Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Libertine Seguros]

Re: Re:

Hilarious. I read this last page and it's almost entirely Sky fans complaining about people saying why the thread is so long. Which pretty much explains why the thread is so long.

you and i are reading a very different thread. as always its 50% racism from sky haters, and 50% jingoism from sky supporters.

That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

or alternately you can't recognise racism when you see it.

If you're thinking of xenophobia, or Anglophobia, or national prejudice, then fine. But racism? No.

Racism is Michael Albasini calling Kevin Réza a "dirty n****r".

Saying Geraint Thomas climbing a mountain that isn't just HC, but 12km at over 10% (i.e., it's neither a long grinding climb which might suit Thomas' style, nor is it a short steep burst like the climbs he's shown quality on before (you would expect somebody who powers over short steep ascents to run out of gas and lose out when that gradient is sustained over a long distance like on the Rettenbachferner), and staying within 45" of Thibaut Pinot, a pure climber in the classic style who has podiumed the Tour de France, is suspicious... that's not racist.

Sometimes the Sky scepticism gets pretty tin-foil hat territory here, and sometimes things get jumped on that shouldn't be when there are much more convincing cases to be made against the team. But that isn't racism. Not even if you extend it out to a general hatred for all things British.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

Hilarious. I read this last page and it's almost entirely Sky fans complaining about people saying why the thread is so long. Which pretty much explains why the thread is so long.

you and i are reading a very different thread. as always its 50% racism from sky haters, and 50% jingoism from sky supporters.

That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

or alternately you can't recognise racism when you see it.

Wow, this guy is the funniest poster we've had here since Enache V stopped with the sock puppets.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

The implied comparison with Wiggins isn't a good one. Thomas could always climb reasonably well (not like an actual climber, not for a GT top 15, but reasonably well. Stout GT top 30 material). Wiggins was 100% an autobus passenger.

He won Fleche du Sud as a junior.

The freaking TDU has tougher climbs. Fleche du Sud is a rouleur's race

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

The implied comparison with Wiggins isn't a good one. Thomas could always climb reasonably well (not like an actual climber, not for a GT top 15, but reasonably well. Stout GT top 30 material). Wiggins was 100% an autobus passenger.

He won Fleche du Sud as a junior.

The freaking TDU has tougher climbs. Fleche du Sud is a rouleur's race

They have to replicate the "Wiggo won a hilly stage of L'Avenir" hyperbole. It's in the play book.

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

I think this page sums up why this thread is so long: bickering.

At least you have a model for G, since being world class on the track counts for nothing on the road, apparently.

Back to this again huh? *EDIT - Post war* Three WC medallist pursuiters have won *EDIT - TDF's*. THREE.

Coppi
Anquetil
Wigans

Have a look at the rest of the track riders who have transferred to the road successfully, and there are LOTS of them. How many were able to climb with the best? How many continued as sprinters or rouleurs?

 

[Escarabajo]

Re: Re:

I think this page sums up why this thread is so long: bickering.

At least you have a model for G, since being world class on the track counts for nothing on the road, apparently.

Back to this again huh? Three WC medallist pursuiters have won GT's. THREE.

Coppi
Anquetil
Wigans

Have a look at the rest of the track riders who have transferred to the road successfully, and there are LOTS of them. How many were able to climb with the best? How many continued as sprinters or rouleurs?

And you can put asterisks on Wigans anyway!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Re:

I think this page sums up why this thread is so long: bickering.

At least you have a model for G, since being world class on the track counts for nothing on the road, apparently.

Being world class on the track counts for plenty on the road. But it counts for absolutely nothing when it comes to climbing 12km @ 10,5% mountains. If Joaquím Rodríguez went for the Hour Record and came within a country mile of Wiggins' mark, nobody in their right mind would be saying that his being world class on the road would explain why he is up there with the best on the track. Because the skillset required to do what Joaquím Rodríguez does has nothing to do with the skillset required to be successful at the Hour.

