosebreathing Indurain in his wheel of course...

Not even going to dignify masters with an answer,

 

[BYOP88]

Was Brailsford the head of track, when Hayles(not sure if it was him, but pretty sure it happened in the era of clean cycling(2006)) joined the over 50 club?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Was Brailsford the head of track, when Hayles(not sure if it was him, but pretty sure it happened in the era of clean cycling(2006)) joined the over 50 club?

Dave Brailsford asked him twice face to face and once again on the phone. "Look, if you've been doing anything I need to know. If you have, just admit it and it'll all be over quickly. If you try to lie your way out of it and you get caught, people will hate you for ever."

Brailsford was there when Hayles rang his wife, Vicky, to tell her the news. He saw the tears and shock on Hayles' face.

cry smiley would be nice by now

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news/latest/347356/blog-andy-jones.html

 

[Moose McKnuckles]

Dave Brailsford asked him twice face to face and once again on the phone. "Look, if you've been doing anything I need to know.

Ah, reminds me of that time Johan Bruyneel "looked Basso in the eye" and just knew he was clean.

 

[Tyler'sTwin]

Who believes Wiggins weighs 69 kg while Froome weighs 70 kg?

The most reliable power and weight data we have from a top cyclist is probably from Jani.

He averaged 358 W for 54 minutes in the 1st ITT of the 2012 TdF.

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/races/tour-de-france/2012/stage-9.aspx#.URQgovJZPJd

His stated weight in this lab test with San Millán from may 2012 is 60.5kg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHDT7GAMigU

 

[The Hitch]

The Brailsford interview was a car crash!

Because I didn't dope the track team I can't have doped my road team.

He needs to remember that the general public aren't as thick as the dumb corporate acolytes that he is surrounded by these days.

.

Ughh. Yes they are.

 

[Wallace and Gromit]

So now instead of having a select few (like in the 80's, maybe 2, 3 or maybe 4 at the most) riding at or below 6 watts/kg we have 4 or 5 from one team only doing it.

Which team's that then? There were only ever two of the Sky guys at those sorts of power outputs at the sharp end of the Tour stages last year.

I agree that the sheer number of just "believable" performances amongst the main contenders is very suspicious (or even "unbelievable") but there's no need to highlight performance levels that aren't actually happening

 

[thehog]

I am beginning to believe more and more that you aviator [Sastre if my eyes do not f with me] was the real deal.

Evans too.

Nah! Just levels of doping.

Systematic will always beat one off doping. When you have an entire team doping it trumps one man doping.

This human level stuff is stupid.

95% of the peloton from 1996 to 2006 were doping. Do you think the guy pushing 5.5-6.0w/pg and coming 12th wasn’t doping?

The 50% limit brought down power levels as has the passport. But it hasn’t stopped doping. The program is modified to fit. Exhibit A – microdosing.

Lance was rabbiting on with the same stuff back in the 2000’s. It’s clear Sky are 5%-10% faster the rest of the peloton. And that doesn’t come from “Training harder”. Not possible.

If Sky are clean and doing so in “human limits” then believe me they’d be releasing data all over the place. They suggest that if you release passport information then there can be too many “misinterpretations” but also complain about too much “innuendo” by not releasing such information.

Seriously, if clean, they’d be shouting from the rooftops and sharing a lot of data. They have the biggest PR budget in the Pro-circuit and they can’t afford to present these numbers?

Go watch Porte attack again on Saturday. Who does it remind you of…. It’s the same story. Its Lance. He’d do the same thing. Sometimes a little further out. But he had an extremely solid kick which no other rider could sustain.

His TT was similar to Lance in 2005 stage 1. When he caught Ullrich he slowed. Porte did the same.

Your eyes don’t deceive you. Only your ears.

 

[rhubroma]

Back in the good ol'days. Other than Sky!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3EHJjHP6yc