Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[thehog]

I get it. You're butt-hurt that a Sky are a bunch of lying dopers.

I don't have to defend anything about the saying. This thread isn't about defending the use of "drank the Kool-Aid." It's about Sky. We have rules here at cyclingnews forums, obey them please.

I think you'd make a good mod!

 

[ChewbaccaD]

I think you'd make a good mod!

Susan has never agreed, and I agree with her.

 

[sniper]

I get it. You're butt-hurt that a Sky are a bunch of lying dopers.

I don't have to defend anything about the saying. This thread isn't about defending the use of "drank the Kool-Aid." It's about Sky. We have rules here at cyclingnews forums, obey them please.

I think you'd make a good mod!

Chewbaccad after a good solo run on the right with the perfect cross into the box, where thehog is left unmarked to slot home from close range!

 

[wrinklyvet]

I get it. You're butt-hurt that a Sky are a bunch of lying dopers.

I don't have to defend anything about the saying. This thread isn't about defending the use of "drank the Kool-Aid." It's about Sky. We have rules here at cyclingnews forums, obey them please.

Sorry you don't feel able to answer. My only point is that I think about the poor people rather than what you were trying to say. Have a Happy new Year!

 

[ChewbaccaD]

Sorry you don't feel able to answer. My only point is that I think about the poor people rather than what you were trying to say. Have a Happy new Year!

Then you must have a very confusing life trying to discern the implications of colloquial terms, when all you can think about is the underlying basis for said term...

But I just broke my rule, lets talk about Sky, shall we?

 

[wrinklyvet]

Wrinkly you are trying to run away from your false position. Nowhere do I say Brailsford is incompetent. I believe entirely the opposite. You stated the following was true

"Wasn't JTL busted because his pre Sky blood readings were anomalous given the baseline subsequently established when he was tested more regularly whilst at Sky?"

Other posters have once again..........

[I dread to think how many times the "JTL went on Sky camps early in the season and worked with the BC/Sky coaches that year" facts have been reeled out when yet another skybot has posted "JTL was nothing to do with Sky, Sky's wonderful super team found him out - aren't they brilliant at anti-doping - therefore Froome must be the best rider ever in the history of cycling" ] ................pointed out the factual position.

I agree it doesn't matter what we think but it is entirely impossible to hold simultaneously, two mutually exclusive concepts and be of sound mind. You seem to want to do that.

I don't for a moment think Brailsford is stupid. Therefore I don't doubt that he had exactly the same doubts about the veracity of JTL's performance as so many of us did that year. But the critical thing is you and I are not paid £600k or more a year to manage the clean Sky team. Brailsford is.

The first bit of BS was "our systems worked". Next line was "he did it with Endura". Only a fool swallows those two in the face of the facts.

What am I supposed to argue with? You are making a big meal of this.

 

[thehog]

Regading JTL - non disclosure agreement.

Like everyone else on the staff - same with the likes of Julich et al...

Was reading about Thomas Lovkvist today about how he thought Kerrrison's training was a joke and he went backwards with it - amazing how this guy's genius training methods only seem to work for........no one.

Froome largely ignored Kerrison.

Kerrison is only a cover up, an excuse for their improvement - not one thing sky do regarding training hasn't been done elsewhere.

But the story is selling, to the general public that is - to the seasoned fans, then we all know it's rubbish.

Some things I had forgotten - like how Fran Millar was telling me they didn't know about Leinders - yet I did a google search in May 2012 and found it - an excerpt of an autobiography where he was named.

So the marginal gains team didn't even manage a google search!! Or to ask the former Rabobank riders who were then on the Sky roster.

I ask anyone...if Sky are clean, how are they beating doped riders? When, in all fairness to any pro, they are all talented....the marginal gains aren't gains because others are doing them...they haven't signed the best riders - I mean their current best rider was barely a journeyman domestique.

Walsh writes page upon page about their marginal gains but then accepts that he doesn't know what goes on with other teams.

I know one journalist in 2012 who was told to write positive or come home (not kimmage or walsh)
I have been told that Brailsford has tried to bully editors.

We know that Yates and Sky have changed their story about why he left.

We know that Brailsford used the excuse of Txema to justify Leinders - which was awful...yet Walsh denied this ever happened...

As for Wiggins - the way he has achieved what he has disgusts him.

Froome...god knows what he'll do or say next....I don't think it's because he's necessarily a maverick or hard to handle, but down to a serious lack of intelligence...

