Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[DirtyWorks]

So if the point is to create British winners and stars, AND you have the doping means to do it, AND you can allegedly turn British donkey's into racehorses (wiggins, froome), AND you have a batch of tame british riders on site, already with some talent, why stick in a 'natural' Aussie in Porte as superdom, and then 'ruin' another natural, a 'new Mercx' in Norwegian Eddy?

<shrugs> It's not the death blow to the argument that more sporting fraud is taking place at sky.


USPS/Disco hired guys that didn't work out. They aren't the only case either.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

I had a conversation on twitter today with a Norwegian person about this and I brought this up. It was said back to me that Kimmage meant money was the reason for him staying there.

So Kimmage was talking in Norwegian talented guy.

If you wish to take that interpretation than I respect that, but I don't. It makes no sense in the article, nor to PKs overall point that EBH has not realised his talent - PK would not query EBH was making big money, but would query why a team would invest heavily for a guy to (relatively) under-perform.

 

[Ripper]

Of course because Journo Jesus thinks EBH is destined to be a grand tour contender he must be.

Get out much?

 

[del1962]

Get out much?

Whatever..

 

[martinvickers]

Firstly - you are not me, you are not on my timeline, so you have no idea (and some cheek) to suggest what I read and followed on my timeline.

Not the slightest clue what you're on about here.

Furthermore - it was more than 10 minutes,Kennaughs tweet was at 17:12 CET, Tv2 piece was not posted until 17:32 (assuming CET) is 20 minutes.[/QUOTE]

You asked how long it took ME. From the point I saw the kennaugh tweet to reading the story was less thanten minutes. Not from when kennaugh tweeted, from when I SAW kennaughs tweet. The fact it went from tweet to press in just twenty actually backs that up.

It helps if you want to be a pedant not to contradict your own premise.

 

[neineinei]

Han påpeker at andre ryttere, med mye dårligere utgang*****t enn Boasson Hagen, har klart å utvikle seg til å bli gode sammenlagtryttere.

He (Kimmage) points out that other riders, with a much poorer starting point than Boasson Hagen, has been able to evolve into good GC riders.

http://www.vg.no/sport/sykkel/tour-de-france/2013/artikkel.php?artid=10104637

http://www.cyclesportmag.com/features/inside-the-mind-of-dave-brailsford/

 

[neineinei]

Even reading it again I still take it as Sky are paying him a lot of money, not EBH being a mercenary.
And in particular when it is done through google translate, because the next line makes no sense and is opposite to what he suggests:

I'm surprised he's been in Sky so long. I do not know what they are paying him, but there must be serious amounts of money. He has not got the potential. He should have been leader of a team. For me he should have been one of those who came to the Tour as one of the favorites to win. ...

Some final points - I can certainly understand if EBH is peed off with what was said, and while I thought Kennaugh was a bit OTT, again it is understandable.
More importantly - for all the Sky fans who are upset about PKs actions - it would not have been known about had Kennaugh not sent the tweet.

Google translates this wrong. In Norwegian it says "Han har ikke fått ut potensialet sitt." - He hasn't fulfilled his potential.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Whatever Kimmage was trying to get out, it is a shame he used EBH to do it, disrespectful considering he's just won his home tour and national TT, and disruptive just before the beginning of the TdF. Definitely Eddy being trampled by Kimmage to achieve whatever aim he is after.

 

[Benotti69]

Whatever Kimmage was trying to get out, it is a shame he used EBH to do it, disrespectful considering he's just won his home tour and national TT, and disruptive just before the beginning of the TdF. Definitely Eddy being trampled by Kimmage to achieve whatever aim he is after.

Typical language from a fanboy.

Kimmage asked the head of Sky about a rider. Guess what, that is Kimmage's job to ask questions. His aim, to get to the truth, as has always been Kimmage's aim.

That he rocks the Sky boat really upsets the fanboys same way it upset Monkeymouth's fanboys.

As one infamous fanboy used to say SSDD

 

[JimmyFingers]

Typical language from a fanboy.

Kimmage asked the head of Sky about a rider. Guess what, that is Kimmage's job to ask questions. His aim, to get to the truth, as has always been Kimmage's aim.

That he rocks the Sky boat really upsets the fanboys same way it upset Monkeymouth's fanboys.

As one infamous fanboy used to say SSDD

Typical language of a Kimmage fanboy. You may love him, he may be your spiritual leader, but it doesn't change the fact that to many he comes across as vindictive. Eddy didn't deserve that, yet again the rider is made the victim.

 

[Mr.38%]

Whatever Kimmage was trying to get out, it is a shame he used EBH to do it, disrespectful considering he's just won his home tour and national TT, and disruptive just before the beginning of the TdF. Definitely Eddy being trampled by Kimmage to achieve whatever aim he is after.

Kimmage is teasing. He hit a spot, don't you think? I wonder who the real Walter(s) will be. My bet is on a marginal Walter.

 

[JimmyFingers]

if by hitting a spot you mean he offended people, then yes, he did.

 

[Benotti69]

Typical language of a Kimmage fanboy. You may love him, he may be your spiritual leader, but it doesn't change the fact that to many he comes across as vindictive. Eddy didn't deserve that, yet again the rider is made the victim.

