Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[iZnoGouD]

I tell you even more, the hours that you all spend here on the clinic if you used them by rding a bike you'd all be pro cyclists

 

[Netserk]

I tell you even more, the hours that you all spend here on the clinic if you used them by rding a bike you'd all be pro cyclists

Or both?

 

[Trudgin]

Ag2r set up the sport science facility years ago.


Problem with Bots-R-Us is they only read articles on Sky.

 

[thehog]

Problem with Bots-R-Us is they only read articles on Sky.

Bots-R-Us read the SkyBible and quote from it.

Ye shall warm down for maximus gainus: Johan 3:16.

It never accors to Bots that other teams might also spend time with sports science. Apparently 20 years of doping means that every single rider bar the Sky ones don't know how to train because they've all been doping. Including the French teams

It does demonstrate that people are willing to believe anything.

 

[Trudgin]

Bots-R-Us read the SkyBible and quote from it.

Ye shall warm down for maximus gainus: Johan 3:16.

It never accors to Bots that other teams might also spend time with sports science. Apparently 20 years of doping means that every single rider bar the Sky ones don't know how to train because they've all been doping. Including the French teams

It does demonstrate that people are willing to believe anything.

It is funny to see how they all just follow the exact trajectory of the Koolaid drinkers before them with the same lalalalalalalalala I'm not listening to anything....

I have seen you and others trying to explain that, really, it has all been done before... ALL of it....

 

[ebandit]

strangely

It does demonstrate that people are willing to believe anything.

strangely? i read much of the clinic posts but don't believe half of the stuff
that appears

it's chat.................can be amusing

still waiting for the breakthrough news showing that team sky have been telling porkies about their 'clean team'

and i mean more than half truths re leinders etc

Mark L

 

[Spectacleur]

Thats nothing, he did 480 watts last year.

I'm awaiting what Vayer and Portoleau found about Froome and Wiggins in their next book.
http://www.alternativeditions.com/21-counts/21-profiles/

 

[the sceptic]

I know sir Wiggins was probably only going at 60% when he was at the front with 4 km to go. But for all skys attention to detail, they sure do a lot of stupid things like that.

 

[Benotti69]

strangely? i read much of the clinic posts but don't believe half of the stuff
that appears

it's chat.................can be amusing

still waiting for the breakthrough news showing that team sky have been telling porkies about their 'clean team'

and i mean more than half truths re leinders etc

Mark L

Half truths in cycling are lies.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I tell you even more, the hours that you all spend here on the clinic if you used them by rding a bike you'd all be pro cyclists

We'd need a doping program to stay in the elite peloton though.

We would have needed in the early 2000's when the same comment was used to pretend Armstrong wasn't doping. Pay no attention the other PED-fueled ridiculousness from the same era.

This is deja-vu all over again.

 

[DirtyWorks]

I know sir Wiggins was probably only going at 60% when he was at the front with 4 km to go. But for all skys attention to detail, they sure do a lot of stupid things like that.

Let's not forget the 2012 TdF champion leading out his sprinter during the TdF.

The Giro has been interesting. I thought I'd see the Sky train from stage 1 and it become a parade thereafter. Wiggo's been isolated one day and then leading the peloton around like a domestique and the article about the Colombians potentially leaving Sky.

Maybe the warming down isn't long enough? New pillows?

 

[Catwhoorg]

Let's not forget the 2012 TdF champion leading out his sprinter during the TdF.

IIRC lead out EBH in an earlier stage as well as Cav.

The Cav leadout was clearly payback for the 2008 Madison in my mind.

 

[The Hitch]

Let's not forget the 2012 TdF champion leading out his sprinter during the TdF.

The Giro has been interesting. I thought I'd see the Sky train from stage 1 and it become a parade thereafter. Wiggo's been isolated one day and then leading the peloton around like a domestique and the article about the Colombians potentially leaving Sky.

Maybe the warming down isn't long enough? New pillows?

On stage 21? Why was that a stupid thing? He had the race won, he was risking nothing by taking a turn on the front.

 

[martinvickers]

USAC were building as well with Weisel

Building slowly does not mean they did it clean.

I didn't say it did.

What I said was the analogy with Michelle Smyth De Bruin was a very poor one.

On your new point though - here's the thing - NOTHING seems to be indicative one way or the other, because there's always a counter example. And that's because almost ALL of them were dopers, in all their infinite variety.

