Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

If Sky/Wiggins were lying about TUEs and needle injections, it aint a giant leap of faith to think he was taking other PEDs to enhance his performance.

If, as you say / suspect,they have been doing EPO and AICAR, why would they need low level cortisone?? Why bother? I thought (based on the the comments from the intelligentsia here) that AICAR was THE drug to take and that clearly Wiggo was on it. If so, why Triam?? IT doesn't add up ...

Low level Cortisone? Kenacort injections aint low level.

If you can take all the dope, 'legal' and illegal why risk not taking it?

Mirodosing is a no brainer and why Tenerife then if all it takes is a jab of 'low level cortisone' to win a TdF?

CIRC report had riders taking 30 tablets a day during GTs.

Rasmussen, Jaksche, Hamilton all admitted to Cortisone injections as part of the cocktail.

 

[MmeDesgrange]

Here's a thought: Brailsford had the 2 strongest riders in the race in 2012. One had a potentially damaging TUE and one didn't. Yet Brailsford chose to give the race to Wiggins over Froome, arguably the strongest rider. Of course, given what we now know, that opens an entirely different can of worms...

 

[ColonelKidneyBeans]

Re: Re:

If Sky/Wiggins were lying about TUEs and needle injections, it aint a giant leap of faith to think he was taking other PEDs to enhance his performance.

If, as you say / suspect,they have been doing EPO and AICAR, why would they need low level cortisone?? Why bother? I thought (based on the the comments from the intelligentsia here) that AICAR was THE drug to take and that clearly Wiggo was on it. If so, why Triam?? IT doesn't add up ...

Because even if you are on AICAR, cortisone is still performance enhancing. So why not? You can even take it "legally"
Besdides, a "good" doping regimen is not just one substance, but a mix of legal and illegal one. And the right timing of course...

 

[Eyeballs Out]

Re: Re:

If Sky/Wiggins were lying about TUEs and needle injections, it aint a giant leap of faith to think he was taking other PEDs to enhance his performance.

If, as you say / suspect,they have been doing EPO and AICAR, why would they need low level cortisone?? Why bother? I thought (based on the the comments from the intelligentsia here) that AICAR was THE drug to take and that clearly Wiggo was on it. If so, why Triam?? IT doesn't add up ...

Because even if you are on AICAR, cortisone is still performance enhancing. So why not? You can even take it "legally"
Besdides, a "good" doping regimen is not just one substance, but a mix of legal and illegal one. And the right timing of course...

Indeed, that's what set's Sky apart. Before they came into pro cycling everyone thought you could only cheat one way at once. #marginalgains

 

[DamianoMachiavelli]

Re: Sky

I don't have absolute confirmation of this but word is that a certain ex-Sky rider blames the team for ruining his health with OOC drug use. It has taken him a couple of years to get back to where he was before joining that team.

If someone like Shane Stokes had any balls then he would be asking that instead of focusing on TUEs.

 

[veganrob]

Re: Re:

Hello, long time lurker but finally curious enough to post. So, Sky arranged a TUE for a Kenalog injection for Wiggins three years running due to debilitating allergies yet Mikel Landa (forgive me if I'm wrong here) pulled out of this year's Giro as Sky team leader suffering from allergies. Why no injection for Landa?

Saddle sore.

Saddle sore sounds like a perfect time to inject some kenalog

But Landa had gastric problems I believe

So you're happy to accept 'gastric problems' (or 'stomach flu' as it has been described) for Landa but not hayfever / asthma for Wiggins?

Landa did withdraw from the race. Unlike Wiggo from races. Except ones where he has to ride downhill in the rain. I do seem to recall Brailsford stating that even his riders with asthma would not get a TUE. What hapened to that?

 

[The Hegelian]

Would like to again formally record my enjoyment over this. It is a small card, this Wiggins Tue, but it is enough to shake the foundations of Sky. They don't come out of this intact.

What a gift.

