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Teams & Riders Team Movistar-thread

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Koronin

Koronin

Oct 14, 2017
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Finally was able to watch the Movistar documentary. I thought it was overall well done. With over 250 filmed hours they could have made the 6 episodes 1 hour long each and covered a little more of the season and the Grand Tours. Some overall impressions: Movistar did not turn it into a PR piece, which they could have done. They did allow some of the tension to show through. Landa is a very good climber, but isn't going to win a Grand Tour if he doesn't improve his TTs and find some better luck. Although I can understand his frustration with his bad luck. Quintana appears to be very aloof. Marc Soler is immature and still has a lot to learn if he wants to be a leader. I think it does show a little of Valverde's fun loving nature. It also shows how much the team management values his opinions. You also see how very different the team's DS's are. After watching it I'm not entirely sure the Tour team as a whole was dysfunctional as much as it was Landa and Quintana couldn't get along and there was no leadership so the 5 domestiques really don't know what was expected of them. The Giro and Vuelta teams appeared to be more cohesive and in both cases had better leadership. In the case of the Giro with at least Carapaz and Landa not having issues with each other and in the case of la Vuelta it was more Valverde's leadership. Hopefully Enric Mas can show he is a leader that they are hoping he can be.
 
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Sciatic

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Koronin said:
Finally was able to watch the Movistar documentary. I thought it was overall well done. With over 250 filmed hours they could have made the 6 episodes 1 hour long each and covered a little more of the season and the Grand Tours. Some overall impressions: Movistar did not turn it into a PR piece, which they could have done. They did allow some of the tension to show through. Landa is a very good climber, but isn't going to win a Grand Tour if he doesn't improve his TTs and find some better luck. Although I can understand his frustration with his bad luck. Quintana appears to be very aloof. Marc Soler is immature and still has a lot to learn if he wants to be a leader. I think it does show a little of Valverde's fun loving nature. It also shows how much the team management values his opinions. You also see how very different the team's DS's are. After watching it I'm not entirely sure the Tour team as a whole was dysfunctional as much as it was Landa and Quintana couldn't get along and there was no leadership so the 5 domestiques really don't know what was expected of them. The Giro and Vuelta teams appeared to be more cohesive and in both cases had better leadership. In the case of the Giro with at least Carapaz and Landa not having issues with each other and in the case of la Vuelta it was more Valverde's leadership. Hopefully Enric Mas can show he is a leader that they are hoping he can be.
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I thought Landa came off really well in the interviews, quite expressive about disappointment mixed with realities of team functioning (more so about the Giro than Tour), acknowledging that he has an ego But also understands what he must do for the team.
 
Koronin

Koronin

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Sciatic said:
I thought Landa came off really well in the interviews, quite expressive about disappointment mixed with realities of team functioning (more so about the Giro than Tour), acknowledging that he has an ego But also understands what he must do for the team.
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I agree with you about Landa. I happen to like Landa and after watching the documentary that hasn't changed. My reasoning on why he won't win a GT is more his time trialing abilities are bad. Yes, he does understand his role on the team.
 
BlueRoads

BlueRoads

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I still have not watched the documentation. So you probably have better insights. I don't get the dynamics at movistar, but I really think there is something wrong at the highest level of decision making. One can complain about rider's egos etc., but to me it looks like there are huge mistakes made regarding the hiring of riders and the things that those riders are told. Because if everyone was told at the start (before they sign the contract) what the team is supposed to look like, what the role of that specific rider is, how it might change and how it probably won't change - what everyone can expect and what not - I think there would be less problems. To me (as a complete outsider, I admit) it looks like they just hire really good, spanish-speaking riders and then mostly wait how they develope and whoever looks the most-promising in one moment is supported. Well, and then also the spanish citizens are preferred. (Bora is starting to do the same with the Germans, it's annoying, but that's another topic.)
Well, if I'm wrong I don't mind you telling me.
 
Koronin

Koronin

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BlueRoads said:
I still have not watched the documentation. So you probably have better insights. I don't get the dynamics at movistar, but I really think there is something wrong at the highest level of decision making. One can complain about rider's egos etc., but to me it looks like there are huge mistakes made regarding the hiring of riders and the things that those riders are told. Because if everyone was told at the start (before they sign the contract) what the team is supposed to look like, what the role of that specific rider is, how it might change and how it probably won't change - what everyone can expect and what not - I think there would be less problems. To me (as a complete outsider, I admit) it looks like they just hire really good, spanish-speaking riders and then mostly wait how they develope and whoever looks the most-promising in one moment is supported. Well, and then also the spanish citizens are preferred. (Bora is starting to do the same with the Germans, it's annoying, but that's another topic.)
Well, if I'm wrong I don't mind you telling me.
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What you're asking isn't really in the documentary. No idea what they are told when they sign unless the rider actually says what they were told. Now it is well known and the team has said this multiple times, that they team always has over 50% of their riders being Spaniards. They (team management) has said they are a Spanish team and will always be a Spanish team. They expect anyone coming to the team to learn Spanish and accept Spanish culture. They do give their riders a lot more freedoms than other teams. Several riders including Dowsitt and Sutherland have talked about that. They always have at least 1 of their leaders being a Spaniard. Now for this season (2020) they do have a more multi-national team than ever before, but it's still over 50% Spaniards. A portion of Spanish fans look at Movistar almost as a national team and expect at least one leader and especially the Vuelta leader to be a Spaniard. This is a team that was started in the 70's and became what is now World Tour in 1980 which is where their official UCI start comes from. They are by several years the oldest team within the peloton.
 