Thomas is not a mug uphill, and he's had some decent showings before. But none to this level on this type of mountain. They've all either been much lower gradient and mid-length that enables a good rhythm to be brought (eg Croix de Chaubouret), or punchier, shorter steep climbs that he's shown he has the power to blast over quite comprehensively (eg Alto do Malhão). Also despite his apparent focusing in on improving his climbing, it comes off the end of his best Classics season yet where he'd demonstrably improved his flat power as well (which is something where his being world class on the track would count for plenty and hence while it may have got some Clinic attention it's not seen as as dramatic as a top 5 on the Rettenbachferner and with his past full of good Classics form marred by inopportune crashes and injuries, is much more easily explicable), so it's not surprising it's got some attention here.

 

[oldcrank]

Re: Re:

I think this page sums up why this thread is so long: bickering.

At least you have a model for G, since being world class on the track counts for nothing on the road, apparently.

Back to this again huh? Three WC medallist pursuiters have won GT's. THREE.

Coppi
Anquetil
Wiggins

Have a look at the rest of the track riders who have transferred to the road successfully, and there are LOTS of them. How many were able to climb with the best? How many continued as sprinters or rouleurs?

My friend, you are missing at least three names from your list. THREE
Altig
Bracke
Koblet

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

I think this page sums up why this thread is so long: bickering.

At least you have a model for G, since being world class on the track counts for nothing on the road, apparently.

Back to this again huh? Three WC medallist pursuiters have won GT's. THREE.

Coppi
Anquetil
Wiggins

Have a look at the rest of the track riders who have transferred to the road successfully, and there are LOTS of them. How many were able to climb with the best? How many continued as sprinters or rouleurs?

My friend, you are missing at least three names from your list. THREE
Altig
Bracke
Koblet

Sorry, Tour winners (Altig only won a Vuelta)

Also, Koblet was only national champion, he never won at worlds.

 

[oldcrank]

Re: Re:

I think this page sums up why this thread is so long: bickering.

At least you have a model for G, since being world class on the track counts for nothing on the road, apparently.

Back to this again huh? Three WC medallist pursuiters have won GT's. THREE.

Coppi
Anquetil
Wiggins

Have a look at the rest of the track riders who have transferred to the road successfully, and there are LOTS of them. How many were able to climb with the best? How many continued as sprinters or rouleurs?

My friend, you are missing at least three names from your list. THREE
Altig
Bracke
Koblet

Sorry, Tour winners (Altig only won a Vuelta)

Also, Koblet was only national champion, he never won at worlds.

You wrote "WC medallist", my friend, and Mr. Koblet has
two silvers and a bronze in the professional pursuit.

 

[blackcat]

Re: Re:

I think this page sums up why this thread is so long: bickering.

At least you have a model for G, since being world class on the track counts for nothing on the road, apparently.

Being world class on the track counts for plenty on the road. But it counts for absolutely nothing when it comes to climbing 12km @ 10,5% mountains. If Joaquím Rodríguez went for the Hour Record and came within a country mile of Wiggins' mark, nobody in their right mind would be saying that his being world class on the road would explain why he is up there with the best on the track. Because the skillset required to do what Joaquím Rodríguez does has nothing to do with the skillset required to be successful at the Hour.

how fast could a teams pursuit team from kottbus go with Gretsch, Kittell, Tony MArtin, Greipel, Ciolek? They could go 3'48" and lap the British World Record holders.

 

[blackcat]

libertine, certainly Kennaugh and G having been counting the GBP that Wiggo raked in, and they knew what watts he was on the track, and their own p/w numbers.

and yes, asphalt and tarmac and lime is different from the boards.

but Wiggo could not peel the skin off custard at Linda Mac FDJ Credit Ag HighRoad Columbia... he was $hite!

