Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[ianfra]

Saints go marching in

'I've been a saint all my life' I felt a little bit sick reading that...

On the other hand I absolutely loved it ..............

 

[SundayRider]

On the other hand I absolutely loved it ..............

There is some American dude who also used to finish at the back during the mountains, he went on to be a pretty good stage racer, do you love him too?

 

[Ferminal]

Come on. Just think about the evidence there was against LA four years ago, compared to what you think there is against Sky now.

The "never tested positive" argument is invalid no matter who we are referring to. Even if you were trying to verify a clean rider you still wouldn't use it.

 

[mattghg]

OK I see what you mean FGL. Yes, Walsh could/should have done better. My point was that even with the questions he did ask BW (and, to be fair, we don't know what else he asked as there can be only so many words in an article) he definitely went further than he had to, so calling him a 'sellout' or 'mouthpiece' is out of line. The reaction of someone with a moderate interest in road cycling to that article would probably be 'wait, Wiggins said that about Lance Armstrong?'. So I don't think it was all that fluffy.

 

[mattghg]

The "never tested positive" argument is invalid no matter who we are referring to. Even if you were trying to verify a clean rider you still wouldn't use it.

Agreed. Who's using the argument now?

 

[Cramps]

Come on. Just think about the evidence there was against LA four years ago, compared to what you think there is against Sky now.

Maybe that's a useful perspective

In 2004 Walsh summarised the then-available evidence against LA:
Dominant performance in a single tour over five years
Association with Ferrari
Rumours of admission to doctors in 1996
Failed test in 1999

Wiggins evidence:
Dominant performance in one tour

EVeryone fill free to fill in the gaps

 

[Bexon30]

Maybe that's a useful perspective

In 2004 Walsh summarised the then-available evidence against LA:
Dominant performance in a single tour over five years
Association with Ferrari
Rumours of admission to doctors in 1996
Failed test in 1999

Wiggins evidence:
Dominant performance in one tour

EVeryone fill free to fill in the gaps

2 year Association with Geert Leindeers. You forgot that.

 

[SundayRider]

Maybe that's a useful perspective

In 2004 Walsh summarised the then-available evidence against LA:
Dominant performance in a single tour over five years
Association with Ferrari
Rumours of admission to doctors in 1996
Failed test in 1999

Wiggins evidence:
Dominant performance in one tour

EVeryone fill free to fill in the gaps

Add average finish of 113th in GTs before sudden placing of 3rd (amongst rampant dopers) in 2009 Tour, in the autumn of his career.

 

[mikehammer67]

association with david brailsford

a famous s****er

 

[ianfra]

2 year Association with Geert Leindeers. You forgot that.

Guilt by association? You'd only get condemned for that in a fascist state! There is no evidence that he associated with GL for two years. GL was employed on a freelance basis and is said to have only worked for 80 days (I think). So cut that 2 years down to 80 days. Which days? Where was Wiggins? In his bedroom? The brief thesis advanced by Bexon is very weak!

 

[ianfra]

There is some American dude who also used to finish at the back during the mountains, he went on to be a pretty good stage racer, do you love him too?

I think if you read my posts you would find an answer to that repeated over and over again. Please do so then come back with a proper response, not one on the fly as you have just done!
Indeed I ranted against Armstrong many years ago, but I never made a direct accusation. I always prefaced remarks to cycling colleagues with "I believe that he may be ...." "It is my opinion that ...." and so on and so forth. Like that I was not in danger of slandering or libelling anyone as I had no proof. I don't think many of the posters in this thread operate strict checks and balances before saying what they think - because they post their accusations as fact. Indeed, I have also been accused of stuff here and these accusations have been so far from the truth that it tends to verify my strong opinion that many of theposters here have got hold of the wrong end of the stick about Sky. But I guess it makes it an interesting discussion and keeps the Clinic a lively place.

 

[Benotti69]

Guilt by association? You'd only get condemned for that in a fascist state! There is no evidence that he associated with GL for two years. GL was employed on a freelance basis and is said to have only worked for 80 days (I think). So cut that 2 years down to 80 days. Which days? Where was Wiggins? In his bedroom? The brief thesis advanced by Bexon is very weak!

For a guy following the sport allegedly since the 60s, posting tired old BS like Guilty by association has pretty much been spot on in cycling.

To bring it down to facism is sad and dismisses your post and attitude completely as the fanboyism you are.

 

[SundayRider]

Guilt by association? You'd only get condemned for that in a fascist state! There is no evidence that he associated with GL for two years. GL was employed on a freelance basis and is said to have only worked for 80 days (I think). So cut that 2 years down to 80 days. Which days? Where was Wiggins? In his bedroom? The brief thesis advanced by Bexon is very weak!

Well there is a couple of paragraphs in his latest book on good old Gert. BW said that he is a 'bloody good Doctor'.

 

[Bexon30]

Guilt by association? You'd only get condemned for that in a fascist state! There is no evidence that he associated with GL for two years. GL was employed on a freelance basis and is said to have only worked for 80 days (I think). So cut that 2 years down to 80 days. Which days? Where was Wiggins? In his bedroom? The brief thesis advanced by Bexon is very weak!

