Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[gooner]

That si why I created my "Chris squared" thread. It was ridiculous seeing people act outraged about Horner while two months earlier they were making excuses for Froome. The clowns at Bike *** were especially comical.

Calling guys *** for not agreeing with you now. Classy. Thanks for proving my point for the reason you set up that thread. Along with that thread and you wanting others to dope for the entertainment to level off the competition against Sky, we need more of the brilliant logic that you possess.

 

[martinvickers]

One might conclude it's prejudice, not bigotry...if one is going to use precisely defined terms...also, one might conclude that a pair of pliers might remove that hook from your mouth.

One might conclude its both. Prejudice is the symptom. Bigotry is the cause.

 

[martinvickers]

Why would anyone want to watch a sport dominated by one team of dopers? If there is going to be massive rider transformations from doping then the least we can hope for is more teams to do it so there will be some sort of vague entertainment value.

So "I hate doping...so I want more of it."

Yes. Absolutely believable and coherent. The only logical conclusion is you don't mind doping. You just don't like who's currently winning, and are pretending that dislike is a moral position rather than a basic bias.

fair enough, so.

 

[martinvickers]

Especially when that team of dopers has a cheering section that is filled with people who slang massive amounts of mud when the Union Jack wasn't the flag flying over the team. Now these same people have become experts on obfuscation and denial. I wasn't really all that bothered after the Tour because it's a common phenomenon, but when this Chorus took up the charge to throw stones at Horner, it became too much to bear.

Maybe it isn't even prejudice. Maybe it is the same sickness of feeling I had for Armstrong fans: I detest hypocrisy, and nobody does it better than Sky fans...

Seriously. You detest hypocrisy?

Mirror, mirror...

 

[roundabout]

No, I didn't.



He still used del Moral. Same with Lance in 2005 after he was supposed to have dropped Ferrari. Lance had knowledge too. You still need expertise. I don't deny Sky could be doing something on the side.

Regarding Sky, Farrell had little or no dealings with Leinders before taking over the main doctor role for the 2012 Tour onwards.

Ah, so Sky is comparable to a rider with GED.

I hope they have not forgotten how to handle saddle sores when they "fired" Leinders.

 

[martinvickers]

Beautiful post. That was an intellectual @ss-handing...

Wow, you are easy pleased. and easy fooled.

 

[Col Okey]

Favourable parcors?

What you mean all those tt kilometers?

I wonder who would be the winner of the race if you take away all 3 time trial results and just look at the road stages.

Oh look. Still Bradley Wiggins

Ok so Wiggins won both long TT's and was the second best climber (behind his own teammate no less) but the route was still favourable, now should Wiggins be winning a Tour so easily even with a favourable route? of course not. Should he be winning at all? again no but I still think the route makes his win, for me, slightly less incredible.

 

[badboygolf16v]

Back to the "favourable parcours" thing, I'd like to point out I totally called it at the time.

More favourable than 2006..?

TdF 2012 - GPM # climbs UC:6, 1:11, 2:8 - BW GC: +0.00.00.
TdF 2006 - GPM # climbs UC:7, 1:8, 2:8 - BW GC: +3.25.32

All part of the Sky bunkum.

 

[Catwhoorg]

One example of money affecting things:

British cycling had invested in 20 ish, mile to mile and a half traffic free loops throughout the country for safer places for adults kids to ride and race by 2012. I understand they plan on doubling that during this Olympic cycle.

Will not obviously do a thing for current riders, but in a "fill the pipeline for future talent", it should be helping. we shall see in another decade or so.

Other nations (Netherlands, Belgium spring to mind) may not need this due to much better infrastructure for cycling generally.

 

[BroDeal]

So "I hate doping...so I want more of it."

Yes. Absolutely believable and coherent. The only logical conclusion is you don't mind doping. You just don't like who's currently winning, and are pretending that dislike is a moral position rather than a basic bias.

fair enough, so.

Nice strawman. Those seem to be your specialty.

We need to face reality. The battle against doping has been lost. There might have been a chance of change when the wolves were circling around Armstrong, but those at Sky decided to take things to a new level. When clowns like Walsh showed their true colors and the rest of those in the media fell over themselves to gush about how this time it is different, it showed that all hope was lost. Some who ostensibly cared about doping turned out to only be interested in how holding such a position could benefit them. They switched allegiances as quickly as they recognized they could be rewarded for holding an opposite position. Others did all they could to whitewash past doping, feigned sorrow about the Armstrong era, and proceeded to whitewash the current doping. There cannot be any just progress in such a corrupt system.

The best we can hope for is an environment that allows everyone to dope without being singled out as the UCI and WADA's whipping boy. We cannot have a sport where one team plus a small handful of riders from other teams are allowed to crank it up to eleven while everyone else is at seven trying walk the line between being scapegoated and keeping their jobs. There is no entertainment value with such lopsided competition. It is time to start acting like sensible sports and pretend that doping is not a problem.

Bring back Ricco and DiLuca. Let's get it on.

 

[pastronef]

about riders washing their hands...

http://instagram.com/p/kMGZ5hpRpa/#

 

[gooner]

You say below:

There might have been a chance of change when the wolves were circling around Armstrong, but those at Sky decided to take things to a new level.

And then say this.

Bring back Ricco and DiLuca. Let's get it on.

Their doping preceded Sky's introduction.

