Team Ineos (Formerly the Sky thread)

[User Guide]

What would you call them? Team leaders? They are good climbers, sure, but Cobo does ok for a Vuelta winner too.

Cobo was also beaten by the 2 AG2R guys,he wasnt great today or so far in the race.
Plan(publicly) was Valverde working for Cobo maybe be other way round soon enough.
Btw dosent mean I think Sky or especially froome is clean but two talented columbians going well on a climb isnt ET like.


Yes
Henao was brought in to be a leader in a year or two,both went well at the Giro,Uran silver medalist as well and is sky leader for the ardenne classic's.

 

[the big ring]

Cobo was also beaten by the 2 AG2R guys,he wasnt great today or so far in the race.
Plan(publicly) was Valverde working for Cobo maybe be other way round soon enough.
Btw dosent mean I think Sky or especially froome is clean but two talented columbians going well on a climb isnt ET like.


Yes
Henao was brought in to be a leader in a year or two,both went well at the Giro,Uran silver medalist as well and is sky leader for the ardenne classic's.

Had not connected the Olympic dot - Uran rode a good race there. If he climbs that well also, he's definitely a force.

I am still of the old school mindset where you ride yourself into form during the GT. This whole "95% all the time" thing is going to take some getting used to.

 

[hfer07]

apart from the obvious Froome & UK Postal bashing-- I'm really worried about what is going to be the future for my compatriots Uran & Henao from now on...... I would hate Sky to death if they get popped + for some stupid reason -or they get named because of a doping ring bust......
It's clear to me that they will be "domestiques deluxe" for the team & "might" get a chance to do the Giro on their own- because is clear that Froome will be the "indisputable Leader" for the TDF regardless what Wiggins would do- so he could well decide to go for the Italian race if he likes & relegate my men for his disposal......

 

[Arnout]

apart from the obvious Froome & UK Postal bashing-- I'm really worried about what is going to the future for my compatriots Uran & Henao from now on...... I would hate Sky to death if they get popped + for some stupid reason -or they get named because of a doping ring bust......
It's clear to me that they will be "domestiques deluxe" for the team & they "might" get a chance to do the Giro on their own- because is clear that Froome will be the "indisputable Leader" for the TDF regardless what Wiggins would do- so he could well decide to go for the Italian race if he likes & relegate my men for his disposal......

They should move, if Froome stays, in my opinion. Sky has made it very clear that they seek British victories first, the more British, the better. Nothing to gain for them if there are two British GT leaders. But I'm afraid the pay is good. It would be a waste though... would make me sad.

 

[Aguirre]

sky to confirm the shame of TdF at vuelta as well, replacing rogers and porte by henao and uran.

Uran launches froome and arrives with contador, henao with cobo, after dropping mollena, gesink and so on.

froome a.k.a biohazard to destroy everybody.

this film sounds familiar, and don't believe in that

 

[the big ring]

sky to confirm the shame of TdF at vuelta as well, replacing rogers and porte by henao and uran.

Uran launches froome and arrives with contador, henao with cobo, after dropping mollena, gesink and so on.

froome a.k.a biohazard to destroy everybody.

this film sounds familiar, and don't believe in that

+Porte was doing work on the front and then hanging on afterwards a couple of days ago.

 

[zlev11]

Uran and Henao climbing like that is way less incredible than what Porte and Rogers did at the Tour

 

[User Guide]

Uran and Henao were there at 1k to go what were they supposed to do ride backwards?
Finishing where they did was perfectly normal.
It wasnt like they launched Froome half way up the Mortirolo and finished 30 secs down
Do I think Froome is clean NO but to paint Uran,Henao and Portes performances today as evidence of anything nefarious is quite frankly ridiculous.

 

[armchairclimber]

You know, I have got to the stage now where I really hope the "loop de loops" are right and that SKY are juiced up to their gills. Yep, I hope they are dirty as hell and busted/popped/fingered so that the repulsive SKY brand is dragged through the mire (AGAIN).
I don't fancy my chances of seeing this though.

 

[Franklin]

You know, I have got to the stage now where I really hope the "loop de loops" are right and that SKY are juiced up to their gills.

You mean those who use logic and facts instead of faith?

 

[armchairclimber]

You mean those who use logic and facts instead of faith?

Hey, if you can deliver me that result, you can spin it however you want....call me a SKY fanboi even. The idea that all this great PR for little Jimmy Murdoch's outfit could turn to a giant poop bomb would be so delicious that I could take almost anything in return.