I see in 2011 Vuelta he asked Lovkvist with 150km to go if another team would attack on the next climb - Lovkvist laughed at the ridiculousness of it - and this was apparently the new improved Froome with tactical know how...

Why do well educated people drink Diet Pepsi or Diet Coke believing its healthy?

In the same manner which many smart people will trick their own minds into believing Sky (Garmin) are clean. Its just better that way... sometimes.

And Froome hasn't beaten Nibali in a GT since 2012

 

[Granville57]

This thread isn't about defending the use of "drank the Kool-Aid." It's about Sky.

But no one besides you has ever used that phrase on the internet. Ever.
You deviant American, you.




Well, unless you consider 17 pages of examples from this tiny, little corner of the interwebz.
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/search.php?searchid=2920742

Here are just a few from 2012.

The comments of the Kool Aid drinkers are quite embarrassing.

I think you are missing some details. Good on ya for drinking the kool aide. Living in your world feels good

That was what did it.....EPO positives from 1999 revealed. Before that I was still drinking the Kool Aid

OMG what a joke they are. All of them. How much kool aid does one need to drink to be so pathetic

Another koolaid drinker that didn't get the memo.

I'm not drinking that Kool-Aid.

On Planet Lance, Pat and Hein drank lots of the Kool-Aid.

I have re-built more Zipp wheels than most. my shop being in Indy. They are everything the author says except count on replacing the bearings every year. I have taken tours of their facilities three times, last time last year. Beware. There is a kool aid jug in every room.

JV needs to stop drinking the the UCI Kool-aid.......

These arguments about 'not proof' seem so very familiar to the old 'not proof' statements the Armstrong kool aid drinkers used to put out.

I wouldn't be surprised the next liestrong summit ends in Cancer Jesus and his followers drinking from a vat of yellow kool-aid, and going off to Livestrong heaven.

All of the attendees enjoyed some kool-aid beforehand.

sounds like he already has a mouth full of Kool-aid

LOLOLO1!1 You really think a country with 15x the funding as anyone else could win 70% of the events AT THEIR OWN GAMES>!?! yeah yeah pass the kool aid

Full on Battleship Galac-tard. What the heck are they putting in the Kool-aid?

well .. I could say you guys are drinking the same toxic kool-aid as the Armstrong "supporters"

I find the psychological examination of Kool Aid drinkers fascinating

But he got a lot of people drinking the Kool-Aid of his absolute awesomeness, and they unquestioningly bought it hook, line and sinker.

And the winner is...

We understand, the Kool-Aid you drink is yellow......... (they even gave it a name, Michelob Ultra)

LOL

 

[wrinklyvet]

But no one besides you has ever used that phrase on the internet. Ever.
You deviant American, you.




Well, unless you consider 17 pages of examples from this tiny, little corner of the interwebz.
http://forum.cyclingnews.com/search.php?searchid=2920742

Here are just a few from 2012.



And the winner is...
LOL

Are you sure you are not compounding the hijacking of this thread?

The point about the common (I know) American (yes) expression is that it is bizarrely and uniquely unpleasant. As a metaphor it doesn't travel overseas well. That's my opinion. I expressed it and that is the end of it.

 

[Granville57]

...and that is the end of it.

Well, before "ending" it, you might want to consider the fact that plenty of the above examples, (including the winner!) are not American.

So there's that.

 

[wrinklyvet]

Well, before "ending" it, you might want to consider the fact that plenty of the above examples, (including the winner!) are not American.

So there's that.

Yes, that's that. I must be wrong. It has spread like a horrible plague.

 

[thehog]

Yes, that's that. I must be wrong. It has spread like a horrible plague.

This will keep you happy...

http://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2012/11/stop-saying-drink-the-kool-aid/264957/

Both beverages were there

Third, plenty of evidence suggests that both Kool-Aid and Flavor Aid were present at Jonestown -- though there was more of the latter. Therefore, in a sense, everybody's right. It may simply come down to whether the term "Kool-Aid" is catchier than "Flavor Aid," and history decided -- much to the consternation of Kool-Aid's marketing department.

Today, the phrase "drink the Kool-Aid" is firmly entrenched in popular language, although the evidence suggests that it should more realistically be either "drink the Flavor Aid/Kool Aid mix" or the even less-catchy suggestion by Al Tompkins of Poynter: "[drink the] grape-flavored drink mix laced with poison." I think this linguistic horse has left the barn, quenching our thirst for metaphors with it. "OH YEAH!"

