Teams & Riders Team Movistar-thread

[Blanco]

Re:

I don't think that Landa should be behind Valverde in the pecking order in regards to GTs. Especially the Giro

Valverde's status in Movistar is that he basically could get whatever he wants. If he wants to lead the Tour, I think Unzue would fulfill that. But the thing with Valverde is that he knows what he can, and what he can't do, and where is his place. I think he'll be more than happy to play second fiddle to Landa at the Giro, like he did with Quintana, as long as he has a clear shot at la Vuelta.

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re: Re:

I don't think that Landa should be behind Valverde in the pecking order in regards to GTs. Especially the Giro

Valverde's status in Movistar is that he basically could get whatever he wants. If he wants to lead the Tour, I think Unzue would fulfill that. But the thing with Valverde is that he knows what he can, and what he can't do, and where is his place. I think he'll be more than happy to play second fiddle to Landa at the Giro, like he did with Quintana, as long as he has a clear shot at la Vuelta.

The thing is though that "playing second fiddle" is an ambiguous term. There's a lot of space between being outright coleader and being a dedicated domestique. And where exactly a rider falls on that spectrum is going to matter all the more with smaller team sizes. Even if Movistar manage to get their three leaders to agree to have one GT leadership each and manage to stop Landa and Quintana from antagonising each other in the press, there are still going to be serious problems.

Is Valverde going to give up stage ambitions to help a rider like Landa, who has a trivial palmares by Alejandro's standards, win the Giro? Is Landa any more likely to spend a second GT slaving for Quintana or Valverde with good grace than he was for Froome? If any Movistar rider is in serious contention for a GT win, the same issues are going to arise.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Top end talent over depth. Especially when you are going up against Sky and Froome and you are now allowed to only go to a GT with 8 riders. Its always an advantage when you are the underdog if the DS does his job adequately. Its Valv and Landa for the Giro, Landa and Quintana for the Tour and Quintana and Valv for the Vuelta. Then you can throw Soler in there as a super domestique.

 

[dastott]

Both Nairo and Landa could have handled this better but Nairo seems to have started a war here, as far as outsiders can see. Landa was only responding to Nairo's provocation IMO. If the Giro is TT heavy then the Tour would be the best fit for both Nairo and Landa. Will be interesting...

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Re:

Top end talent over depth. Especially when you are going up against Sky and Froome and you are now allowed to only go to a GT with 8 riders. Its always an advantage when you are the underdog if the DS does his job adequately. Its Valv and Landa for the Giro, Landa and Quintana for the Tour and Quintana and Valv for the Vuelta. Then you can throw Soler in there as a super domestique.

It's not an obviously bad idea. Sky have a much bigger budget and consequently a much stronger roster of support riders. If Movistar try to match their approach, and model their team accordingly, they will usually end up fielding a team that isn't quite as strong all the way down. Concentrating on making sure that their number 2 rider is the strongest support rider in a GT, even if that means falling further behind in terms of the strength of the rest of the team may in theory give them more ability to disrupt Sky or dictate the terms of the race.

But for that to work, the number 2 guy probably has to be willing to actually ride for his leader at crucial points. It's not at all clear that they will be though, and that would leave Movistar's leader with weaker support than he would get from a less talented but more loyal no 2 and a wider team weakened by a top heavy spending policy.

Maybe Unzue will knock some heads together and they will have the top superdom in all three GTs. Or maybe one of their leaders turns up so strong next year that support barely matters. Movistar won't care if one of their stars ends up sulking like Visentini if one of the other two has a season like Roche, after all. But it's pretty clearly suboptimal if the second strongest rider on a GT team can't be relied on to work.

 

[Koronin]

I'm still of the opinion that Valverde is wanting to use the Giro to test his knee before leading the Vuelta, which we all know is the one he wants for multiple reasons including the history he is chasing there. Now if Landa and Quintana end up at the Tour without either of them going to the Giro, I doubt Valverde will be too unhappy about leading the Giro as long as both Landa and Quintana understand that he is still leading the Vuelta, which he's already said he wants. From what he's said he appears to be fine going to the Giro with Landa as the leader. Having said that he will still be a protected rider there and will definitely be option B. Granted there is still the question of how his knee will react to actual racing, but I don't think we have any reason to believe he won't be fully healthy and fine when the season starts.
I would hope at this point, everyone knows that Valverde gets whatever he wants (evidence being racing all 3 Grand Tours last year) and has his schedule set first. Everyone else's schedule is set based off of his schedule.
I think the team has 2 true super domestiques in Andre Amador (who did finish 4th at the Giro a couple years ago) and Soler whom has a ton of potential. I would expect Amador to go to the Giro and one of the other two GTs. If they send Soler to two Grand Tours next year it would have to be Giro/Vuelta. I have a feeling if it's only 1 they send him back to the Vuelta. I think the biggest thing we learned at this year's Vuelta is that Soler still has as steep learning curve as does Fernandez.

