Team Jumbo-Visma

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They've been gone for a year and a half now because he doesn't have the license rights and after three strikes for copyright violation your youtube channel gets taken down. It's a standard development for youtubers really, they get big by using footage that they're technically not allowed to but no one gives a *** because the channel is too small. But once you get to a certain vierwship, the ones who own the copyright smell money and report them.

It's not only the doping videos that are gone, everything else prior to 2021 is deleted as well (except for these new RCS licensed videos from 2017 where he bought the rights).
Now that he has the license rights, where are the call outs to probable doping performances (like he used to do)? Not a good business model to use when trying to cozy up to the rights holders?
 
He deleted Volta a Portugal videos which for sure wouldn't have any copyright strikes since RTP doesn't give a damn about that. Same for older videos of GT's that everyone uses including videos with more views than LR. That's a very poor excuse.
You're pretty naive if you think that you don't risk infractions because its "only" the Volta or older GT's. Show me a bigger monetized and varified channel that has videos from Older GT's without a license (and by monetized and varified I don't mean dead channels that were created 15 years ago and just rack up viewing numbers over time).
Like I said, your channel straight up gets taken down after 3 infractions. I reckon he got 1 or 2 in 2020 when he got bigger and clearly decided not to risk anything whatsoever and took everything down.

Now that he has the license rights, where are the call outs to probable doping performances (like he used to do)? Not a good business model to use when trying to cozy up to the rights holders?
He never used to call out current performances as doping performances because you just risk getting sued. Even the Alarcon video was just low-key mocking of the Portugal scene while clearly avoiding to mention PEDs directly (something he still does, see here). The ones where he talked openly about doping were always performances form the 90s/early 00s where you can be certain that Bjarne Riis won't suddenly decide to sue you for libel.

Listen, I don't even think their coverage is that great, like the majority of cycling media they prefer to portray the sport in a non-controversial sanitized "safe" way by just dodging every clinic issue . But it's just flat out nonsense to draw any Omerta conclusions because some old videos were deleted and they don't cover doping enough.
 
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You're pretty naive if you think that you don't risk infractions because its "only" the Volta or older GT's. Show me a bigger monetized and varified channel that has videos from Older GT's without a license (and by monetized and varified I don't mean dead channels that were created 15 years ago and just rack up viewing numbers over time).
Like I said, your channel straight up gets taken down after 3 infractions. I reckon he got 1 or 2 in 2020 when he got bigger and clearly decided not to risk anything whatsoever and took everything down.
You actually think that this is due to copyright strikes when one of the videos was from RTP which just doesn't do that for almost anything while also ignoring the dramatic change in style of commentary. Yeah, "I'm naive" - top kek.
 
You guys are vastly overrating this LR&Benji stuff and potential Omerta conspiracies. Jumbo have a massiv budget, they have no problems dishing out a couple of freelance contracts for stuff you otherwise would let an intern do. In the end they probably paid a medium 4 figure sum for a couple of video reports and power estimations on opponents which they knew mostly anyway and just saved them some time.
Consultancy just sounds fancy and gets people excited for no reason, in reality consultancies are 90% inconvenient work that companies can't be bothered to do themselves but have no relevance to their bigger goals. There's no way anyone would risk letting them in on some clinic relevant information or that an ego like WVA listens to what some guys from the internet advise him to do lol.
Don't get me wrong, how they dealt with the whole thing has been laughable throughout ("Look we got an objectivity clause, that means we aren't biased" hahaha) and especially their two data guys are the sort of insufferable twitter edgelords that deserve all the *** they get but I just don't see the point of the whole outrage about the topic.

As for Ten Haag, this is also purely PR nonsense, you get these sport overlaps that get huge press coverage all the time. I assume his involvement is as relevant as the famous Carmichael training systems were for Lance.
The whole point is that they’re not going to say negative things about someone employing them.
 
You actually think that this is due to copyright strikes when one of the videos was from RTP which just doesn't do that for almost anything while also ignoring the dramatic change in style of commentary. Yeah, "I'm naive" - top kek.
Top kek? I think 4chan is calling, they want their 2000s humor back.

So let's walk this through, you create a channel which becomes your main source of income. However, due to lack of licenses your channel is threatened to get suspended, so you start buying licenses and delete all the previous videos where you don't have the rights. But word on the internet (if PhiLiz is to believe) is that the Volta a Portugal doesn't care about copyright, so you should keep your random Alarcon video because it is essential to the channel?
Sounds like a reasonable risk to take, a very shrewed strategy.

Let me ask you a question: If all the "doping related" videos were deleted due to Omerta reasons (because obviously, if you delete your videos about 90s mutant performances, people will forget that Riis and Armstrong were doping), why were videos on Astana's Aru/Landa issues in the 2015 Giro or random Gent-Welvegem tactics from 10 years ago also deleted?