 

[JMBeaushrimp]

Hey, if you can deliver me that result, you can spin it however you want....call me a SKY fanboi even. The idea that all this great PR for little Jimmy Murdoch's outfit could turn to a giant poop bomb would be so delicious that I could take almost anything in return.

Cheers!.....

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Posted the following maybe in the wrong thread. I think it belongs more here:

We can see it from an ugly USPS standpoint or just from any other standpoint.
Let me do it as neutral observer (since the "Sky dopes better than the rest" was/is discussed at length already):

Sky is no more suspicious than all the other (big) teams.
Sky is doing the same as LIQ did at the Giro, only with more success since they have the better riders.

Wiggins, tough very suspicious had his transformation at "GAR the clean team". Not at Sky. BTW, for me Wiggins is the most doubtful on this squad.

Froome is no more suspicious with his performance jumps (given the age and progression) than the likes of Sastre, Evans, De Gendt or AC, to name a few (for further details, see my "Froome talk only" thread comments).

Henao was talked a lot about being the next big thing.

Uran was already very good before.

Rogers:
(Evans the "good guy" as comparison)
at age 23; 42nd GT (----)
24; 22nd (----)
25; 41st (14th)
26; 10th (----)
27; ----- (60th)
28; ----- (8th)
29; 8th (5th)
30; 37th (2nd)
31; ----- (2nd)
32; 23rd (3rd)
So if anything, Rogers soon should start to win GT´s. Same injury problems, same shady teams before, same shady DSes before, same TT-Talent as Cadel Evans.

Knees had his GT talent shown before (29th-2008, 20th-2009 at the TdF). The same is true w/Sivtsov.

B-Hagen is one of the best all around talents out there. Showed great ITT and sprint talent very early.

Porte was GT-Top-10 before, then missused by Rijs for one year and now back again. Yes, yes, i hear you. If not in the big break, no T-10. But i guess a T-20 was highly possible. He could go every tempo in that giro outside of the LIQ guys in all stages after the break.

Conclusion: It´s not that Sky invested big money in some obscure also-ran´s, but in guys who actually could do the train up the mountains like we see now.

Sky (outside of Wiggins*) is no more suspicious than any other team, if seen from a neutral standpoint.

* you guys may can write a PM to JV and ask how the transformation of Wiggins was done. I don´t care, since Froome will take over from now on.

 

[Franklin]

First off, let's start with some pungent observations:

1. The logical zero hypothesis is suspicion. Faith is incredibly strange considering cyclings history.Faith is nice in a church.
2. The handwaving of the dirty doctors is currently at the "ignore and just don't mention it" stage.

Wiggins, tough very suspicious had his transformation at "GAR the clean team". Not at Sky. BTW, for me Wiggins is the most doubtful on this squad.

If we look at Wiggo's palmares he has a sudden single peak at Garmin and then starts to take off at Sky. His chicken like transformation (a reverse Rasmussen) is amazing.

Froome is no more suspicious with his performance jumps (given the age and progression) than the likes of Sastre, Evans, De Gendt or AC, to name a few (for further details, see my "Froome talk only" thread comments).

Of course this has been thoroughly debunked as you fully well know. Froome's curve is as steep as the one you love to pile on; AC. the relative dirtiness of the Era makes little difference here as it's relative.

Add to this a horrible disease that somehow is very important when pushed on the issue of his transformation, but in general isn't mentioned or is no issue for his teammates. You'd think they know, but hey, it's all really no big deal

Henao was talked a lot about being the next big thing.

Uran was already very good before.

Agreed. Contrary to Froome

Rogers:
(Evans the "good guy" as comparison)

So if anything, Rogers soon should start to win GT´s. Same injury problems, same shady teams before, same shady DSes before, same TT-Talent as Cadel Evans.

Of course this is as flawed as can be as there is a story behind the numbers. Cadel was leading that Giro where he ended 14th. Add Rogers drought of wins between 2003 and 2010 and you see they are completely incomparable.

Conclusion: It´s not that Sky invested big money in some obscure also-ran´s, but in guys who actually could do the train up the mountains like we see now.

Your point is beautifully made, but what you fail to mention is how these fantastic domestiques managed to crush Smyd and Basso. Talentwise Basso is not a really bad rider, but hey, let's not distract you from creating a good fairytale.

