Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[the sceptic]

Looking at old Wiggo interviews is a fun game.

Britain's Bradley Wiggins said last night he had always been suspicious of Alexandr Vinokourov's performance in Saturday's time trial after which he tested positive for blood doping, throwing the race into a fresh crisis. "I know how well I went in the time trial, what power output I had," said Wiggins. "I know that in order to put two minutes into me, what power Vino would have had to have put out and the effort he would have had to make and it didn't add up. At the time I was frightened of what I might say.

Once again he singled out a British rider, and hoped that, as clean rider he'd achieve better results with dopers forced out of the sport. "You might not have the big names like Vinokourov or Rasmussen but you might be talking about younger riders, clean riders like Charlie Wegelius who's up in the top 40 and is a tremendous climber yet perhaps isn't able to shine like the other pure climbers like Rasmussen because he's not doing what they're doing," he said. "Hopefully in two years time when I return to the Tour I might be the Prologue winner or I might win the Time Trial and be a credible Time Trial winner because I haven't beaten someone by two and a half minutes. Credible, clean riders are what's gonna be the future of the sport."

some beautiful irony there.

As many others are beginning to say, the Olympic champion also feels that a disproportionate amount of the pressure is put on riders to be whiter than white, while teams and their managers don't have the same concerns. He singles out one particular team for specific criticism: "I think the team managers have to take responsibility for this as well because they're willing to pay these guys who are under suspicion and have been involved in previous years in doping scandals. Ivan Basso, last year got thrown off the Tour is disgrace - [Discovery Channel's Johan] Brunyeel this year goes and signs him on a million Euro contract.

"The hypocrisy in that is unbelievable," Wiggins stated. "These guys are running some of the biggest professional cycling teams in the sport. What's their motivation within the sport if they are willing to sign someone who they knew was under investigation of who had been thrown out of the Tour the previous year. Not every team manager thinks that way but it seems that there is a minority out there who aren't willing to play by the rules - including the team managers."

Unbelievable hypocrisy indeed

 

[peterst6906]

EBH isn't riding any of the Ardennes classics so waiting a few weeks isn't going to tell us very much!

thanks.

 

[armchairclimber]

Looking at old Wiggo interviews is a fun game.





some beautiful irony there.



Unbelievable hypocrisy indeed

You obviously don't understand the meaning of "hypocrisy". He's clean, so there isn't anything hypocritical about it.

 

[WinterRider]

Agreed, but it's not very funny.

I think it's pretty funny.

 

[thehog]

You obviously don't understand the meaning of "hypocrisy". He's clean, so there isn't anything hypocritical about it.

Here I'll give you a hand with "hypocrisy". Spot the difference

--

As many others are beginning to say, the Olympic champion also feels that a disproportionate amount of the pressure is put on riders to be whiter than white, while teams and their managers don't have the same concerns. He singles out one particular team for specific criticism: "I think the team managers have to take responsibility for this as well because they're willing to pay these guys who are under suspicion and have been involved in previous years in doping scandals. Geert Leinders, last year got thrown off Rabobank is a disgrace - Brailsford this year goes and signs him on a million Euro contract.

"The hypocrisy in that is unbelievable," Wiggins stated. "These guys are running some of the biggest professional cycling teams in the sport. What's their motivation within the sport if they are willing to sign someone who they knew was under investigation of who had been thrown out of the Tour the previous year. Not every team manager thinks that way but it seems that there is a minority out there who aren't willing to play by the rules - including the team managers."

 

[Dear Wiggo]

People who think Sky and in particular Wiggins are clean:

armchairclimber
leon7766

Anyone else?

From my understanding, most other posters either don't know, without some hard evidence, or think he's definitely on something.

My point being: even with the UK faithful, there are very few who are entirely convinced.

 

[ferryman]

People who think Sky and in particular Wiggins are clean:

armchairclimber
leon7766

Anyone else?

From my understanding, most other posters either don't know, without some hard evidence, or think he's definitely on something.

You are being very generous. That is all.

 

[thehog]

People who think Sky and in particular Wiggins are clean:

armchairclimber
leon7766

Anyone else?

From my understanding, most other posters either don't know, without some hard evidence, or think he's definitely on something.

My point being: even with the UK faithful, there are very few who are entirely convinced.

Even TeamSkyfans over at Velorooms has given up.

His position is they're on something but not prepared to say what it is.

I think the Dawg turned him. Not sure.

But there are very few these days apart from newbies who think they're clean.

 

[Ripper]

Who knows?

Maybe it his unwitting expression of a confidence in his own cleanliness and the lack of confidence in Schleck and Contador.

Bwa ha ha ha! Actually, ba ha ha ha ha!

I can't even respond, you're such a crazy forumist! And funny!

dooooooosh

 

[Ripper]

You obviously don't understand the meaning of "hypocrisy". He's clean, so there isn't anything hypocritical about it.

Ta ta ta trollin'

dum dum de

Ta ta trollin'!

 

[armchairclimber]

Here I'll give you a hand with "hypocrisy". Spot the difference

--

As many others are beginning to say, the Olympic champion also feels that a disproportionate amount of the pressure is put on riders to be whiter than white, while teams and their managers don't have the same concerns. He singles out one particular team for specific criticism: "I think the team managers have to take responsibility for this as well because they're willing to pay these guys who are under suspicion and have been involved in previous years in doping scandals. Geert Leinders, last year got thrown off Rabobank is a disgrace - Brailsford this year goes and signs him on a million Euro contract.