 

[ebandit]

ta very

The battle against doping has been lost.

thanks! for letting us all know............................sounds clever of course
even if you just made it up

we will need to wait another few years to see if talk of a cleaner sport passes the test of time

or will we see more retrospective stripping of wins

Mark L

 

[Benotti69]

Uli Fluhme ‏@ulif 6h
I received Tramadol after an operation to cope w pain. I've never used drugs. Happy and pain free. Race on this? Scary.

With stuff like Tramadol blurring the lines in the sport, where do riders know when and where they cross it with guys like Leinders/Ibagaurun working with teams.

 

[The Hitch]

One example of money affecting things:

British cycling had invested in 20 ish, mile to mile and a half traffic free loops throughout the country for safer places for adults kids to ride and race by 2012. I understand they plan on doubling that during this Olympic cycle.

Will not obviously do a thing for current riders, but in a "fill the pipeline for future talent", it should be helping. we shall see in another decade or so.

Other nations (Netherlands, Belgium spring to mind) may not need this due to much better infrastructure for cycling generally.

And between them Netherlands and Belgium have not won a gt in 3 decades, or to rephrase, 0 of the last 100gts (101 gts ago joop won) Such programmes increase the number of cyclists who might turn pro and that's fine. They don't increase the watt/kg to the mid sixes.

 

[The Hitch]

Wow, you are easy pleased. and easy fooled.

I see rather than responding to my post, offering any counterobservations or anything of substance, you take the the backdoor insults route.

My post just offered an argument and pointed out to you that every tdf is missing multiple favourites. There was absolutely nothing there to warrant the above attack.

If you think there was something wrong with my post, respond to it, rather than pretending to be
above responce which fools no one.

Prime example of a poster taking a discussion personal purely because they don't like the other opinion.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Then you're not in a position to decry it with Sky.

I actually think the Contador reference is a legit one. I can't remember anyone saying similar about wanting other riders to dope when he was hitting it off.

I'm in a position to decry anything I want. We're all hypocrites sweetie, I embrace it. I just detest those who are such and pretend differently. If they'd just be honest about the fact that their blinded support revolves around flags and sh!t, I'd be fine with it, but they don't. They pretend to be dispassioned observers of reality...and well, nothing could be further from the truth.

Cheers as they say.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

One might conclude its both. Prejudice is the symptom. Bigotry is the cause.

One might suggest you look up the definition of bigotry...and prejudice... For a man who relies on precisely defined words in his profession, I would have expected more. The reality is that it's neither. I specifically dislike the Sky blinded posters here and the team itself. England and that smaller island are fine places filled with some interesting people. I love the English and all of their Leprechaun and pot of gold stuff, and the Irish and all that Braveheart and kangaroo stuff. Jolly good show mate. Throw another potato on the barby!

Full definition of bigot:

a person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

You have the symptom and the disease reversed. You really aren't very good at things like this, are you? Prejudice can exist without bigotry, but not the other way around.

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Seriously. You detest hypocrisy?

Mirror, mirror...

I should have been more clear. I detest those who are blind to their hypocrisy (and Team Sky). We're all hypocrites. It's only those who refuse to accept such that I really despise. Thanks for helping me clear that up.

Did the hook come out ok?

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Wow, you are easy pleased. and easy fooled.

Oh no, he completely handed you your a$$.

 

[ChrisE]

My own opinion, ie merely a view or hunch is that corrupt officials do not really care who pays them, just as long as they are paid. And they are more interested in protecting the 'brand', so any big name if caught and they could get them out of a jam they would. (like Condator in 2010)

So, admittedly the whole argument you put forth for pages and pages a few years ago was BS. If it wasn't on the front page of Le Monde, then it didn't happen.

Welcome to reality.

 

[gooner]

I'm in a position to decry anything I want.

To me you're not, based on what you just said. You're justifying the use of doping. That's grand if you want to be that way, just don't be outraged about it if Sky get popped in the future. Do and you'll be reminded of the absurd position you express now.

We're all hypocrites sweetie, I embrace it. I just detest those who are such and pretend differently. If they'd just be honest about the fact that their blinded support revolves around flags and sh!t, I'd be fine with it, but they don't. They pretend to be dispassioned observers of reality...and well, nothing could be further from the truth.

Cheers as they say.

No, don't put this nonsense on all as some justification. Not everyone wants Contador, Nibali, Horner and co. to be doped to the gills because of Sky's dominance. And that's even if they're up to their eyeballs themselves at it.

You jumped the fence baby.

 

[MarkvW]

He was a back of the pack chump. Brailsfraud himself rated Froome as the worst rider on the team and someone who was barely adequate for domestique duty at the World Tour level.

Thanks for the info.

 

[BroDeal]

Thanks for the info.

Actually I misremembered. Brailsfraud actually rated Froome (CF) as below the level required for World Tour domestique.

 

[Dr. Maserati]

So, admittedly the whole argument you put forth for pages and pages a few years ago was BS. If it wasn't on the front page of Le Monde, then it didn't happen.

Welcome to reality.

Hi Chris.
It gives me great pleasure reading your post.
No, of course it wasn't BS. The UCI will always try to protect the brand, and make it equally easy so that people don't get caught.
With Armstrong they also took payment - a nice addition that no other rider has been shown to have got.
You are more than welcome to show otherwise - in the appropriate thread of course.