The whole point is that they’re not going to say negative things about someone employing them.
That wasn't the debate I was reacting to. I've said myself that they'll be biased but even before this JV gig they were *** at talking doping in cycling and dodged pretty much everything on the topic so I don't see what changed.
 
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Top kek? I think 4chan is calling, they want their 2000s humor back.

So let's walk this through, you create a channel which becomes your main source of income. However, due to lack of licenses your channel is threatened to get suspended, so you start buying licenses and delete all the previous videos where you don't have the rights. But word on the internet (if PhiLiz is to believe) is that the Volta a Portugal doesn't care about copyright, so you should keep your random Alarcon video because it is essential to the channel?
Sounds like a reasonable risk to take, a very shrewed strategy.

Let me ask you a question: If all the "doping related" videos were deleted due to Omerta reasons (because obviously, if you delete your videos about 90s mutant performances, people will forget that Riis and Armstrong were doping), why were videos on Astana's Aru/Landa issues in the 2015 Giro or random Gent-Welvegem tactics from 10 years ago also deleted?
Because doing so would convince gullible people that is just about copyright claims and not about being accepted and rubbing shoulders with the WT peloton.

Worked perfectly on you.
 
Because doing so would convince gullible people that is just about copyright claims and not about being accepted and rubbing shoulders with the WT peloton.

Worked perfectly on you.
Jesus wept you really do believe that. So if that is the underlying strategy, why include Jose Neves in the top 10 climbing performances video 2021 and make jokes about how W52 would win the Giro easily? After all, he just did a huge sacrifice deleting so many videos that provided good viewing numbers just to hide a very damning video on Alarcon? Or why mention Riis Hautacams climbing record on the podcast if you're trying to make people forget about doping in cycling?
Is that all part of the great Omerta plan to make gullible people like me think that cycling is cleanz?
 
if there's an "omerta" thing it's that they may think it might jeopardize their employment if they're badmouthing other cyclists while being employed by a team. not that they literally know how the sausage is made lol
 
Jesus wept you really do believe that. So if that is the underlying strategy, why include Jose Neves in the top 10 climbing performances video 2021 and make jokes about how W52 would win the Giro easily? After all, he just did a huge sacrifice deleting so many videos that provided good viewing numbers just to hide a very damning video on Alarcon? Or why mention Riis Hautacams climbing record on the podcast if you're trying to make people forget about doping in cycling?
Is that all part of the great Omerta plan to make gullible people like me think that cycling is cleanz?
1 - Even Matxin tweets about Volta a Portugal, that doesn't mean d1ck. Talking about doping at Volta a Portugal or the Portuguese peloton is run of the mill stuff and it has been for years.

2 - Don't know from where your second question comes from, never implied that. I only used the Alarcón video to expose your ridiculous claim that it was all about copyright with a video that wouldn't be problematic copyright wise. Erasing their previous history of taking the piss at obvious doped performances allowed them a "credibility" they wouldn't have if they remained serious about calling a spade, a spade.

3 - Why are you trying to divert? I was talking about the YouTube videos.

Finally, it's all part of a mindset that allows the dollars to come flowing in which was actually my first point on this topic. Avoiding doping topics is for sure part of that mindset. They want those sweet dollars and the access and they'll compromise pretty much everything for it. It's fair enough, but we/I can called them on that. You're trying to tie me to some great conspiracy nonsense (as if the LR clowns are "in the know" about such details) because strawman is really the best you can hope for.
 
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I am still struggling to see the relevance of the presenters of the Lantern Rouge consulting for Jumbo Visma and the team allegedly doping - Unless you can prove these two individuals are giving 'Doping Advice' I fail to understand why they are discussed in the Clinic.

Finally, copyright is an ongoing issue on You Tube - For example go to the Bike Exchange Jayco You Tube channel and see how many videos have been pulled for copyright issues. Gee in their Backstage Pass covering the 2016 Giro they had to make do with no coverage of the Giro because of a dispute with Giro organisers.
 
1 - Even Matxin tweets about Volta a Portugal, that doesn't mean d1ck. Talking about doping at Volta a Portugal or the Portuguese peloton is run of the mill stuff and it has been for years.

2 - Don't know from where your second question comes from, never implied that. I only used the Alarcón video to expose your ridiculous claim that it was all about copyright with a video that wouldn't be problematic copyright wise. Erasing their previous history of taking the piss at obvious doped performances allowed them a "credibility" they wouldn't have if they remained serious about calling a spade, a spade.

3 - Why are you trying to divert? I was talking about the YouTube videos.