 

[Archibald]

Re: Re:

If Thomas did win the Tour then he would be the third Brit to do so over a short period of time. 'Beacons of cleanliness', all three, triumphing in the face of all those naughty cheating foreigners.

at least he's actually from the British Isles

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Re:

I think this page sums up why this thread is so long: bickering.

At least you have a model for G, since being world class on the track counts for nothing on the road, apparently.

Back to this again huh? Three WC medallist pursuiters have won GT's. THREE.

Coppi
Anquetil
Wiggins

Have a look at the rest of the track riders who have transferred to the road successfully, and there are LOTS of them. How many were able to climb with the best? How many continued as sprinters or rouleurs?

My friend, you are missing at least three names from your list. THREE
Altig
Bracke
Koblet

Sorry, Tour winners (Altig only won a Vuelta)

Also, Koblet was only national champion, he never won at worlds.

You wrote "WC medallist", my friend, and Mr. Koblet has
two silvers and a bronze in the professional pursuit.

You trumped me again! I was thinking post war TDF winners - Koblet, Anquetil, Wigans.

I'll show myself out...

 

[Dear Wiggo]

Re: Re:

Coppi
Anquetil
Wiggins

Have a look at the rest of the track riders who have transferred to the road successfully, and there are LOTS of them. How many were able to climb with the best? How many continued as sprinters or rouleurs?

My friend, you are missing at least three names from your list. THREE

Altig
Bracke
Koblet

How difficult is it to look at those 6 or 7 riders, and line up the ones that were absolute crap on the road but world championship level (winning, not just competing) on the track and then automagically became world class on the road later on?

Coz I am guessing that subset contains 1 rider alone.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

Hilarious. I read this last page and it's almost entirely Sky fans complaining about people saying why the thread is so long. Which pretty much explains why the thread is so long.

you and i are reading a very different thread. as always its 50% racism from sky haters, and 50% jingoism from sky supporters.

That word doesn't mean what you think it means.

or alternately you can't recognise racism when you see it.

What I can recognize is stupidity, and it's emanating from your posts in spades.

funny that i find the same about most of your nonsense. maybe we can just agree to ignore each other and move on.

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

Hilarious. I read this last page and it's almost entirely Sky fans complaining about people saying why the thread is so long. Which pretty much explains why the thread is so long.

you and i are reading a very different thread. as always its 50% racism from sky haters, and 50% jingoism from sky supporters.

32,950 posts, that means 16,475 are racist. Can you link 20?

i was clearly being facetious you simpleton, what i should have said was this thread is 33% reasoned argument, 33% sky haters, 33% sky acolytes, and 1% benotti being ridiculous.

 

[TheSpud]

Re: Re:

Coppi
Anquetil
Wiggins

Have a look at the rest of the track riders who have transferred to the road successfully, and there are LOTS of them. How many were able to climb with the best? How many continued as sprinters or rouleurs?

My friend, you are missing at least three names from your list. THREE

Altig
Bracke
Koblet

How difficult is it to look at those 6 or 7 riders, and line up the ones that were absolute crap on the road but world championship level (winning, not just competing) on the track and then automagically became world class on the road later on?

Coz I am guessing that subset contains 1 rider alone.

Automagically? Great word!

 

[lllludo]

Anquetil, Coppi, Koblet, Altig won the 1st GT they participated in. All super champions. Bracke finished "only" 21st of his 1st Tour but he only won a subpar "easy" Vuelta in 1971
Now we have sir Bradley, pre-marginal gains, 1st Giro in 2003 : eliminated of Giro 2003 (18th stage). 1st Tour he finished 125 in 2005
Now we have welshman G., pre-marginal gains, the next wonder of British cycling. 1st tour in 2007 riding for dodgy Barloworld : he finished 140
new cycling...

 

[Avoriaz]

Re: Re:

I think this page sums up why this thread is so long: bickering.

At least you have a model for G, since being world class on the track counts for nothing on the road, apparently.