That 2012 tdf was a bloody disgrace. Remember when TJ and Evans attacked and Mick Rogers - Dodgy Mick - just looked at his power metre and let them go? He was riding better then in all of this Telekom years in the full scale LA dirty era.

2012 was the beginning of 4 years of unbelievable crap. Thank god the house of bullsh*t cards is crumbling.

 

[ferryman]

Re: Sky

I don't have absolute confirmation of this but word is that a certain ex-Sky rider blames the team for ruining his health with OOC drug use. It has taken him a couple of years to get back to where he was before joining that team.

If someone like Shane Stokes had any balls then he would be asking that instead of focusing on TUEs.

I usually don't like the ITK posts without a source but this has got to be Eddy B??

 

[42x16ss]

Re:

Would like to again formally record my enjoyment over this. It is a small card, this Wiggins Tue, but it is enough to shake the foundations of Sky. They don't come out of this intact.

What a gift.

That 2012 tdf was a bloody disgrace. Remember when TJ and Evans attacked and Mick Rogers - Dodgy Mick - just looked at his power metre and let them go? He was riding better then in all of this Telekom years in the full scale LA dirty era.

2012 was the beginning of 4 years of unbelievable crap. Thank god the house of *******t cards is crumbling.

Hilarious wasn't it. Rogers wasn't even as good in 2006, when he rode his ar$e off for Kloeden (he was probably the best domestique in the race) and still came 9th.

He was riding like some kind of unrelenting, kilometre chewing, cyborg all of 2012.

 

[The Hegelian]

Rogers in 2012 was the only evidence that I needed. I hung 'em on that alone. It was that obvious and overt.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Sky

I don't have absolute confirmation of this but word is that a certain ex-Sky rider blames the team for ruining his health with OOC drug use. It has taken him a couple of years to get back to where he was before joining that team.

If someone like Shane Stokes had any balls then he would be asking that instead of focusing on TUEs.

I usually don't like the ITK posts without a source but this has got to be Eddy B??

TBH I'm not sure who else it could be. Eisel or Dombrowski are about the only others who immediately come to mind. Even Cav and Gerrans had decent results there.

 

[Night Rider]

Re: Sky

I don't have absolute confirmation of this but word is that a certain ex-Sky rider blames the team for ruining his health with OOC drug use. It has taken him a couple of years to get back to where he was before joining that team.

If someone like Shane Stokes had any balls then he would be asking that instead of focusing on TUEs.

I think if the rider is prepared to go on record then he would write it, I don't think Stokes is a puff piece journo like a lot of others. The platform is there for that rider right now, pr initiative releasing all his TUE's before fancybear does.

 

[42x16ss]

Re: Sky

I don't have absolute confirmation of this but word is that a certain ex-Sky rider blames the team for ruining his health with OOC drug use. It has taken him a couple of years to get back to where he was before joining that team.

If someone like Shane Stokes had any balls then he would be asking that instead of focusing on TUEs.

I think if the rider is prepared to go on record then he would write it, I don't think Stokes is a puff piece journo like a lot of others. The platform is there for that rider right now, pr initiative releasing all his TUE's before fancybear does.

Yes, Wade Wallace (owner of CyclingTips) is very protective of his brand - nothing that can't be readily substantiated. I'd imagine that Stokes has similar integrity.

 

[Night Rider]

Re: Sky

I don't have absolute confirmation of this but word is that a certain ex-Sky rider blames the team for ruining his health with OOC drug use. It has taken him a couple of years to get back to where he was before joining that team.

If someone like Shane Stokes had any balls then he would be asking that instead of focusing on TUEs.

I think if the rider is prepared to go on record then he would write it, I don't think Stokes is a puff piece journo like a lot of others. The platform is there for that rider right now, pr initiative releasing all his TUE's before fancybear does.

Yes, Wade Wallace (owner of CyclingTips) is very protective of his brand - nothing that can't be readily substantiated. I'd imagine that Stokes has similar integrity.

CTips is owned by bikeexchange now. In any case I would make a distinction between Stokes from the rest of the entity, he's more investigative and has more integrity.