Finally, it's all part of a mindset that allows the dollars to come flowing in which was actually my first point on this topic. Avoiding doping topics is for sure part of that mindset. They want those sweet dollars and the access and they'll compromise pretty much everything for it. It's fair enough, but we/I can called them on that. You're trying to tie me to some great conspiracy nonsense (as if the LR clowns are "in the know" about such details) because strawman is really the best you can hope for.
Ok, so let me get this straight:
Taking the piss at obvious doping at the Volta by making a video about Alarcon = potentially "credibility" damaging because it forces you to call a spade a spade -> therefore must be deleted.
Taking the piss at obvious doping at the Volta by including Jose Neves in a video = doesn't mean anything, talking about doping at the Volta is run of the mill stuff and has been for years -> therefore not an issue.

So what is it?

And no, my "ridiculous claim that it was all about copyright" was not "exposed" just because you claim that the Volta and RTP doesn't give a damn about copyrights. Like are you the chairman of RTP? Is there a fat declaration in the Volta's roadbook that they don't care about copyright?
I've now tried two times to explain to you how harsh the reality on copyrights on the internet is but I'll try one more time. Youtube gives you two "free shots" at copyright violations, a third one and you're out. Like forever. Channel deleted. Done. Got it? Would you really freaking risk getting one strike for an IRRELEVANT VIDEO OF ALARCON AT THE VOLTA? Like for real? Is that the hill to die on? To trust the great RTP and Volta that no one will ever ever dare to flag your video? Absolutely ludicrous.

As for the last point, again, I reacted on people claiming that deleting old videos is a sign of "joining Omerta" or whatever. You then started this debate by quoting me. I've said throughout that the LR guys have been avoiding doping topics in contemporary cycling (for various reasons) the whole time, there is nothing that is suddenly "compromised" that wasn't compromised before. That's the whole point. They've never had a critical anti-doping stance that is suddenly being betrayed because a couple of videos were deleted over 1,5 years ago.
 
I am still struggling to see the relevance of the presenters of the Lantern Rouge consulting for Jumbo Visma and the team allegedly doping - Unless you can prove these two individuals are giving 'Doping Advice' I fail to understand why they are discussed in the Clinic.

Finally, copyright is an ongoing issue on You Tube - For example go to the Bike Exchange Jayco You Tube channel and see how many videos have been pulled for copyright issues. Gee in their Backstage Pass covering the 2016 Giro they had to make do with no coverage of the Giro because of a dispute with Giro organisers.
It's relevant if their cyclinggraphs/twitterlord guys are outright accusing other riders of doping while being employed by Jumbo.
 
It's relevant if their cyclinggraphs/twitterlord guys are outright accusing other riders of doping while being employed by Jumbo.
Yeah, like I said before, this is the real issue. Same with them apparently getting access on other teams riders data (such as weight) in good faith without sharing that they work for Jumbo (although tbf, hard to feel bad for riders who were so stupid to give randoms on the internet information like that and then are upset afterwards). As well as giving betting advice, which is apart from a potential conflict of interest a *** thing to do anyway because sports betting destroys sport and lifes.
 
It's really funny to see you trying to pretend there's some sort of incoherence when one was a long video and the other one was just a snippet which wasn't even at Volta a Portugal. You don't even know from where that part of the video mentioning Neves video came from.

I don't need to be the chairman of RTP to know you're talking out of your ass. It's not ludicrous because there's literally no risk. RTP is a Portuguese public TV which has always been relaxed regarding their material. Furthermore, you can even get a proper permission to use their images if you really feel the need to. Free of charge, last time I checked too. But well, you really don't know about this, right? Beginning to look like you have a problem with the facts.

I quoted you but that doesn't mean you can make stuff up about what I'm saying. They used to be a lot more open with their doping talk, claiming otherwise is just another one of your problems with the facts. Just like saying "a couple of videos" when literally every single of one of them which touched on the subject was deleted.

Anyway, think whatever you want. If you wanna keep rationalizing their lack of integrity, be my guest.
 
It's really funny to see you trying to pretend there's some sort of incoherence when one was a long video and the other one was just a snippet which wasn't even at Volta a Portugal. You don't even know from where that part of the video mentioning Neves video came from.

I don't need to be the chairman of RTP to know you're talking out of your ass. It's not ludicrous because there's literally no risk. RTP is a Portuguese public TV which has always been relaxed regarding their material. Furthermore, you can even get a proper permission to use their images if you really feel the need to. Free of charge, last time I checked too. But well, you really don't know about this, right? Beginning to look like you have a problem with the facts.

I quoted you but that doesn't mean you can make stuff up about what I'm saying. They used to be a lot more open with their doping talk, claiming otherwise is just another one of your problems with the facts. Just like saying "a couple of videos" when literally every single of one of them which touched on the subject was deleted.

Anyway, think whatever you want. If you wanna keep rationalizing their lack of integrity, be my guest.
How is their alleged lack of integrity by the Lanterne Rouge podcasters related to hard-core discussion in the Clinic part of the forum - By all means produce hard data to support your assertions that they are involved in a doping program on behalf of Jumbo Visma - If not it's a separate issue which can be discussed in a more appropriate part of the forum.
 

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