Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[the sceptic]

Masteracers groundbreaking thesis on internet forums "they exist so that people can argue with each other, and people like to argue with people they disagree with"

Im expecting a nobel prize for that.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Similarly, your academic claims involving 'data' and 'informal research' on internet forum behaviour are pretty hard to swallow when we've many years of experience of seeing characters make claims like that and turn out to just be regular old posters who've backed themselves into a corner.

Dont you think this is a bit ad hominem?

This is almost a deja vu with Krebs and his 'Wiggins showed climbing skills in l'Avenir'.

 

[JRanton]

''So now it's with one guy, with one leader. ... I'm sure G can follow Peter Sagan and Fabian Cancellara," Knaven said.

Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...-in-tour-of-flanders.html#UB1h0GpwAb324kwf.99

We shall see...

 

[thehog]

''So now it's with one guy, with one leader. ... I'm sure G can follow Peter Sagan and Fabian Cancellara," Knaven said.

Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...-in-tour-of-flanders.html#UB1h0GpwAb324kwf.99

We shall see...

The numbers add up. So should win. Flanders has nothing to so with tactics. Just numbers.

Looking forward to Sky ripping Flanders apart. Be good for the sport.

Will prove that training is harder than racing.

 

[Miburo]

''So now it's with one guy, with one leader. ... I'm sure G can follow Peter Sagan and Fabian Cancellara," Knaven said.

Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...-in-tour-of-flanders.html#UB1h0GpwAb324kwf.99

We shall see...

Of course he can.

 

[gooner]

''So now it's with one guy, with one leader. ... I'm sure G can follow Peter Sagan and Fabian Cancellara," Knaven said.

Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/news...-in-tour-of-flanders.html#UB1h0GpwAb324kwf.99

We shall see...

Don't really see the big deal in that. Don't forget he showed his potential from early on in 2010 when he came 2nd in the cobbled Tour stage in the lead group containing Cancellara. He finished 10th in the Ronde 2011 less than 10 secs behind the front 3 of Nuyens, Cancellara and Chavanel. And just recently he was in the Sagan group's coming into the last km at E3. I agree with Knaven he can follow but to win near the end is another thing. Put it this way, if he finishes in the top 5 or 3rd behind Cancellara or Sagan I don't think there should be anything of the same sort of reaction we see when Froome performs. It's not as if he is coming out of nowhere where no one is discussing his chances before the race.

 

[JRanton]

Don't really see the big deal in that. Don't forget he showed his potential from early on in 2010 when he came 2nd in the cobbled Tour stage in the lead group containing Cancellara. He finished 10th in the Ronde 2011 less than 10 secs behind the front 3 of Nuyens, Cancellara and Chavanel. And just recently he was in the Sagan group's coming into the last km at E3. I agree with Knaven he can follow but to win near the end is another thing. Put it this way, if he finishes in the top 5 or 3rd behind Cancellara or Sagan I don't think there should be anything of the same sort of reaction we see when Froome performs. It's not as if he is coming out of nowhere where no one is discussing his chances before the race.

And when he morphs into 2012 Mick Rogers at the Tour, what will you say then?

Remember Thomas was a ''6'' on the suspicion index.

 

[roundabout]

I'll be blunt. I haven't seen anything that suggests that he can follow.

Oh wait, he rides for Sky and had a good day in 2011. Him following Cancellara on the Kwaremont would still be ridiculous.

 

[northstar]

1. Because I believe Sky is actually not doping. I think their account is plausible.
2. I am interested in the psychology of Sky detractors and I'm doing informal research on Dan Sperber's argumentative theory of reasoning in online forums.

If you are really conducting informal research on the forum why would you acknowledge it? Is your research finished now? What if I do not want to be part of your research? Is that not against the terms and conditions of the site?

 

[thehog]

I'll be blunt. I haven't seen anything that suggests that he can follow.

Oh wait, he rides for Sky and had a good day in 2011. Him following Cancellara on the Kwaremont would still be ridiculous.

Takes some riders years of riding Classics, cobbles and in kermises to learn how to win a race like Flanders.

Apparently G can hang out in Tenerife, not race and will be good enough. That would seriously define new levels of doping. I think even the Dawg would blush.

 

[Franklin]

1. Because I believe Sky is actually not doping. I think their account is plausible.

Our great scientist and his belief

2. I am interested in the psychology of Sky detractors and I'm doing informal research on Dan Sperber's argumentative theory of reasoning in online forums.

Congratulations!

You made sure either you are permanently banned or I will never post here again.

I know you are absolutely not legit (see the terrible handling of basic facts), but in the off chance you are indeed an idiot who thinks it's okay to do research like this I now put down a complaint.

