Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Miburo]

Ughh. Yes they are.

Is it that bad in the UK?

His interview was just ***. Wtf are these journalists doing? No one calls him out on it it seems.

Well we know what the british press will do in july.

If Contador wins it's because he doped and sky was clean and no clean rider can surpass what Sky is doing.

If Froome wins it's because cycling is clean.

It makes me wonder. If no clean rider can attack Sky, well doesn't that say something about Sky? Or do they've the most natural talents with the best materials ever now?

Porte is pure talent, Wiggins was always going to win a GT and Froome was a gift from god. He can even climb sideways. Should do the trick in the UK i guess

 

[The Hitch]

Fantastic words. Except the tiny detail that he isn't answering any of the questions at all. And these questions have been here for nine months. I don't think he will ever answer them beyond "That's a very good question!" "Next question please?".

presidential candidate: that question on whether my campaign took bribes is a great question. My campaign manager was wrong not to answer the question. It's a very valid question and he shouldn't have dismissed it.

Next question.

 

[SundayRider]

Who believes Wiggins weighs 69 kg while Froome weighs 70 kg?

The most reliable power and weight data we have from a top cyclist is probably from Jani.

He averaged 358 W for 54 minutes in the 1st ITT of the 2012 TdF.

http://home.trainingpeaks.com/races/tour-de-france/2012/stage-9.aspx#.URQgovJZPJd

His stated weight in this lab test with San Millán from may 2012 is 60.5kg.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHDT7GAMigU

5.9 watts and 15th place 2.30 down on BW.

 

[horsinabout]

That Cav pic is awsome the funniest gadam thing.....start a new thread with this "Cav's Head" because there are doubters about, wanting proof.

Proof,

What about ....

prolific winner of stages, without an off day.

Wins even when his tactics are muffed up

Doesn't win when the peleton gangs up on him.

 

[mastersracer]

I am beginning to believe more and more that you aviator [Sastre if my eyes do not f with me] was the real deal.

Evans too.

Carlos Sastre 2008 Tour Alpe d'huez (ESP / CSC) | 39:32, 20.94 Kph, VAM 1698 m/h, 6.04 W/kg

Wiggins only went over 6 watts/kg once in the 2012 Tour climb - it was on a 16 minute climb. For climbs lasting around 40 minutes he was at 5.6 watts/kg.

 

[mastersracer]

5.9 watts and 15th place 2.30 down on BW.

It's good to read the article you linked. States his ftp is 5.6 watts/kg.

 

[SundayRider]

Carlos Sastre 2008 Tour Alpe d'huez (ESP / CSC) | 39:32, 20.94 Kph, VAM 1698 m/h, 6.04 W/kg

Wiggins only went over 6 watts/kg once in the 2012 Tour climb - it was on a 16 minute climb. For climbs lasting around 40 minutes he was at 5.6 watts/kg.

You don't know what you are talking about. Wiggins has been quoted as saying 'we were riding at 450 watts - Rogers (as road captain) says let them go no one can attack off that' for BW to be riding 5.6 w/Kg he would need to weigh 80 kilos.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Nah! Just levels of doping.

Agreed. To me they are the most believable winners of the Tour the last 22 years. They stayed within the limits...

And, not to forget, sir dopealot/lancelot did go after Sastre, came out of rehab after Sastre, could be a sign.

These two and Moncoutie, and some others have always looked sortof clean to me. We just do not know.

Carlos Sastre 2008 Tour Alpe d'huez (ESP / CSC) | 39:32, 20.94 Kph, VAM 1698 m/h, 6.04 W/kg

Wiggins only went over 6 watts/kg once in the 2012 Tour climb - it was on a 16 minute climb. For climbs lasting around 40 minutes he was at 5.6 watts/kg.

So, now your boy Wiggo is capable of what Sastre is doing for ten years long? Without spikes? Troll.

 

[mastersracer]

You don't know what you are talking about. Wiggins has been quoted as saying 'we were riding at 450 watts - Rogers (as road captain) says let them go no one can attack off that' for BW to be riding 5.6 w/Kg he would need to weigh 80 kilos.

La Planche des Belles Filles, 7. etappi | VAM 1850 m/h, 6,48 W/kg [16 minutes]
La Toussuire, 11. etappi | VAM 1461 m/h, 5,60 W/kg
Col de Peyresourde, 16. etappi | VAM 1611 m/h, 5,99 W/kg
Col de Peyresourde, 17. etappi | VAM 1599 m/h, 5,85 W/kg


The nearly 1-hour TT is a good indication of Brajkovic's Functional Threshold Power (FTP) of 358w (5.6 w/kg). FTP represents a rider's maximum sustainable power output for a 1-hour maximum effort. [link provided]

FGL, argue the numbers, not facile ad hominen remarks.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

Agreed. To me they are the most believable winners of the Tour the last 22 years. They stayed within the limits...

And, not to forget, sir dopealot/lancelot did go after Sastre, came out of rehab after Sastre, could be a sign.