Being world class on the track counts for plenty on the road. But it counts for absolutely nothing when it comes to climbing 12km @ 10,5% mountains. If Joaquím Rodríguez went for the Hour Record and came within a country mile of Wiggins' mark, nobody in their right mind would be saying that his being world class on the road would explain why he is up there with the best on the track. Because the skillset required to do what Joaquím Rodríguez does has nothing to do with the skillset required to be successful at the Hour.

how fast could a teams pursuit team from kottbus go with Gretsch, Kittell, Tony MArtin, Greipel, Ciolek? They could go 3'48" and lap the British World Record holders.

They would be disqualified though for having a five man team

 

[BYOP88]

Re: Re:

I think this page sums up why this thread is so long: bickering.

At least you have a model for G, since being world class on the track counts for nothing on the road, apparently.

Being world class on the track counts for plenty on the road. But it counts for absolutely nothing when it comes to climbing 12km @ 10,5% mountains. If Joaquím Rodríguez went for the Hour Record and came within a country mile of Wiggins' mark, nobody in their right mind would be saying that his being world class on the road would explain why he is up there with the best on the track. Because the skillset required to do what Joaquím Rodríguez does has nothing to do with the skillset required to be successful at the Hour.

how fast could a teams pursuit team from kottbus go with Gretsch, Kittell, Tony MArtin, Greipel, Ciolek? They could go 3'48" and lap the British World Record holders.

They would be disqualified though for having a five man team

Avoriaz with the win!

 

[Singer01]

Re: Re:

I think this page sums up why this thread is so long: bickering.

At least you have a model for G, since being world class on the track counts for nothing on the road, apparently.

Being world class on the track counts for plenty on the road. But it counts for absolutely nothing when it comes to climbing 12km @ 10,5% mountains. If Joaquím Rodríguez went for the Hour Record and came within a country mile of Wiggins' mark, nobody in their right mind would be saying that his being world class on the road would explain why he is up there with the best on the track. Because the skillset required to do what Joaquím Rodríguez does has nothing to do with the skillset required to be successful at the Hour.

how fast could a teams pursuit team from kottbus go with Gretsch, Kittell, Tony MArtin, Greipel, Ciolek? They could go 3'48" and lap the British World Record holders.

They would be disqualified though for having a five man team

maybe one of them could borrow the invisibility cloak from Haimar 'he who must not be seen' Zubeldia.
just realised that sounds very harry potterish!

 

[Bernie's eyesore]

Re:

Anquetil, Coppi, Koblet, Altig won the 1st GT they participated in. All super champions. Bracke finished "only" 21st of his 1st Tour but he only won a subpar "easy" Vuelta in 1971
Now we have sir Bradley, pre-marginal gains, 1st Giro in 2003 : eliminated of Giro 2003 (18th stage). 1st Tour he finished 125 in 2005
Now we have welshman G., pre-marginal gains, the next wonder of British cycling. 1st tour in 2007 riding for dodgy Barloworld : he finished 140
new cycling...

I'm sure Thomas will be over the moon to discover he is a Tour winner. Based on how he climbed the other day he wouldn't make the top ten in a Tour de France or even come close.

 

[djpbaltimore]

Re: Re:

I'm sure Thomas will be over the moon to discover he is a Tour winner. Based on how he climbed the other day he wouldn't make the top ten in a Tour de France or even come close.

Yeah, I think Thomas' best case scenario is a career trajectory like another track convert Christian Vande Velde with an occasional top 10 in a GT without really threatening for overall victory.

 

[The Hitch]

Re: Re:

I'm sure Thomas will be over the moon to discover he is a Tour winner. Based on how he climbed the other day he wouldn't make the top ten in a Tour de France or even come close.

Yeah, I think Thomas' best case scenario is a career trajectory like another track convert Christian Vande Velde with an occasional top 10 in a GT without really threatening for overall victory.

What did you have as froomes best case scenario pre august 2011 or wiggos pre July 2009?