So long career builds are dirty, but sudden improvements are dirty. Where later bloomers are dirty, but young prodigy's are dirty. where anglophones are dirty, where continentals are dirty. Where people who talk are dirty, and people who won't are dirty.

To the point were making the points becomes meaningless. Nothing is probative of anything. Show some actual evidence, please, for the love of Mary.

 

[martinvickers]

IIRC lead out EBH in an earlier stage as well as Cav.

The Cav leadout was clearly payback for the 2008 Madison in my mind.

I think that debt was paid with the rainbow stripes. Believe it or not, the two just seem to get on well.

 

[martinvickers]

The point is a clean rider could win right up until the advent of the blood vector doping era, after that I really don't think so, at least not the big races. So therefore it is not "impossible to know what a clean rider could do", in the pre blood vector days they could win. Since then a clean rider could not win. So not the same, right?
And I never said anybody was an "ordinary, decent doper", but thanks for trying to put words in my mouth.
I understand Engish just fine, I only have a bit of a problem with your words.

Says who, the riders of that era? How many do you reckon were clean? Of all the key winners, only Lemond seems to be a near clean certainty, and he had a VO2 max that could only be described as freakish.

 

[Benotti69]

So long career builds are dirty, but sudden improvements are dirty. Where later bloomers are dirty, but young prodigy's are dirty. where anglophones are dirty, where continentals are dirty. Where people who talk are dirty, and people who won't are dirty.

Welcome to the sport of pro cycling.

 

[Catwhoorg]

I think that debt was paid with the rainbow stripes. Believe it or not, the two just seem to get on well.

I believe it. Well after the brief phase of resentment. The two of them always have seemed to be good buddies.

 

[martinvickers]

Welcome to the sport of pro cycling.

But that's the point. NONE of these things are probative of dirtiness or cleanness in and of themselves. And the conversation becomes meaningless,a simple repetition of an entrenched belief system, not a discussion of evidence.

And so we're back to taking eternal doping as a position of faith. And I don't do cults, sorry.

 

[the sceptic]

But that's the point. NONE of these things are probative of dirtiness or cleanness in and of themselves. And the conversation becomes meaningless,a simple repetition of an entrenched belief system, not a discussion of evidence.

And so we're back to taking eternal doping as a position of faith. And I don't do cults, sorry.

are you sure? because thinking the peloton is suddenly clean is a much bigger leap of faith than thinking its still dirty.

 

[Benotti69]

But that's the point. NONE of these things are probative of dirtiness or cleanness in and of themselves. And the conversation becomes meaningless,a simple repetition of an entrenched belief system, not a discussion of evidence.

And so we're back to taking eternal doping as a position of faith. And I don't do cults, sorry.

Faith smaith, it is the reality. When did that reality change? Faith is believing the clean teams BS PR, that's faith. Cult is following Sky's marginal gains BS, and you sir are a fully paid up member of the cult.

 

[blackcat]

are you sure? because thinking the peloton is suddenly clean is a much bigger leap of faith than thinking its still dirty.

Faith smaith, it is the reality. When did that reality change? Faith is believing the clean teams BS PR, that's faith. Cult is following Sky's margianl gains BS, and you sir are a fully paid up member of the cult.

in defense of MartinVickers, the sport has never been clean, so a defacto position, =doping. Does Sky do an equivalent of pantani, riis, ullrich, basso, landis, beloki and USPS.

I dont think they are quite there. they do enough to win. But part of their strength, is the less power teams in the peloton, stacked with talent, and money to support their doctors and medical program.

i dont see sky sooo egregious as those on here. heck, garmin are putting up a fight, and they do not have the doctors with the medical program and blood bags on tap. they have to do it in the fire break plausible deniability and degrees of separation, and maintain you biopassport parameters. so sky cannot be that bad if they are not showing garmin a clean set of heels.

 

[DirtyWorks]

stop being ironic and start your opening your mind a little

Haha! http://www.thestick.co.nz/cycling.html

Granville for the win!

 

[Franklin]

SNIP

This is exactly why I still believe Sky is clean(ish). However, there is enough to be really not pleased about. The attitude, the lies, the difference between words and walk.

 

[martinvickers]

are you sure? because thinking the peloton is suddenly clean is a much bigger leap of faith than thinking its still dirty.

But I don't think it's suddenly clean. i've no idea how clean it is. neither do you.

But I don't see the sense in replacing ignorance with religiosity.