 

[Blanco]

Re: Re:

I don't think that Landa should be behind Valverde in the pecking order in regards to GTs. Especially the Giro

Valverde's status in Movistar is that he basically could get whatever he wants. If he wants to lead the Tour, I think Unzue would fulfill that. But the thing with Valverde is that he knows what he can, and what he can't do, and where is his place. I think he'll be more than happy to play second fiddle to Landa at the Giro, like he did with Quintana, as long as he has a clear shot at la Vuelta.

The thing is though that "playing second fiddle" is an ambiguous term. There's a lot of space between being outright coleader and being a dedicated domestique. And where exactly a rider falls on that spectrum is going to matter all the more with smaller team sizes. Even if Movistar manage to get their three leaders to agree to have one GT leadership each and manage to stop Landa and Quintana from antagonising each other in the press, there are still going to be serious problems.

Is Valverde going to give up stage ambitions to help a rider like Landa, who has a trivial palmares by Alejandro's standards, win the Giro? Is Landa any more likely to spend a second GT slaving for Quintana or Valverde with good grace than he was for Froome? If any Movistar rider is in serious contention for a GT win, the same issues are going to arise.

By second fiddle I meant that Valverde will be a back-up option. Landa is highly inconsistent, so it's not unwise to have someone like Valverde as a reserve. Of Course if Landa proves he's up to the task, Valverde will fully dedicate to him. About stage wins question, I think Valverde is experienced enough to know when and where to try without jeopardizing Landa's overall ambitions.

 

[Moviestar]

The second fiddle thing is nothing new. Unzue usually prefers to have 2 leaders, Think of Delgado/Indurain, Mancebo/Menchov, Valverde/Pereiro and more recent Valverde/Quintana. ''May the best claim the leaderspot''

 

[Moviestar]

Moreno officially not resigned, not present at the first meeting today and according to his Instagram account he currently stays in Argentina. Dayer was present, so eventually he has been resigned despite the strong rumours of an exit.

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re:

The second fiddle thing is nothing new. Unzue usually prefers to have 2 leaders, Think of Delgado/Indurain, Mancebo/Menchov, Valverde/Pereiro and more recent Valverde/Quintana. ''May the best claim the leaderspot''

Exactly.

Glad Moreno is gone.

 

[Koronin]

Re:

Moreno officially not resigned, not present at the first meeting today and according to his Instagram account he currently stays in Argentina. Dayer was present, so eventually he has been resigned despite the strong rumours of an exit.

Since there was never an announcement concerning Dayer, I'm wondering if he contract wasn't up at the end of this season?

Not surprising about Moreno, but I thought when he signed the last contract that he said something about it being his final contract and he was retiring at the end of it. (I could be wrong on that.)

 

[mariposa]

Re: Re:

Since there was never an announcement concerning Dayer, I'm wondering if he contract wasn't up at the end of this season?

Not surprising about Moreno, but I thought when he signed the last contract that he said something about it being his final contract and he was retiring at the end of it. (I could be wrong on that.)[/quote]

I saw an announcement from Movistar about Dayer on Facebook yesterday, I think, but as I was really busy I only glanced at it. I have just tried to find it now and it seems to have disappeared. Anyway he is back for another year.

Yes I thought that Moreno had said he was retiring as well.

 

[el chava]

Dayer confirmed.