"The hypocrisy in that is unbelievable," Wiggins stated. "These guys are running some of the biggest professional cycling teams in the sport. What's their motivation within the sport if they are willing to sign someone who they knew was under investigation of who had been thrown out of the Tour the previous year. Not every team manager thinks that way but it seems that there is a minority out there who aren't willing to play by the rules - including the team managers."

Still no hypocrisy on his part....unless you're suggesting that Wiggins hired dirty Gertie.

 

[northstar]

Still no hypocrisy on his part....unless you're suggesting that Wiggins hired dirty Gertie.

In the quote, Wiggins points out the hypocrisy of pressuring riders to be clean but no similar pressure is put on teams or team managers and he uses Bruyneel signing known doper Basso as an example . Along comes Sky with its zero tolerance policy pressuring riders and staff to be clean. But then Brailsford goes and hires known doping doctor Leinders. It is indeed unbelievable hypocrisy.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

In the quote, Wiggins points out the hypocrisy of pressuring riders to be clean but no similar pressure is put on teams or team managers and he uses Bruyneel signing known doper Basso as an example . Along comes Sky with its zero tolerance policy pressuring riders and staff to be clean. But then Brailsford goes and hires known doping doctor Leinders. It is indeed unbelievable hypocrisy.

And other known dopers.

 

[Ferminal]

Do we count DLG as a known doper?

 

[will10]

People who think Sky and in particular Wiggins are clean:

armchairclimber
leon7766

Anyone else?

From my understanding, most other posters either don't know, without some hard evidence, or think he's definitely on something.

My point being: even with the UK faithful, there are very few who are entirely convinced.

I suspect Wiggins less than Froome and Rogers. And to some extent Porte. David Lopez and Dario Cataldo have certainly caught the eye this spring, too. Kiryienka, well, he's done these epic rides before and the way he rode at Tinkoff(...) and Caisse, you can see why Sky would want him as he is perfectly suited to bashing out tempo on the front for hours.

 

[spalco]

Agreed, but it's not very funny.

Well, of course you'd say that.

 

[armchairclimber]

In the quote, Wiggins points out the hypocrisy of pressuring riders to be clean but no similar pressure is put on teams or team managers and he uses Bruyneel signing known doper Basso as an example . Along comes Sky with its zero tolerance policy pressuring riders and staff to be clean. But then Brailsford goes and hires known doping doctor Leinders. It is indeed unbelievable hypocrisy.

Another who doesn't understand the word "hypocrisy". It would only be hypocrisy if Wiggins was doing the hiring...i.e his actions being contrary to his statements.
There's irony I suppose.

 

[spalco]

This was posted in the LeMond thread, but my response is more fitting here:

[snip]
Even though SKY promoted a Zero Tolerance Policy, they still hired Leinders even though they had a number of former Rabobank riders on their team(Flecha, Hayman etc) who probably knew the score. After struggling on the stage race front for 18 months, it just so happens that around the same time of Leinders hiring, a few SKY riders suddenly transform into amazing riders having previously been average riders and have remained at that level since and SKY only ditched Leinders when they bowed to public pressure when his backstory hit the newspapers.
[snip]

I don't deny that the Leinders hiring is very disturbing, and hasn't been explained satisfyingly at all by Sky, but I have a problem with making that big a deal out of it as in the above quote, because I simply don't think Leinders was actually that good at doping.

As far as I can tell, Leinders was quite conservative at Rabobank, we haven't heard anything about him doing anything revolutionary or earth-shattering. If he were the source of Sky's "secret sauce", then why didn't Rabobank have much better results, especially in the Tour de France? And if he's not the source, but just someone Sky hired to apply "the sauce", then wasn't he completely expendable anyway?

I just don't see how Leinders could have possibly made that big a difference for Sky, even if his job description included doping.

 

[Lanark]

Leinders experimented at Rabobank to see how you could make sure that blood transfusion showed as little in blood values of the riders. I'm sure that kind of know how is very important for a team setting up a doping program, knowledge a general practitioner wouldn't have.

 

[spalco]

That's reasonable, but it doesn't explain why Sky wins so many more races than Rabobank.

 

[Dear Wiggo]

That's reasonable, but it doesn't explain why Sky wins so many more races than Rabobank.

One suggestion: please nominate the year Rabobank met with ASO. Or had a close tie with the UCI.

 

[Ferminal]

Who won more GTs than Rabo 2004-2007?

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Also: when Leinders worked with Rabobank, it was carte blanche on doping, meaning anyone could do it, mostly with impunity.

Now it's not so much the case. Leinders can get the system in place, but it takes much better political nouse to get the bases covered.

 

[JRanton]

Do we count DLG as a known doper?

Is there anything doing the rounds on him? I'm sure he has but I hadn't heard of any links.

 

[MatParker117]

That's reasonable, but it doesn't explain why Sky wins so many more races than Rabobank.

Significantly better riders and tactics? Although Blanco beat Sky to the TDU overall this year.