red_flanders said:
One need not have proof to form an opinion, nor have I ever seen anyone claim they have proof of Sky doping.
If you need proof to form an opinion, it's not an opinion, it's simply recognition of facts. So what you're essentially saying here is that having an opinion equals being a lynch mob. That's dumb.
If fence-sitting is the way you want to go about thinking about things, that's fine for you, simply state such and move on. It's ridiculous however to criticize others for forming opinions based on the existing evidence. Forming an opinion based on inconclusive evidence is how most people operate to get through every day. We all make decisions based on incomplete evidence.
As has been said a million times in this thread and outlined in the thread you claim not to want to read, proof is a standard called for when the consequences are sanctions, loss of liberty or loss of privilege.
It is decidedly not the standard for forming an opinion.
I have no problems with opinions at all, based on whatever evidence, anecdotes or rumours, as long as it is presented as opinion. However many, many times rather people saying they think Sky may be doping they say I know Sky are doping, that they are certain, that there is no need for proof, they can see it, they are certain. The Hitch recently posted an over-long and typically bombastic post outlining why he knew Sky was doping and how he felt people that didn't agree were idiots.
That's what I dislike. I also dislike the constant sniping of people that don't share that opinion, and consistent and unpleasant attempts to undermine and belittle people that hold that opinion through mockery, sarcasm and condescencion.
I don't know anything for certain in regards to Sky or any other team for that matter. I base my opinion on the information I garner like other people, however I won't come out with some definitive statement. I'll say I hope Wiggins is clean, or I think Sky don't have a team-wide doping programme. I've also frequently said the truth will out, we know for sure eventually.
Until then I'm not prepared to condemn athletes as cheats until I am sure they are. I don't play games in here: I don't support Sky while slamming Contador as a doper for example. Personally I've never understood the grief I get in here for holding that view, why people are so offended that I'm not prepared to jump on that lynch mob, and so resort to dismissing my opinion as blind fanboyism, or most recently nationalism. That isn't how I tick, and I get very fed up with people trying to explain my motives to me. You don't know me, don't tell me how I am thinking, or why. And don't insult me simply because I am not saying the same things as you are.
(that last bit isn't really directed at you red_flanders, I can't remember you baiting or mocking me to any sort of extreme).