BMC, weak as they might be fielded nobodies like Gilbert and Moinard. Yet they never managed to even hang on.

Sky (outside of Wiggins*) is no more suspicious than any other team, if seen from a neutral standpoint.

If we forget about Froome and Rogers you would have a point

I guess you employ the "kindergarten defense"... if other teams use dirty doctors and management, it's ay-okay for Sky to do the same.

And yes, Froome is taking over. Everyone who looks at the facts know it's probbly dirty. ypur handwavng in this is etremely odd.

You acknowledge he's dirty, but because he beats the one you despise it's fine. Not the best basis to have an unbiased neutral outlook.

 

[Stueyy]

When are UKAD going to get their act together?

http://www.ukad.org.uk/what-we-do/report-doping/

 

[airstream]

Honestly, I stopped believing in clean sport, having followed cycling for 7 years. Any great rider's blast-off is always accompanied with mysterious metamorphosis related to his health (Armstrong, Contador, Froome). UCI provide covering up, take bribes and prosper. Staments of DS's as Vaughters are full of expressly pretentious lie and have the only goal - to create a positive image among the sponsors. They realize no one believes them, but system should work and earn money, all other stuff is irrelevant. Probably, it really has the only solution to the situation - legalization of doping. In this case, no matter how stupid it sounds, the sport would be more fair (because thw whole super elite would ride on approximately the same) than it is now.

 

[FoxxyBrown1111]

Honestly, I stopped believing in clean sport, having followed cycling for 7 years. Any great rider's blast-off is always accompanied with mysterious metamorphosis related to his health (Armstrong, Contador, Froome). UCI provide covering up, take bribes and prosper. Staments of DS's as Vaughters are full of expressly pretentious lie and have the only goal - to create a positive image among the sponsors. They realize no one believes them, but system should work and earn money, all other stuff is irrelevant. Probably, it really has the only solution to the situation - legalization of doping. In this case, no matter how stupid it sounds, the sport would be more fair (because thw whole super elite would ride on approximately the same) than it is now.

Since you follow cycling for just 7 years, let me help you out here:
"If no doping controls, we would have numerous deaths", Järmann, admitted Epo user.

 

[airstream]

Since you follow cycling for just 7 years, let me help you out here:
"If no doping controls, we would have numerous deaths", Järmann, admitted Epo user.

Medicine is so advanced nowadays... Why did no one die after the 2007 Tour?

 

[JimmyFingers]

That legalised doping would create a level-playing field is a fallasy tho. In some EPO can boost performance 20% while in other maybe 2%. Different riders react in different ways

 

[sartoris]

Good news !! Been waiting it for years. Sky is next. It's only a matter of time ...

 

[airstream]

That legalised doping would create a level-playing field is a fallasy tho. In some EPO can boost performance 20% while in other maybe 2%. Different riders react in different ways

Legalization would be a larger leveling that so-called anti-doping fight that works only on paper.

 

[richtea]

Your point is beautifully made, but what you fail to mention is how these fantastic domestiques managed to crush Smyd and Basso. Talentwise Basso is not a really bad rider, but hey, let's not distract you from creating a good fairytale.

Szymd and Basso were bad in the Tour, probably because they had the Giro in their legs (which you ignore for some reason). Could you really see Jurgen Van Den Broeck dropping Basso if the latter had focused exclusively on the Tour? Sky would have been under much more pressure if they had brought these two as fresh domestiques for Nibali. Obviously Liquigas were constrained by their need to focus on the Giro and balance Basso's personal ambitions, but clearly this was the wrong strategy if they actually wanted to win the Tour. Doping or not, its hardly controversial to say Sky had not only the strongest team in Tour, but also a set of domestiques that had sacrificed personal ambitions to be in top shape to execute their plans.

 

[JimmyFingers]

Legalization would be a larger leveling that so-called anti-doping fight that works only on paper.

No expert so just regurgitating what I have read, but is 2 riders have the same V02max, but one has a relatively low hemocrit level and the other has one approaching 50, and they both use EPO one will get a small performance boost, the other will get a huge one. You can't give up the fight, the sport needs to be clean, that is the only way it will be fair

 

[Don't be late Pedro]

Szymd and Basso were bad in the Tour

Szymd was pretty poor in the Giro.

 

[cineteq]

Walsh on Wiggins: "Does he say it’s a great day for cycling that Armstrong has been sanctioned or does he say he still admires Lance?"

When did Wiggins say anything?