These two and Moncoutie, and some others have always looked sortof clean to me. We just do not know.So, now your boy Wiggo is capable of what Sastre is doing for ten years long? Without spikes? Troll.

Sorry, don't believe any of them are clean. Sastre's TT was simply way to good in the 3rd week of a tour for such a climber.

Evans? Meh. Doped in 2011. Clean in 2012.

Just my opinion.

 

[thehog]

Agreed. To me they are the most believable winners of the Tour the last 22 years. They stayed within the limits...

And, not to forget, sir dopealot/lancelot did go after Sastre, came out of rehab after Sastre, could be a sign.

These two and Moncoutie, and some others have always looked sortof clean to me. We just do not know.So, now your boy Wiggo is capable of what Sastre is doing for ten years long? Without spikes? Troll.

Doping is numbers. Tyler explained all this. Doping and full *** is not really an option these days.

When you work with Ferrari, Leinders, Kerrison or whomever you can pick your number and hit it.

The doping is tailored for that number.

Festina was the first proper team-wide “in-house” program. It was extremely successful. Festina were smashing everyone in 98.

Banesto were much the same but my feeling only 3-4 of them were on the Ferrari program and not sure who involved the team was as a whole.

USPS took the model to the next level. T-Mobile were not as organized team-wise butall doping.

But it all comes down to numbers. They know what they have to hit to dope, be faster than the competition and win (and say its human).

Its not hard to do. Just not very fulfilling.


(What you will see next is the return of the Fuentes “freelance” model. Individuals not able to keep up or get results resort to Doctors for that special one on one “lift” – non-team-sanctioned.)

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Doping is numbers.

Twelve years ago it was 7w/k, now it is 6w/k.

I am glad to have withnessed the 5.8w/k generation.

La Planche des Belles Filles, 7. etappi | VAM 1850 m/h, 6,48 W/kg [16 minutes]
La Toussuire, 11. etappi | VAM 1461 m/h, 5,60 W/kg
Col de Peyresourde, 16. etappi | VAM 1611 m/h, 5,99 W/kg
Col de Peyresourde, 17. etappi | VAM 1599 m/h, 5,85 W/kg


The nearly 1-hour TT is a good indication of Brajkovic's Functional Threshold Power (FTP) of 358w (5.6 w/kg). FTP represents a rider's maximum sustainable power output for a 1-hour maximum effort. [link provided]

FGL, argue the numbers, not facile ad hominen remarks.

I will stay polite but you really have zero knowledge on statistics/race influence. Ever saw the numbers of Indurain 1991/1992? His w/k were far down on LeMonds. Why? Maybe because InduEPO crushed everyone in the TT before the mountains?

But, we know this already since your postings on Froome's 'failure' in Tirreno. Back to the drawing board.

 

[mastersracer]

Doping is numbers. Tyler explained all this. Doping and full *** is not really an option these days.

When you work with Ferrari, Leinders, Kerrison or whomever you can pick your number and hit it.

The doping is tailored for that number.

Festina was the first proper team-wide “in-house” program. It was extremely successful. Festina were smashing everyone in 98.

Banesto were much the same but my feeling only 3-4 of them were on the Ferrari program and not sure who involved the team was as a whole.

USPS took the model to the next level. T-Mobile were not as organized team-wise butall doping.

But it all comes down to numbers. They know what they have to hit to dope, be faster than the competition and win (and say its human).

Its not hard to do. Just not very fulfilling.


(What you will see next is the return of the Fuentes “freelance” model. Individuals not able to keep up or get results resort to Doctors for that special one on one “lift” – non-team-sanctioned.)

So many words yet so little said. Nabili has 0 chance. Froome will win by 5+ minutes. Numbers that can also be reached without doping. Numbers that we saw pre-EPO. Of course, riders then were so much more talented than today. Genetic decline, I suppose. I'm sure you have a platitude for that as well.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

So many words yet so little said. Nabili has 0 chance. Froome will win by 5+ minutes. Numbers that can also be reached without doping. Numbers that we saw pre-EPO. Of course, riders then were so much more talented than today. Genetic decline, I suppose. I'm sure you have a platitude for that as well.

No, just bilharzia and British Brailsfraud.

 

[SundayRider]

Masters Racer - read Wiggins book and other interviews. He actually states his power and weight and do the maths yourself.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Little did you know you were improving your 3000m time by 15% each time you warmed down.

Marginal gains 1998 style!

The Pro's only leant to warm down in the last 18 months.

It's a new concept. Other teams were laughing at Sky. Now they're all doing it.

Are they? Really?

Yes, but you'd be amazed at how few riders do. I'd say maybe 10% of the peloton cools down, while the rest just jump on the bus straight after the sprint. Cycling sometimes is so backwards it amazes me.

 

[lavieclaire]

Kinda funny that.

Also wasn't it mr hog who was saying Froome would win everything etc etc etc, and then Froome totally blew T-A.

So Froome is this mega mega doper trouncing the rest of the (clean) peloton but....err..he hasn't actually won much yet.