 

[zigzag wanderer]

Re: Sky

I don't have absolute confirmation of this but word is that a certain ex-Sky rider blames the team for ruining his health with OOC drug use. It has taken him a couple of years to get back to where he was before joining that team.

If someone like Shane Stokes had any balls then he would be asking that instead of focusing on TUEs.

I usually don't like the ITK posts without a source but this has got to be Eddy B??

Very probably Eddy B but outside chance of Matty Hayman???

 

[Robert21]

Surely, Wiggins got a TUE before each of his target races not because of the performance-enhancing effects of taking a single shot of Kenacort, but because he had been using the stuff big time in order to maximise his power to weight ratio (the use of corticoids is not banned out of competition) and he needed the 'insurance' of a TUE in case the stuff was still in his system and led to a positive test.

 

[Robert21]

Re: Re:

If Sky/Wiggins were lying about TUEs and needle injections, it aint a giant leap of faith to think he was taking other PEDs to enhance his performance.

I mean, he had no TUEs for the 2011 Vuelta, and didnt have any 'legal' injections in 2009 either

Perhaps he just allowed more time to elapse between pumping himself full of 'legal out of competition' corticoids and starting the race, so didn't need a `TUE' as insurance.

 

[ontheroad]

So Brailsford is finally coming out of hiding today at some stage, somewhat belatedly and undoubtedly because of the story's failure to die by itself. It will be interesting to see how he aquirms his way out of justifying this one, whatever he says it will be pure damage limitation.

 

[Benotti69]

Re: Re:

If Sky/Wiggins were lying about TUEs and needle injections, it aint a giant leap of faith to think he was taking other PEDs to enhance his performance.

I mean, he had no TUEs for the 2011 Vuelta, and didnt have any 'legal' injections in 2009 either

Perhaps he just allowed more time to elapse between pumping himself full of 'legal out of competition' corticoids and starting the race, so didn't need a `TUE' as insurance.

I bet Wiggins had a fit on the bus everyday Froome was stronger than him in Vuelta'11. Wiggins was the chosen one and here was a guy that sky were trying to offload making Wiggins look like a super dom! I guess Wiggins went ballistic and the program had to be upped for 2012. Hence the super season of 2012.

 

[Benotti69]

Re:

So Brailsford is finally coming out of hiding today at some stage, somewhat belatedly and undoubtedly because of the story's failure to die by itself. It will be interesting to see how he aquirms his way out of justifying this one, whatever he says it will be pure damage limitation.

I am guessing it will be a piece in the Times by Matthew Syed. It wont be public press conference.

 

[MmeDesgrange]

I've heard soft couch Sky interview - no hard questions for Sir Dave

Personally think they should get the judoka/journo from Stade 2 to work him over again - she made him sweat

 

[Benotti69]

Wiggins is the last person who should be questioned in all this.

Reedie, Cookson(or McQuaid), Sapstead, Freeman, Farrell, Brailsford are the people who should be questioned.

 

[B_Ugli]

Re:

Wiggins is the last person who should be questioned in all this.

Reedie, Cookson(or McQuaid), Sapstead, Freeman, Farrell, Brailsford are the people who should be questioned.

I agree.

The controversy centres around Wiggins but the real issue in terms of the story is who sanctioned & authorised it?

I don't actually care whether cyclists take drugs - what bothers me more is DB claiming Team Sky to be whiter than white.

You simply cannot reconcile Team Sky's (alleged) obsessive attention to detail with such catastrophic lapses in judgement at key points in their history. At best its careless at worst the tip of the iceberg.

 

[Benotti69]

from someone with experience of BC and DB

Jenny Copnall @JennyCopnall

Afraid to say the bending of the rules comes as no surprise to anyone familiar with the megalomaniac characteristics of those in charge.

 

[Benotti69]

How did Zorzoli know the outcome of Wiggins specialist examination (02/07/11) when he signed off the TUE on 30/06/11?