Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[goggalor]

(Queen+Brad)

Hah, what a comical looking ceremony.

 

[ebandit]

arise sir.................burp!

sir? and I'm a gentleman too.................honest!

success without honour is still success

Mark L

 

[The Hitch]

Wiggins: I swear to god, I'm gonna make froomie do this to me.

 

[Benotti69]

I think you will find the Renault-Elf-Gitane "procession of grand tour winners"
is much more impressive than the two that Team SKY/21st CENTURY FOX/
PINARELLO/RAPHA have won, but perhaps your knowledge of the "history of
trade team grand tour racing" does not extend that far back, my friend.

R-E-G had 2 out of 3 doping, you find that impressive?

 

[Fearless Greg Lemond]

Yes. Lets compare Renault with team Sky. Guimard with Brailsford. Wiggins with Hinault. Froomie with LeMond. Porte with Mottet. Madiot with, oops. Fignon with, oops.

Oops.

 

[oldcrank]

You've got a posh voice, I like posh voices...

 

[coinneach]

Wiggins & Froome now best of mates again:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/dec/11/chris-froome-bradley-wiggins-tensions

Not sure its going to make any difference now

 

[sniper]

Wiggins & Froome now best of mates again:

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2013/dec/11/chris-froome-bradley-wiggins-tensions

Not sure its going to make any difference now

"on good terms now".
iow, they still hate each others guts.

i'd love to see cathy and michelle in a mudfight.

 

[The Hitch]

Can't help but notice it's number 2 on the guardian's sports articles.

It's also a totally meaningless story that has nothing to do with sport and would be more at place in a south American midday telenovela for housewives.

Summarised in an unimaginative article that fills word limit by essentially bulletpointing a few well known facts about sky that everyone has heard about 10 million times by now (e.g. Wiggins won the 2012 tour De France)

And that is the 2 nd most popular news story in the guardian.
A newspaper which would sooner fold than offer any real coverage to the rest of the cycling calendar.

Sky's domination of cycling seems to exist purely to give the British media these 2 personalities for this conflict narrative they can pull out of their *** whenever they need a story.
And to give the British public a very patronizing insight into the tdf which is presented as a very minor sporting event to begin with since any meaningless brit can with the upper lip spirit and the Brailsford regime, learn to dominate the sport Usain Bolt style. and which usually takes the form of presenting a century old cycling tactic (e.g. team slipstream) as something invented by sky that gives them an advantage.

But outside the home country hype neither Wiggins nor froome seem to have the same popularity as previous contenders e.g. Contador and Schleck. Contador was massive in Denmark this year, partly because he rode for a Danish team. When he decided to ride the giro 2 years ago that got massive press in Italy throughout the year. By contrast when Wiggins did so this year, even though the British press tried to say that RCS loved Wiggins so much they were making the course especially for him in a desperate attempt to get him to the race, he went in as just another contender like Sastre in 09.

Looking at fans on here (prr section) or Twitter, only a small % of contadors fans are actually Spanish, with the most diehard ones being found in northern Europe and loads scattered across the continent. There was also massive support for schleck that obviously went beyond the small country in which he was a hero in.

By contrast 99% of sky fans are British.

The point being, the way sky has come to dominate the tdf has been so extreme it's had a strange effect on the attitude of cycling fans.

It's not like schleck and contador have great personalities.

Rabobank has been a team for over a decade which also aimed to win the tdf with it's riders, and had a far greater talent pool to take from. It never came close.

Sky, before people even got used to seeing the jersey, already has 2 tdf winners who won in the 2 most dominant fashions since the tour had single speed bikes, both of whom had been absolute nobodies before, had not worked their way up to contention status, and just happened to come from the teams target country (rabo even by trying Levi, menchov, chicken did not succeed).

Sky simply jumped over, rather than slowly walked through, the rest of the world of cycling, leaving the rest of cycling almost unaffected, and itself and it's own target country, almost like an independent sport with it's own races (tdf contested just between sky riders) own media stories, own ways for measuring greatness in the sport, own ways of assessing the sport.

While the rest of the world moves on as usual, just without the 1st place at the tdf.

But in Britain Murdoch and bskyb finds itself almost as a cartel when it comes to cycling. They hold a position more dominant than there than in tv.

Amazing how lucky this Murdoch is eh. Just happened to stumble across the 2 greatest athletes in history who just happened to come from the generation when he invested in cycling who just happened to be British.

Maybe that's how he succeeded in all his other businesses. He was always willing to bend over backwards while others bent the rules (e.g. not doping at sky while everyone else does) but got really really lucky everytime?

 

[JimmyFingers]

Oh.