 

[thehog]

So many words yet so little said. Nabili has 0 chance. Froome will win by 5+ minutes. Numbers that can also be reached without doping. Numbers that we saw pre-EPO. Of course, riders then were so much more talented than today. Genetic decline, I suppose. I'm sure you have a platitude for that as well.

Like you telling us Froome gained time on the decent! LOL!

and its Nibali not Nabili.

And he has no chance. If Nibs rides the Tour. GONE.

 

[thehog]

Kinda funny that.

Also wasn't it mr hog who was saying Froome would win everything etc etc etc, and then Froome totally blew T-A.

So Froome is this mega mega doper trouncing the rest of the (clean) peloton but....err..he hasn't actually won much yet.

Hey junior! Sounds like you've been here before

He got 2nd? Blew? He cant decend. Can't ride in rain.

At least he's not going sideways anymore.

 

[JRTinMA]

I think we can put this whole Sky is dirty thing to bed.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2013...railsford-insists-his-team-rides-clean_277766

Sky boss Dave Brailsford insists his team rides clean
By VeloNews.comPublished 2 hours ago
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Sky riders often find themselves at the front of the peloton, but team principal Dave Brailsford denies members of his team are doping. Photo: Graham Watson | http://www.grahamwatson.coma
London (AFP) — Team Sky principal Dave Brailsford has hit out over insinuations that his team’s stunning successes in recent years have been built on immoral foundations.

Sky’s Bradley Wiggins vehemently defended himself against doping allegations during his victory in last year’s Tour de France.

Brailsford, meanwhile, has admitted to having made mistakes, particularly concerning the recruitment of Belgian doctor Geert Leinders, who was working with Rabobank when two of their riders were suspended for drug use.

 

[horsinabout]

Nah! Just levels of doping.

Systematic will always beat one off doping. When you have an entire team doping it trumps one man doping.

This human level stuff is stupid.

95% of the peloton from 1996 to 2006 were doping. Do you think the guy pushing 5.5-6.0w/pg and coming 12th wasn’t doping?

The 50% limit brought down power levels as has the passport. But it hasn’t stopped doping. The program is modified to fit. Exhibit A – microdosing.

Lance was rabbiting on with the same stuff back in the 2000’s. It’s clear Sky are 5%-10% faster the rest of the peloton. And that doesn’t come from “Training harder”. Not possible.

If Sky are clean and doing so in “human limits” then believe me they’d be releasing data all over the place. They suggest that if you release passport information then there can be too many “misinterpretations” but also complain about too much “innuendo” by not releasing such information.

Seriously, if clean, they’d be shouting from the rooftops and sharing a lot of data. They have the biggest PR budget in the Pro-circuit and they can’t afford to present these numbers?

Go watch Porte attack again on Saturday. Who does it remind you of…. It’s the same story. Its Lance. He’d do the same thing. Sometimes a little further out. But he had an extremely solid kick which no other rider could sustain.

His TT was similar to Lance in 2005 stage 1. When he caught Ullrich he slowed. Porte did the same.

Your eyes don’t deceive you. Only your ears.

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-hits-back-at-accusations-and-criticism-of-team-sky

It appears that Mr Brailsford is getting rattled by social media forums. And in this artical doesn't in plain English actually deny doping, just the usually rhetoric.

 

[Parrulo]

Are they? Really?

so fast bringing that from another thread yet no comments on froome never being to a wind tunnel . . .

 

[lavieclaire]

Hey junior! Sounds like you've been here before

What?

He cant decend. Can't ride in rain.

At least he's not going sideways anymore.

Oh right. Is that what it is. Um..yeah..Right. Of course

 

[JimmyFingers]

so fast bringing that from another thread yet no comments on froome never being to a wind tunnel . . .

I think you need to make a point here, because my reference was to the constant sarcasm directed at Sky for citing warm downs as one of their marginal gains, because 'professions' all warm down, cyclists have done it for years and even kiddiewinks at school doing it, yet here is JV saying a mere 10% of the peloton does.

Unless you're looking for some misdirection to detract from this, which flies in the face of oft-employed anti-Sky mantra here.

 

[thehog]

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brailsford-hits-back-at-accusations-and-criticism-of-team-sky

It appears that Mr Brailsford is getting rattled by social media forums. And in this artical doesn't in plain English actually deny doping, just the usually rhetoric.

On these types of forums back in the day, you’d have 50 Lance fans against 4 Lance is a doper guys. Now here you got 20 Sky are dopers, 10 on the fencers and Jimmy and Masterracer. No one believes their BS on being clean. Other forums are much more friendly to Sky but they’re just love fests.

Brailsfords getting annoyed but he knows social media is a groundswell. It builds. People starting reading stuff. They become educated. The learn things for themselves. He’s going to have to release something soon to show they are clean. Walsh articles won’t cut it.

He can already see CyclingNews are asking questions. They are planting seeds.

Sky are doping. So hard to go back after you start… on the track you can contain it. Road racing you’ve got to transport the stuff. Much more chance of getting caught.