 

[Netserk]

Yes, that's that. I must be wrong. It has spread like a horrible plague.

Are you saying that we Continentals have drunk the Kool-Aid²?

 

[Granville57]

It has spread like a horrible plague.

You must be referring to Team Sky's training methods that, according to Team Sky, all the other teams are now copying.


Which brings us back on topic for this thread!

 

[wrinklyvet]

You must be referring to Team Sky's training methods that, according to Team Sky, all the other teams are now copying.


Which brings us back on topic for this thread!

An amusing return to the subject!

P.S. Thanks for that other link. Interesting.

 

[Nicko.]

?..

Was reading about Thomas Lovkvist today about how he thought Kerrrison's training was a joke and he went backwards with it - amazing how this guy's genius training methods only seem to work for........no one.

...

Can someone please get this guy talking.
Besides (behind) EBH, he was refered to as the 'future' of cycling by DB (and BW!?!)
He towed BW around France in 2010, finishing 17th (ahead of BW).
When it finally was his turn, Vuelta 2010, the team implodes...

Enter Leinders... the rest is history.
Thomas never recovers, improves or contributes after that while the 'pocket' takes off into the SKY.

He's off any contractual obligations now and should want to talk if he knows something AND is clean. If he's cleans, well we won't hear much.

Can a real reporter ASK him?

 

[burning]

I recall that the combination of overtraining at FDJ and Sky killed his career. It is certain that Leinders did not help for his cause.

 

[sniper]

Can someone please get this guy talking.
Besides (behind) EBH, he was refered to as the 'future' of cycling by DB (and BW!?!)
He towed BW around France in 2010, finishing 17th (ahead of BW).
When it finally was his turn, Vuelta 2010, the team implodes...

Enter Leinders... the rest is history.
Thomas never recovers, improves or contributes after that while the 'pocket' takes off into the SKY.

He's off any contractual obligations now and should want to talk if he knows something AND is clean. If he's cleans, well we won't hear much.

Can a real reporter ASK him?

good post,
and you're making an important distinction between dirty, cleans, and clean, whereby indeed, if anybody, only the truly clean ones are likely to talk (in the absence of a positive test that is).

 

[bobbins]

Dave B seems to forget that he;
Hired Leinders
Hired Yates
Hired Julich
Hired De Jongh
Hired Rogers
Had the UCIs one man TUE panel backdate a TUE and rush through Froomes TUE
He also had Hayles go over 50% Hct at BC
Had an athlete pulled from Athens due to reasons currently not widely known
Rumours of 3 missed ooc tests abound too
So what is this all about?
http://t.co/m14zgGv9VL

Selective amnesia must be exacerbated by cortisone use!

 

[TailWindHome]

Had the UCIs one man TUE panel backdate a TUE and rush through Froomes TUE

You've referred to this before, which I read as a seperate TUE from Froome's
Can you clarify what this was about?

 

[Bexon30]

Dave B seems to forget that he;
Hired Leinders
Hired Yates
Hired Julich
Hired De Jongh
Hired Rogers
Had the UCIs one man TUE panel backdate a TUE and rush through Froomes TUE
He also had Hayles go over 50% Hct at BC
Had an athlete pulled from Athens due to reasons currently not widely known
Rumours of 3 missed ooc tests abound too
So what is this all about?
http://t.co/m14zgGv9VL

Selective amnesia must be exacerbated by cortisone use!

Yea, but your average Joe BBC July fan don't know about that, or care. Froome and Brailsford are such hypocrites that their opinions are transparent. Their time will come.

 

[bobbins]

You've referred to this before, which I read as a seperate TUE from Froome's
Can you clarify what this was about?

Backdated a TUE a few years ago during the classics season.

 

[TailWindHome]

Backdated a TUE a few years ago during the classics season.

Can you name the year, the rider, the medication the reason for the backdate?

 

[Digger]

They genuinely surprise me with how brazen they are - from DB criticising the UCI, to Wiggins calling lance a 'cheating bast***', to Froome calling for prison terms for doping...

Hypocrisy to the max.

 

[Benotti69]

They genuinely surprise me with how brazen they are - from DB criticising the UCI, to Wiggins calling lance a 'cheating bast***', to Froome calling for prison terms for doping...

Hypocrisy to the max.

Aint nothing new in the sport. Plenty have spoken with hypocrisy. Par for the sport.