So rather than an actual new WT race, we're talking about an aspiration for a prospective race that could never happen, and might not be WT if it does.

That was disappointing.

Doesn't stop the conspiracy theories now does it

 

[gillan1969]

I think you will find the Renault-Elf-Gitane "procession of grand tour winners"
is much more impressive than the two that Team SKY/21st CENTURY FOX/
PINARELLO/RAPHA have won, but perhaps your knowledge of the "history of
trade team grand tour racing" does not extend that far back, my friend.

yup...and perhaps yours doesn't encompass that van impe, hinault and fignon showed world class GT ability from the beginning of their pro careers...rather than than the dubious late flourishing that happens at team sky (through nothing more than avoiding nutella and bringing their own pillows to races)...

 

[red_flanders]

Dan Frost from Saxo joining team Sky:
http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,17546_9066474,00.html

Anyone know anything about him?

 

[JimmyFingers]

He has the most comprehensive collection of GI Joe with the Kung Fu Grip on the planet

 

[sniper]

Dan Frost from Saxo joining team Sky:
http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,17546_9066474,00.html

Anyone know anything about him?

double gold winning track cyclist in the 80s.
Eight seasons DS at saxo, which makes him a leftover from the dark era.
Probably changed his attitudes along the way.
Came in highly recommended, no doubt, but by whom?

I wonder what Saxo accuser Walsh thinks of this appointment.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

double gold winning track cyclist in the 80s.
Eight seasons DS at saxo, which makes him a leftover from the dark era.
Probably changed his attitudes along the way.
Came in highly recommended, no doubt, but by whom?

I wonder what Saxo accuser Walsh thinks of this appointment.

My guess is either Jeppesen or Arvesen. Both have a history with Riis cycling.

Fwiw, I don't think Frost is part of Saxo's dirty setup, but you never know in this game.

 

[Benotti69]

Doesn't stop the conspiracy theories now does it

Most of theories are based on historical fact.

 

[LaFlorecita]

Can't help but notice it's number 2 on the guardian's sports articles.

It's also a totally meaningless story that has nothing to do with sport and would be more at place in a south American midday telenovela for housewives.

Summarised in an unimaginative article that fills word limit by essentially bulletpointing a few well known facts about sky that everyone has heard about 10 million times by now (e.g. Wiggins won the 2012 tour De France)

And that is the 2 nd most popular news story in the guardian.
A newspaper which would sooner fold than offer any real coverage to the rest of the cycling calendar.

Sky's domination of cycling seems to exist purely to give the British media these 2 personalities for this conflict narrative they can pull out of their *** whenever they need a story.
And to give the British public a very patronizing insight into the tdf which is presented as a very minor sporting event to begin with since any meaningless brit can with the upper lip spirit and the Brailsford regime, learn to dominate the sport Usain Bolt style. and which usually takes the form of presenting a century old cycling tactic (e.g. team slipstream) as something invented by sky that gives them an advantage.

But outside the home country hype neither Wiggins nor froome seem to have the same popularity as previous contenders e.g. Contador and Schleck. Contador was massive in Denmark this year, partly because he rode for a Danish team. When he decided to ride the giro 2 years ago that got massive press in Italy throughout the year. By contrast when Wiggins did so this year, even though the British press tried to say that RCS loved Wiggins so much they were making the course especially for him in a desperate attempt to get him to the race, he went in as just another contender like Sastre in 09.

Looking at fans on here (prr section) or Twitter, only a small % of contadors fans are actually Spanish, with the most diehard ones being found in northern Europe and loads scattered across the continent. There was also massive support for schleck that obviously went beyond the small country in which he was a hero in.

By contrast 99% of sky fans are British.

The point being, the way sky has come to dominate the tdf has been so extreme it's had a strange effect on the attitude of cycling fans.

It's not like schleck and contador have great personalities.

Rabobank has been a team for over a decade which also aimed to win the tdf with it's riders, and had a far greater talent pool to take from. It never came close.

Sky, before people even got used to seeing the jersey, already has 2 tdf winners who won in the 2 most dominant fashions since the tour had single speed bikes, both of whom had been absolute nobodies before, had not worked their way up to contention status, and just happened to come from the teams target country (rabo even by trying Levi, menchov, chicken did not succeed).

Sky simply jumped over, rather than slowly walked through, the rest of the world of cycling, leaving the rest of cycling almost unaffected, and itself and it's own target country, almost like an independent sport with it's own races (tdf contested just between sky riders) own media stories, own ways for measuring greatness in the sport, own ways of assessing the sport.

While the rest of the world moves on as usual, just without the 1st place at the tdf.