If they don't ban you I'll never be back on this forum again

 

[The Hitch]

Don't really see the big deal in that. Don't forget he showed his potential from early on in 2010 when he came 2nd in the cobbled Tour stage in the lead group containing Cancellara. He finished 10th in the Ronde 2011 less than 10 secs behind the front 3 of Nuyens, Cancellara and Chavanel. And just recently he was in the Sagan group's coming into the last km at E3. I agree with Knaven he can follow but to win near the end is another thing. Put it this way, if he finishes in the top 5 or 3rd behind Cancellara or Sagan I don't think there should be anything of the same sort of reaction we see when Froome performs. It's not as if he is coming out of nowhere where no one is discussing his chances before the race.

I dont expect Thomas to follow Canc and Sagan. and yes he is a talent who could make a select group.

But Cancellara is probably the 2nd best cyclist of the last decade, the 2nd most accomplished cobbled rider of the last decade, and on his day the best cyclist in the world.

+ hes almost certainly a doper(with loads of links to dopers)

And Sagan is the talent of the century.

If Thomas did manage to stick with Cancellara i think this thread would surpass Tour de France mountain stage posting levels.

Like I said though, its not gonna happen.

 

[Netserk]

I dont expect Thomas to follow Canc and Sagan. and yes he is a talent who could make a select group.

But Cancellara is probably the 2nd best cyclist of the last decade, the 2nd most accomplished cobbled rider of the last decade, and on his day the best cyclist in the world.

+ hes almost certainly a doper(with loads of links to dopers)

And Sagan is the talent of the century.

If Thomas did manage to stick with Cancellara i think this thread would surpass Tour de France mountain stage posting levels.

Like I said though, its not gonna happen.

Better than Bettini, Boonen, Valverde, Contador and Freire? (Or at least four of them)

 

[gooner]

And when he morphs into 2012 Mick Rogers at the Tour, what will you say then?

Remember Thomas was a ''6'' on the suspicion index.

You are questioning him for performances he hasn't even done? Ridiculous.

I'll be blunt. I haven't seen anything that suggests that he can follow.

Oh wait, he rides for Sky and had a good day in 2011. Him following Cancellara on the Kwaremont would still be ridiculous.

I will clear up my point here. My point is if there is a small group of 6 or 7 riders coming off the Kwaremont would you be surprised if Thomas was in it? That's what I mean by following. I don't think that racing scenario is out of the question on Sunday. There is nothing ridiculous about that. Just for the record I don't think he will win but it's not absurd either for me to say he can top 5 in his current form. It's not like he hasn't done that already at Omloop and E3 this year.

Takes some riders years of riding Classics, cobbles and in kermises to learn how to win a race like Flanders.

Apparently G can hang out in Tenerife, not race and will be good enough. That would seriously define new levels of doping. I think even the Dawg would blush.

Who has said Thomas can win? I have yet to hear anyone say that. As for not racing enough, its not like he has done the TDU and Qatar before tackling Omloop, E3, and DVV. No racing though.

 

[The Hitch]

You are questioning him for performances he hasn't even done? Ridiculous.



I will clear up my point here. My point is if there is a small group of 6 or 7 riders coming off the Kwaremont would you be surprised if Thomas was in it? That's what I mean by following. I don't think that racing scenario is out of the question on Sunday. There is nothing ridiculous about that. Just for the record I don't think he will win but it's not absurd either for me to say he can top 5 in his current form. It's not like he hasn't done that already at Omloop and E3 this year.



Who has said Thomas can win? I have yet to hear anyone say that. As for not racing enough, its not like he has done the TDU and Qatar before tackling Omloop, E3, and DVV. No racing though.

I dont think people are talking about if Thomas sticks with a select group and comes top 5, they are talking about if he was the only one able to follow Cancellara and Sagan.

Ignore the hog, he is just here to troll.

Anyway even if he comes 10th Thomas is still suspicious (just not froomeesque) on account of having been a major Armstrong fanboy who's response to hearing that USADA was going after him was - ffs leave him alone. Not what I expect to hear from a clean rider who wants to truimph over dopers.

 

[mastersracer]

Our great scientist and his belief




Congratulations!

You made sure either you are permanently banned or I will never post here again.

I know you are absolutely not legit (see the terrible handling of basic facts), but in the off chance you are indeed an idiot who thinks it's okay to do research like this I now put down a complaint.

If they don't ban you I'll never be back on this forum again

I said informal - I personally find it of interest how people argue about Sky. There's no rule against what may personally motivate someone to engage in a forum. I am not conducting formal research. I'm also a cycling fan and am the view that Sky isn't doping. Indeed, as I have said, I wouldn't be shocked if they were, recognize that it is a belief that is likely contaminated by many biases, and engage in discussion without hurling personal insults. I've never called anyone an idiot, as you just did. If you don't want your own view to be questioned by others, then stating them on a forum isn't a very good strategy.

 

[The Hitch]

Better than Bettini, Boonen, Valverde, Contador and Freire? (Or at least four of them)

You are right, we are not quite far enough into the tens. Need to wait a couple more years before Cancellaras palmares over the last decade matches up with the above (apart from Freire and maybe Boonen).