BlueRoads

BlueRoads

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Well, Spain's a beautiful country, Spanish a beautiful language and I can understand the sponsor's wishes. Still, this kind of national approach always feels a little awkward, even more so when people who speak the same language, just come from a different country/ continent seem to be secondary. (I'm not a huge fan of national teams anyway.)
 
Koronin

Koronin

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BlueRoads said:
Well, Spain's a beautiful country, Spanish a beautiful language and I can understand the sponsor's wishes. Still, this kind of national approach always feels a little awkward, even more so when people who speak the same language, just come from a different country/ continent seem to be secondary. (I'm not a huge fan of national teams anyway.)
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Movistar also has a Spanish amateur team they use as a feeder team and they are also hoping that Valverde's organization of teams will eventually become a feeder system for them.

Also remember that both FDJ and AG2R are over 50% French riders with French leaders.
 
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Kaptain Kool

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I think Movistar's problems with their GC riders are overblown. They're a mid-budget team that won the Giro and got a podium in the Vuelta (plus 4th in both). In the Tour, neither Quintana nor Landa were strong enough.

I do think Landa was a mistake because having a 3rd high salary GC rider meant less for domestiques. But, even with weaker domestiques, they made the Tour the best in years by blowing things up early on and not letting Inneos do their tempo thing.
 
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BlueRoads

BlueRoads

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True, Koronin, it's not only movistar who have this policy.

Kaptain Kool, I don't know. Their results are pretty good, i would not contend that. But in the last years they were the main provider of personal drama and weird twists in GTs. Of course, that's also a slick PR strategy... :cool:
 
Koronin

Koronin

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BlueRoads said:
True, Koronin, it's not only movistar who have this policy.

Kaptain Kool, I don't know. Their results are pretty good, i would not contend that. But in the last years they were the main provider of personal drama and weird twists in GTs. Of course, that's also a slick PR strategy... :cool:
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There's a combination of reasons for that. The team lost confidence in Quintana. So they brought Landa in. Remember Ineos has a budget of at least 2 times what Movistar's budget is. Movistar has been right around league average for years with their budget. For the most part of the drama has been around Quintana and Landa at the Tour. They've continued to rely on Valverde at la Vuelta. Now you can argue it may not be smart to rely on a rider in his late 30's in any Grand Tour, but that's what happened. Valverde does seem to find some humor in it, even though la Vuelta is his favorite race and his skills are perfectly suited to that race. Valverde did half jokingly say something along the lines of why does it always come down to me getting results (at la Vuelta). Yet at the same time it was the Vuelta stage win in the rainbow jersey that meant so much to him and when he got that podium he said that although his fans were dreaming of him on the podium in the rainbow jersey he dared not allow himself that dream.

Also there was the disaster of 2017 when Valverde broke his knee cap at the Tour and the team did nothing for the rest of the season. Their biggest highlight was Valverde doing the training ride with the team on the rest day of the Vuelta.
 
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yaco

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Thought it was the 2019 TDF where Movistar showed a lack of teamwork - The leaders weren't good enough for a podium but judicious riding could have got a top 4 or 5. Stage 20 is the perfect example of their lack of teamwork - Nibali is riding solo out the front and instead of riding collectively for Valverde, you had Quintana and Landa attacking the group.
 
Koronin

Koronin

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yaco said:
Thought it was the 2019 TDF where Movistar showed a lack of teamwork - The leaders weren't good enough for a podium but judicious riding could have got a top 4 or 5. Stage 20 is the perfect example of their lack of teamwork - Nibali is riding solo out the front and instead of riding collectively for Valverde, you had Quintana and Landa attacking the group.
Click to expand...

There were a few questionable things at the Vuelta, but nothing like the Tour and the 2018 Tour wasn't much better.
 
Mayomaniac

Mayomaniac

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RedheadDane said:
I kind of became a Landa fan after his extreme blunt honesty at the 2015 Giro.

"Did you attack because Contador had a mechanic?"
"Yes!"

(Few days later)
"Do you think Tinkoff's attack was a revenge for the other day?"
"Yes!"
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He also told Italian media that they were going to make the last mountain stages as hard as possible, not because they believed that the could still win the race, but to wear Contador down, so that Nibali wouldn't have to worry about him at the Tour. Landa doesn't have a filter and just speaks his mind, he's a bit like Gibo (who asked Contator on live TV if he gifted the Campiglio stage to Landa because winning that one would be a bad omen, remember 1999 Pantani).
 
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