Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[pastronef]

Those Sky fans who do come in here, is because they are fighting their own inner truths that Sky must be doping to win in a sport that has an ingrained doping culture where all those that enabled and more importantly feed of that culture have not gone away.

wow
as I said before, everyone has his favourite doped rider or team. Nibali's fans, Bertie-Flo fans , Quintana and Valverde fans.
I am not fighting any inner truth. and I never said they are clean.

I like team Sky, I was shouting at the telly today when EBH was 4th behind the katusha boys, 500m to go, before he got dropped. if he weren't wearing a Sky jersey, I wouldn't have been there 50 cm from the tv hoping he could hold on.
why? partly because of the Clinic and Twitter. I would've loved to see the poor Edvald finally win something in a Sky jersey. but as usual he let everybody down.

I always said DB and his guys have been dumb enough to get themselves in a corner with the ZeroTolerance, the sacking of Julich and so on.

and I could understand how they are seen here and on twitter. Katusha and Astana never blabbered about ZTP and other things (their owners and sponsor don't care)
For Sky it is different. the top brass at BSkyB and the British public could accept a team just with those conditions.
so the poster who know a bit more than me about the hidden things and the procycling world, are quite angry at them.
maybe I made i mistake in following pro-cycling for entertainment (that's what it is)

I root for Sky because it is funny to see how EVERY word anyone (any rider or staff, or any forum user) is remembered and analyzed and set in stone for future quotes

a few days ago someone told me I was a Sky fan before last winter (I posted something along the line... f"rom this year I cheer more for them because they are struggling...") it sounded like I was caught doing something wrong. "hey, you were a fan BEFORE the day you are saying in your post!"

that's what strange here.

 

[William H]

Wiggins looks about as strong as he was last year, really. Just with lesser expectations and a different race mix.

 

[stutue]

I'm not a Sky fan. I'm not a Sky hater either. People can hold whatever opinions they want in either direction, I really don't care that much about it. In all honesty I'd rather talk about other stuff but every time I click on the 'new posts' button its these threads that pop up.

I've read some very well argued, interesting and informative posts here against Sky, and of course I'm not going to argue against them if I think they are reasonably sound.

Some of what gets posted here is fair game though and it's a bit pathetic when certain posters ( invariably the ones with nothing to say) start bleating and slinging around accusations of trolling, 'obfuscation' and so on.

By the way, what on hells earth is "vortexing"???

 

[DirtyWorks]

It does seem that those riders who were having bad years in the last few years are now back to previous levels and looking good again... AC, Cuddles, Wiggins, et al

But, put those recent results in context of the last two years of Sky's dominance in any stage race. AC did well, but for Sky making the peloton look like Sky are visiting the local cafe run.

For whatever reason, 2014 did not start like 2012 or 2013 for Sky. It is May and at least Wiggo and mystery-man Froome are finally top-ranking again.

July seems set to be ridiculous with a twist of Dawg-Wiggo drama.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Which face it, you'll love

 

[DirtyWorks]

Which face it, you'll love

If Brailsford can't keep peace on the team bus, then it will be the only interesting thing going on for three weeks.


Changing the subject a little: do you really think at this point Sky could not-win? Well, they could. But it would have to be an EPIC fail. That would be interesting too.

 

[BYOP88]

If Brailsford can't keep peace on the team bus, then it will be the only interesting thing going on for three weeks.


Changing the subject a little: do you really think at this point Sky could not-win? Well, they could. But it would have to be an EPIC fail. That would be interesting too.

It would be interesting if they didn't win. I'm guessing if that happened(unlikely) their fans here will be crying because a 'doper' beat their guy(s).

 

[JimmyFingers]

I don't think it's a given at all they'll win. The 2012 TdF was pretty chaotic, Kiryenka missing the time, Porte losing minutes, generally unable to boss the peloton too much, teams like Movistar looking very strong and very organised. Froome was simply too strong to be denied, despite that all. And Sky have looked distinctly human this season, either because everyone else is stronger, or they aren't as good.

Contador is going to be very aggressive and hard to beat, Quintana could challenge properly, Valverde has looked very good. Nibali hasn't yet, but should find some form.

The TdF is a bit of a circus anyway, I live for the spring classics. Although the pave stage should be good

 

[JimmyFingers]

It would be interesting if they didn't win. I'm guessing if that happened(unlikely) their fans here will be crying because a 'doper' beat their guy(s).

Ironic, given by clinic logic whoever beats them must be doped to the absolute gills, so you'll all be crying doper too surely, or does whoever beats them get a free pass?

 

[pastronef]

Ironic, given by clinic logic whoever beats them must be doped to the absolute gills, so you'll all be crying doper too surely, or does whoever beats them get a free pass?

this.
thanks Jimmy.

 

[BYOP88]

Ironic, given by clinic logic whoever beats them must be doped to the absolute gills, so you'll all be crying doper too surely, or does whoever beats them get a free pass?

I guess it will be the only time you'll agree with it("clinic logic") Jimmy. I have no doubt that if Piti won the Tour you'd be calling him a doper, yet if Froome wins in your mind he'll be clean and Piti will still be a doper.

 

[Digger]

I don't think it's a given at all they'll win. The 2012 TdF was pretty chaotic, Kiryenka missing the time, Porte losing minutes, generally unable to boss the peloton too much, teams like Movistar looking very strong and very organised. Froome was simply too strong to be denied, despite that all. And Sky have looked distinctly human this season, either because everyone else is stronger, or they aren't as good.