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

I would be dissappointed if Thomas and the buffalo [Stannard] would not be able to top ten coming sunday. They have talent. Lets hope for them KamikazeKirienka is not riding.

I said informal - I personally find it of interest how people argue about Sky. There's no rule against what may personally motivate someone to engage in a forum. I am not conducting formal research. I'm also a cycling fan and am the view that Sky isn't doping. Indeed, as I have said, I wouldn't be shocked if they were, recognize that it is a belief that is likely contaminated by many biases, and engage in discussion without hurling personal insults. I've never called anyone an idiot, as you just did. If you don't want your own view to be questioned by others, then stating them on a forum isn't a very good strategy.

Come of it, you are debunked day after day and now you are doing 'research' on interaction on an internetforum?

Keep spinning those wheels racer

 

[The Hitch]

without hurling personal insults. I've never called anyone an idiot, as you just did.

Calling people conspiracy theorists isnt an insult?

Telling people (as Ls explained) that they are bitter, hatefilled and incapable of rational thought, isnt an insult?

 

[mastersracer]

Calling people conspiracy theorists isnt an insult?

Telling people (as Ls explained) that they are bitter, hatefilled and incapable of rational thought, isnt an insult?

You should look up the meaning of 'conspiracy theory' because the view put forward by many people amounts to a conspiracy theory: Sky's success is due to the covert coordination of Sky's management, doctors with access to secret drugs, the involvement of the UCI and anti-doping officials, Sky's media control (e.g, David Walsh is now complicit, Sky controls media outlets) for the purposes of generating revenue in the UK market. All these elements are purported here.

Wkipedia quotes on meaning of conspiracy theory: "A conspiracy theory purports to explain an important social, political, or economic event as being caused or covered up by a covert group or organization."

"a conspiracy theory is a belief which explains an event as the result of a secret plot by exceptionally powerful and cunning conspirators to achieve a malevolent end."

 

[hrotha]

Wkipedia quotes on meaning of conspiracy theory: "A conspiracy theory purports to explain an important social, political, or economic event as being caused or covered up by a covert group or organization."

"a conspiracy theory is a belief which explains an event as the result of a secret plot by exceptionally powerful and cunning conspirators to achieve a malevolent end."

None of this applies. There's nothing exceptional about what this cover-up would involve, seeing as how the exact same thing is well documented to have already happened in the recent past.

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

You should look up the meaning of 'conspiracy theory' because the view put forward by many people amounts to a conspiracy theory: Sky's success is due to the covert coordination of Sky's management, doctors with access to secret drugs, the involvement of the UCI and anti-doping officials, Sky's media control (e.g, David Walsh is now complicit, Sky controls media outlets) for the purposes of generating revenue in the UK market. All these elements are purported here.

Wkipedia quotes on meaning of conspiracy theory: "A conspiracy theory purports to explain an important social, political, or economic event as being caused or covered up by a covert group or organization."

"a conspiracy theory is a belief which explains an event as the result of a secret plot by exceptionally powerful and cunning conspirators to achieve a malevolent end."

A scientist quoting wikipedia, uh uh.

Grazie mille wikimaster.

Any thoughts on sunday or is that too much nostradamus for you?

 

[mastersracer]

A scientist quoting wikipedia, uh uh.

Grazie mille wikimaster.

Any thoughts on sunday or is that too much nostradamus for you?

Sagan will win (I also think he's clean).

 

[The Hitch]

None of this applies. There's nothing exceptional about what this cover-up would involve, seeing as how the exact same thing is well documented to have already happened in the recent past.

Also, since when is winning the Criterium International " an important social, political, or economic event"

And how are Bailsford and Wiggins "exceptionally powerful and cunning conspirators". They can't even get the number of days Leinders worked right. Nor were they smart enough to think before styling themselves as the successors to Lance and USPostal

A scientist quoting wikipedia, uh uh.

lol good point

 

[mastersracer]

Also, since when is winning the Criterium International " an important social, political, or economic event"

And how are Bailsford and Wiggins "exceptionally powerful and cunning conspirators". They can't even get the number of days Leinders worked right. Nor were they smart enough to think before styling themselves as the successors to Lance and USPostal

lol good point

Also, since when is winning the Criterium International " an important social, political, or economic event"

And how are Bailsford and Wiggins "exceptionally powerful and cunning conspirators". They can't even get the number of days Leinders worked right. Nor were they smart enough to think before styling themselves as the successors to Lance and USPostal

lol good point

sorry, here you go: some nice Dutch authors just for FGL:

Belief in conspiracy theories: The influence of uncertainty and perceived morality, Van Prooijen JW (Van Prooijen, Jan-Willem); Jostmann NB (Jostmann, Nils B.) EUROPEAN JOURNAL OF SOCIAL PSYCHOLOGY Volume: 43 Issue: 1 Pages: 109-115.