Sorry!! I thought everyone here was aware of 2 years being a period time Geert worked with/for Sky. If he worked 80 or 40 a year I couldn't say I care really other than the fact that he was there on and off for 2 years. 2011/2012. It's merely a fact that was missed on the original post. I'm not saying anything about what happened during the 2 years. But what I will say is that Geert had previous doping links and was employed on a freelance basis by a team with a SELF CONFESSED zero doping policy. You make of that what you will...

 

[brilleaben]

Add his mancrush on Lance.

 

[Ripper]

Maybe that's a useful perspective

In 2004 Walsh summarised the then-available evidence against LA:
Dominant performance in a single tour over five years
Association with Ferrari
Rumours of admission to doctors in 1996
Failed test in 1999

Wiggins evidence:
Dominant performance in one tour

EVeryone fill free to fill in the gaps

While I appreciate you might be trying to simply things, the bolded part is pretty selective, as folks issues with Wiggo's transformation are much more than just le Tour. Or then again, may be you know that and are trolling a bit?

 

[ianfra]

Sorry!! I thought everyone here was aware of 2 years being a period time Geert worked with/for Sky. If he worked 80 or 40 a year I couldn't say I care really other than the fact that he was there on and off for 2 years. 2011/2012. It's merely a fact that was missed on the original post. I'm not saying anything about what happened during the 2 years. But what I will say is that Geert had previous doping links and was employed on a freelance basis by a team with a SELF CONFESSED zero doping policy. You make of that what you will...

And once he had been exposed to Sky they got rid of him. Sadly it seems that he didn't reveal his dubious history when recruited ........ People mislead others quite often when they want a job! So I see nothing at all sinister in this, unless off course, you are trying to scratch around and make a case .....

 

[Ripper]

On the other hand I absolutely loved it ..............

Of course you did. We know you love Wiggo.

That does not change the issues that surround him and Sky.

 

[ianfra]

For a guy following the sport allegedly since the 60s, posting tired old BS like Guilty by association has pretty much been spot on in cycling.

To bring it down to facism is sad and dismisses your post and attitude completely as the fanboyism you are.

Allegedly? There you are, you can use this word, except in this case it is entirely misplaced.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

And once he had been exposed to Sky they got rid of him. Sadly it seems that he didn't reveal his dubious history when recruited ........ People mislead others quite often when they want a job! So I see nothing at all sinister in this, unless off course, you are trying to scratch around and make a case .....

You mean once Leinders doping was exposed to the world, Sky had an investigation that took 5 months and then didn't renew his contract?

And Leinders was recommended by De Jongh - Leinders dubious history appears to have been why he was hired.

 

[heart_attack_man]

You mean once Leinders doping was exposed to the world, Sky had an investigation that took 5 months and then didn't renew his contract?

And Leinders was recommended by De Jongh - Leinders dubious history appears to have been why he was hired.

And for saddle sores - don't forget the saddle sores.

Also, they only didn't renew his contract after they were followed up on it too - I bet if it had have been swept under the rug as easily as they were hoping, I very much suspect that they would have renewed the contract...

Also, I find it funny that they try and paint the fact that they "only" used him for 80 days as a positive thing...

How much time do doping docs need to give to their clients?

 

[mikehammer67]

And once he had been exposed to Sky they got rid of him. Sadly it seems that he didn't reveal his dubious history when recruited ........ People mislead others quite often when they want a job! So I see nothing at all sinister in this, unless off course, you are trying to scratch around and make a case .....

they do
but a good interview will suss them out

and they prob already knew 'all about' leinders -just statin the obvious like

 

[mikehammer67]

And for saddle sores - don't forget the saddle sores.

Also, they only didn't renew his contract after they were followed up on it too - I bet if it had have been swept under the rug as easily as they were hoping, I very much suspect that they would have renewed the contract...

Also, I find it funny that they try and paint the fact that they "only" used him for 80 days as a positive thing...

How much time do doping docs need to give to their clients?

he didn't live up to his hype
so he got sidelined and was only used for 40 days in the end

 

[Alphabet]

Hey do you have a thing with the brits , I see your from Aus do you no your idol Evans(Mapei, Dr Ferrari) has an even sketchier past than any one in Sky, all I see is BS in every thing you post about Sky, why? Isit because they ride dominant in the mountains, look at Kangert pulling for km after km. I bet you didn't post that he is doped, no i thought not.

Just because a person happens to be Australian does not make Cadel Evans their idol. The only Australian I know of that posts here who is a Cadel fanboy is ACF94. Subliminally you're trying to pass off a message here that Australians are jealous of Wiggins' success as he is English (an exploit JimmyFingers tried several hundred pages back and one del1962 tried in the Evans thread- utter rubbish) which couldn't be further from the truth. Cycling is for the most part not a sport in which fans are jingoistic, despite the assertions of legions of English fans who insist that it's The Ashes on wheels.

Also people do post about Evans. There's a thread on the very first page of the Clinic about him. He doesn't receive as much discussion as Sky do because for the most part, there is little disagreement on him- people generally agree that in order to have sustained such a high level of performance over almost a decade mixing it with the likes of Lance and Landis, he must have doped.

 

[Bala Verde]

Lol skybot shelf number 13965-13 rides entire peloton off his wheels.