Contador is going to be very aggressive and hard to beat, Quintana could challenge properly, Valverde has looked very good. Nibali hasn't yet, but should find some form.

The TdF is a bit of a circus anyway, I live for the spring classics. Although the pave stage should be good

..........

 

[BYOP88]

this.
thanks Jimmy.

Cool!!! "circular backslaps" are back.

 

[JimmyFingers]

I guess it will be the only time you'll agree with it("clinic logic") Jimmy. I have no doubt that if Piti won the Tour you'd be calling him a doper, yet if Froome wins in your mind he'll be clean and Piti will still be a doper.

How on earth do you have no doubt that is what I will be thinking? Point me to posts where I've complained about riders winning and calling them dopers? Particularly when they've beaten Sky riders? And point me to a post where I've said Froome is clean?

When I write things you clearly don't read them, and simply put in their place what you want me to be saying. It is an utter misrepresentation of my beliefs and the way I watch and relate to the sport, but the spin/strawman is the lazy way you can turn around and attack me, rather than engaging me in intelligent, measured debate.

 

[JimmyFingers]

..........

Ha, oops, my bad, but you knew the one I meant. The 2012 was the polar opposite, that was all about team power.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Cool!!! "circular backslaps" are back.

It doesn't sound as cool when you say it. Sorry 'bout that

 

[BYOP88]

How on earth do you have no doubt that is what I will be thinking? Point me to posts where I've complained about riders winning and calling them dopers? Particularly when they've beaten Sky riders? And point me to a post where I've said Froome is clean?

When I write things you clearly don't read them, and simply put in their place what you want me to be saying. It is an utter misrepresentation of my beliefs and the way I watch and relate to the sport, but the spin/strawman is the lazy way you can turn around and attack me, rather than engaging me in intelligent, measured debate.

Ironic, given by clinic logic whoever beats them must be doped to the absolute gills, so you'll all be crying doper too surely, or does whoever beats them get a free pass?

It doesn't sound as cool when you say it. Sorry 'bout that

Damn!! Not cool enough for Jimmy.

 

[pastronef]

Cool!!! "circular backslaps" are back.

well, I just would like to see the same anger directed to Bertie or Valverde if they win.
I repeat again, I don't believe Sky are clean, I just prefer them over other dopers.

 

[BYOP88]

well, I just would like to see the same anger directed to Bertie or Valverde if they win.
I repeat again, I don't believe Sky are clean, I just prefer them over other dopers.

Well if it helps I dislike Dirty Bertie and Piti, so I wont be dancing in the street if they win the Tour.

Hey I don't care if you root for Sky or not, not an issue for me and never has been. My issue is when people root for 'random team/rider' and declare they are clean etc but will dog pile on someone else, but suspend the logic they use to defend 'random team/rider' whilst attacking others.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Damn!! Not cool enough for Jimmy.

Wow, just neatly side-stepped making a coherent point again. But never tell me how I think or how I'll react in any given situation, it's a childish, negative approach to debate. You need to work on saying things that are more than throwaway, sneering soundbites because you want to be like hog.

And I'm still waiting for any examples you can find.

 

[BYOP88]

Wow, just neatly side-stepped making a coherent point again. But never tell me how I think or how I'll react in any given situation, it's a childish, negative approach to debate. You need to work on saying things that are more than throwaway, sneering soundbites because you want to be like hog.

And I'm still waiting for any examples you can find.

Maybe you should practice what you preach.

but the spin/strawman is the lazy way you can turn around and attack me, rather than engaging me in intelligent, measured debate.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Still waiting

 

[BYOP88]

Still waiting

You want a cookie?

 

[Archibald]

But, put those recent results in context of the last two years of Sky's dominance in any stage race. AC did well, but for Sky making the peloton look like Sky are visiting the local cafe run.

For whatever reason, 2014 did not start like 2012 or 2013 for Sky. It is May and at least Wiggo and mystery-man Froome are finally top-ranking again.

July seems set to be ridiculous with a twist of Dawg-Wiggo drama.

not sure its so much of sky not doing as well, but others certainly came out swinging - exhibit A: AC's Tirreno-A after being pretty ordinary the previous year. He only managed 1 stage last year and in st luis of all places.
Then again, is it him improving this year or everyone else falling back? And that would need to be 'everyone', not just sky, no?

Perhaps sky have backed off from the kerrison 'plan' of being up there all year to avoid similar flack to the past years. I'm dubious about Porte's run-in to his "missed" Giro -something didn't seem right about all that... saving him for the tour after AC's muscle flexing?

 

[Benotti69]

not sure its so much of sky not doing as well, but others certainly came out swinging - exhibit A: AC's Tirreno-A after being pretty ordinary the previous year. He only managed 1 stage last year and in st luis of all places.
Then again, is it him improving this year or everyone else falling back? And that would need to be 'everyone', not just sky, no?

Perhaps sky have backed off from the kerrison 'plan' of being up there all year to avoid similar flack to the past years. I'm dubious about Porte's run-in to his "missed" Giro -something didn't seem right about all that... saving him for the tour after AC's muscle flexing?

Sky have no need to back off if everything is 'cleans', so if they are backing off, that points to doping.

I dont think Piti looks like he is falling back.