I dont 'love' him but definitely respect him for his uncompromising stand on the sport.

He comes across as vindictive to people like you because he questions your hopes and heros.

Eddy doesn't deserve what? He questioned Brailsford as to why a super talented guy like Eddy had not gone on to the levels of Froome and Wiggins when he showed much more ability and talent?

Did he put Eddy down? Did he allude to Eddy doping? No but spin it as vindictive in the same vein the Armstrong muppets did not so long ago.

From a independent standpoint, which you dont have, that is a legitimate question.

It would be like asking Cannondale why a young Moser became the chosen one when Sagan has buckets of ability.

 

[Benotti69]

if by hitting a spot you mean he offended people, then yes, he did.

Stop crying, he only offended omerta.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Did he put Eddy down? Did he allude to Eddy doping? No but spin it as vindictive in the same vein the Armstrong muppets did not so long ago.

From a independent standpoint, which you dont have, that is a legitimate question.

If I'm not being objective about this, then you certainly aren't either. And yes, it was putting Eddy down, saying he isn't as good as he should be. You don't think that EBH knows that? There was criticism already this season from an underwhelming classics campaign, he must be feeling the pressure to come good keenly I would expect, and he has the TdF coming up.

And Kimmage used him to score points. Applaud it if you like, I don't think he deserved it.

 

[Mr.38%]

if by hitting a spot you mean he offended people, then yes, he did.

Who did he offend? What exactly was offensive?

 

[Von Mises]

I will help save the internet.
There was one rider who had an impressive transformation that took me by surprise, Urs Zimmerman.
So as not to break the internet he finished 3rd in 1986 TdF, prior to that he had only completed 2 GTs, 58th in TdF 84 & 50th in Giro 85.
However, what I was not aware of in 86 was that he had won the Tour de Suisse in his first year in 84 and was a former World Amateur champion.

Though I agree that generally talent shows early, you can still find from history several Zimmerman type transformations (especially if you include TOP 3 placings).

 

[JimmyFingers]

@Mr 38% Well Peter Kennaugh for one, presumably angry on EBH's behalf, and I'd imagine other Sky riders and EBH's friends too, and EBH himself. For reasons I have detailed above.

It may be fair game for a journalist to do, but certainly not a classy move from Kimmage.

 

[Mr.38%]

Formally, Kimmage was not offensive. That remains my point.

If you say his cancer comparison was offensive, yeah, I agree. But not this time.

 

[Benotti69]

@Mr 38% Well Peter Kennaugh for one, presumably angry on EBH's behalf, and I'd imagine other Sky riders and EBH's friends too, and EBH himself. For reasons I have detailed above.

It may be fair game for a journalist to do, but certainly not a classy move from Kimmage.

It has been along time since the sport was classy. Sky are the dominant team for the last 2 years. They have to expect hard questions. EBH cant be upset, he chose a sport where doping has been and is endemic.

Get over yourself.

 

[andy1234]

"So Paul, why is it that other journalists are able to go about their business, without being universally disliked, by just about anyone they have come into contact with?"

"Don't you think you may get better results, by displaying just a semblance of social skill?"

Just asking....

 

[JimmyFingers]

It has been along time since the sport was classy. Sky are the dominant team for the last 2 years. They have to expect hard questions. EBH cant be upset, he chose a sport where doping has been and is endemic.

Get over yourself.

Ah so Eddy and other cyclists deserve anything that they get, gotcha. Cycling's past means they are fair game for 'hard' questions. Of course by saying that you acknowledge that Kimmage was being classless, but that it's ok because it's Sky.

As for getting over myself, it's good to have standards. Try it some time.

 

[Benotti69]

"So Paul, why is it that other journalists are able to go about their business, without being universally disliked, by just about anyone they have come into contact with?"

"Don't you think you may get better results, by displaying just a semblance of social skill?"

Just asking....

Who would those other journalists, to be generous to them, be? Those who luaded monkeymouth for 7TdF doped wins? Who toed the UCI line?

Sky appear to be asked hard questions for a change and all the dummies are being spat out?

Since when did journalism become a popularity contest?

In case you forgot, $90K plus was donated to the Kimmage fund. I think he has a fan or 2, just because it aint the likes of Fotheringahm, Moore or Seaton means tickety boo.

Journalism aint a popularity contest. But ASO invited him and not Monkeymouth so he is higher than others on some lists.

 

[melkemugg]

Typical language from a fanboy.

Kimmage asked the head of Sky about a rider. Guess what, that is Kimmage's job to ask questions. His aim, to get to the truth, as has always been Kimmage's aim.

That he rocks the Sky boat really upsets the fanboys same way it upset Monkeymouth's fanboys.

As one infamous fanboy used to say SSDD

Yes, Kimmages job is to get the truth out there. So what happens? His colleges have to have a second meeting after the press release so he can explain what he actual meant? Is that a clear message?

His intentions are right and in desperate need but he should ask himself if he think he himself are fulfilling his potential to get the truth out there.

Then again, his awkwardness raises attention.

 

[JimmyFingers]

In case you forgot, $90K plus was donated to the Kimmage fund. I think he has a fan or 2, just because it aint the likes of Fotheringahm, Moore or Seaton means tickety boo.

Yeah Aaron Brown is a huge fan of Kimmage