But in Britain Murdoch and bskyb finds itself almost as a cartel when it comes to cycling. They hold a position more dominant than there than in tv.

Amazing how lucky this Murdoch is eh. Just happened to stumble across the 2 greatest athletes in history who just happened to come from the generation when he invested in cycling who just happened to be British.

Maybe that's how he succeeded in all his other businesses. He was always willing to bend over backwards while others bent the rules (e.g. not doping at sky while everyone else does) but got really really lucky everytime?

Great post Hitch. Spot on imo

 

[Ferminal]

KAA may yet go down the gurgler if this Danish NADO actually got people talking.

BTW what reputation did Fakta have back in the day? I just realised Uncle Kim was in charge there... Plenty went on to ride/manage at Riis, was Andersen more influential than Bjarne?

 

[oldcrank]

yup...and perhaps yours doesn't encompass that van impe, hinault and fignon showed world class GT ability from the beginning of their pro careers...rather than than the dubious late flourishing that happens at team sky (through nothing more than avoiding nutella and bringing their own pillows to races)...

My friend, I have said Renault/Elf/Gitane were "impressive", it is the arguments
of DirtyWorks, Benotti69, and FearlessGregLemond that have belittled their
palmares. I have cast no stone of doubt at their accomplishments in my
comment that you quoted, where as the posts of DirtyWorks, Benotti69
and FearlessGregLemond have. I think your argument is with them, my
friend, and not me.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

KAA may yet go down the gurgler if this Danish NADO actually got people talking.

BTW what reputation did Fakta have back in the day? I just realised Uncle Kim was in charge there... Plenty went on to ride/manage at Riis, was Andersen more influential than Bjarne?

Arvesen was part of Riis's A-team imo and I think he knows who the dirty boys are at Riis' old setup.

Fakta was probably team doping with very little cash.

Kim Andersen was/is very close to JB territory imo. Still operates an A-Team.

 

[oldcrank]

Dan Frost from Saxo joining team Sky:
http://www.teamsky.com/article/0,27290,17546_9066474,00.html
Anyone know anything about him?

I saw him win his Rainbow Bands in 86 at COS
back when the Worlds were Pro and Amateur
with road and track the same time and place.

 

[sniper]

...

also take a minute to think about those who actively enable a team like Sky to rule and conquer. World champions calling Sky clean are JV, Millar and Walsh, i.e. the ones who the mainstream fan believes are at the forefront of cleaning up cycling. Now Cookson in charge.
Not looking bright.

 

[The Hitch]

What does JV have to do with it?

 

[the sceptic]

also take a minute to think about those who actively enable a team like Sky to rule and conquer. World champions calling Sky clean are JV, Millar and Walsh, i.e. the ones who the mainstream fan believes are at the forefront of cleaning up cycling. Now Cookson in charge.
Not looking bright.

You gotta stop obsessing over JV in every thread, its getting pathetic.

I havent seen JV shouting from the rooftops lately about how clean he tinks sky are. To the contrary he has pretty much avoided the subject ever since the tour as far as I can tell. So he is basically the same as every other DS in the peloton.

Yes, some more scepticism would be nice but this is pro cycling. Im sure every DS in the peloton was think WTF is going on during the tour, and the other riders must know that sky are putting out some insane power. Yet no one talks. So you cant blame JV for being the only fence sitter around.

Walsh and Millar are just super biased fanboys, if not them there would be others trying to leech on.

 

[The Hitch]

And Millar is so easily discredited, he wouldn't survive 2 seconds in an argument with someone who knows what they are talking about.

Its all well and good giving monologues about how he wants to be UCI President on the bbc, or writing on twitter that no one can appreciate how hard Sky train, he has seen them, if he ever gets into a room with someone who knows anything about doping here is what will happen.

person x: David, you say you know Sky are "100% clean". do you remember when you said you knew Alberto Contador was clean even after he tested positive

"Does anybody out there seriously doubt that Contador was riding clean in the Giro d'Italia that has just finished? You don't win the biggest races in the world with such clockwork regularity and comparative ease, and in such style, by not being the supreme talent and clean. In my experience the profile of a doper is always much more erratic and unpredictable.”

DM: ummmm...

Person x: and do you remember when you defended Piepoli as clean

DM: well...

Person x: and do you remember what you said when Floyd Landis spoke out about Lance?

DM: I encourgaed it

Person X: No

"He's reached the end of the road and I just find it disgusting," said Millar from his home training base in Girona, Spain. "He has nothing left in cycling so he just wants to burn the house down.

Yeah, im not going to take your word for it David. Learn from your mistakes.