 

[Ricco']

The full team for 2018:

Amador, Andrey
Anacona, Winner
Arcas, Jorge
Barbero, Carlos
Bennati, Daniele
Betancur, Carlos
Bico, Nuno
Carapaz, Richard
Carretero, Hector
Castrillo, Jaime
De la Parte, Victor
Erviti, Imanol
Fernández, Ruben
Landa, Mikel
Oliveira, Nelson
Pedrero, Antonio
Quintana, Dayer
Quintana, Nairo
Rojas, José Joaquín
Rosón, Jaime
Sepúlveda, Eduardo
Soler, Marc
Sütterlin, Jasha
Valls, Rafa
Valverde, Alejandro


Despite all the leavings, not a bad squad at all. Amador, Anacona, Betancur, Carapaz, Fernandez, Landa, Quintana brothers, Roson, Sepúlveda, Soler, Valls and Bala provide enough firepower in the mountains.

 

[Movitrain]

And with Dayer, the roster for next year is complete (25 riders).

Certainly less depth due to team sizes, but the squad still looks concerningly thin regarding rouleurs. Some of this year's neo-pros will have to step up

 

[Netserk]

Mikel for the Giro-Tour double!

 

[Scarponi]

Re: Re:

The second fiddle thing is nothing new. Unzue usually prefers to have 2 leaders, Think of Delgado/Indurain, Mancebo/Menchov, Valverde/Pereiro and more recent Valverde/Quintana. ''May the best claim the leaderspot''

Exactly.

Glad Moreno is gone.

As in happy the younger guys will get his leaders spot in races ?

 

[Valv.Piti]

Re: Re:

The second fiddle thing is nothing new. Unzue usually prefers to have 2 leaders, Think of Delgado/Indurain, Mancebo/Menchov, Valverde/Pereiro and more recent Valverde/Quintana. ''May the best claim the leaderspot''

Exactly.

Glad Moreno is gone.

As in happy the younger guys will get his leaders spot in races ?

I have just been disappointed at him while he has been at Movistar, hasn't really done much at all. And he really isn't needed with all those climbers.

 

[Scarponi]

Re: Re:

The second fiddle thing is nothing new. Unzue usually prefers to have 2 leaders, Think of Delgado/Indurain, Mancebo/Menchov, Valverde/Pereiro and more recent Valverde/Quintana. ''May the best claim the leaderspot''

Exactly.

Glad Moreno is gone.

As in happy the younger guys will get his leaders spot in races ?

I have just been disappointed at him while he has been at Movistar, hasn't really done much at all. And he really isn't needed with all those climbers.

Yeah you would think he would be a monster domestique, wondered all year where he was. Wasn't even good in his normal murito role

 

[Koronin]

They made the announcement today with Dayer. I'm somewhat surprised they resigned him. He appears to be a waste of a roster spot. I'm guessing it's to keep Nairo happy. I just think there are plenty of Conti and Pro Conti riders or even U-23 riders out there much more deserving of that roster spot than he is.

I don't have an issue with Moreno not being resigned either. I also have been disappointed in how he's raced the last two seasons.

Next year's team is very lacking in depth. They have lost a lot of good domestiques over the past two seasons. To me they look more like a mid tier team than a top level team. If Valverde is close to what he was before the injury he will yet again save the team because of what he's capable of doing, but it's not looking good. The kids on the team are going to have to start stepping up.

 

[Salvarani]

Re:

They made the announcement today with Dayer. I'm somewhat surprised they resigned him. He appears to be a waste of a roster spot. I'm guessing it's to keep Nairo happy. I just think there are plenty of Conti and Pro Conti riders or even U-23 riders out there much more deserving of that roster spot than he is.

I don't have an issue with Moreno not being resigned either. I also have been disappointed in how he's raced the last two seasons.

Next year's team is very lacking in depth. They have lost a lot of good domestiques over the past two seasons. To me they look more like a mid tier team than a top level team. If Valverde is close to what he was before the injury he will yet again save the team because of what he's capable of doing, but it's not looking good. The kids on the team are going to have to start stepping up.

They look like a team with an average budget that cant spend a fortune on a whole team. Like other teams...

They got 3 riders that can win races. They got youth and potential in their team that can/should improve onto next season but that is what is uncertain as of now.

I think they just had to do the best thing they could do with what they got. Quintana was not at his best last year and with Valverde still a question mark after his injury... Landa was a priority in the transfer department since he was available. So they had to make choices and have to let go of others.

Without a salary cap teams with average budgets gotta make choices... that these other teams have the luxury of not having to think about.

 

[Koronin]

After reading some of the news from what's being said after the team meetings, I don't think the team knows what it's doing this year. Valverde keeps changing his mind on what he wants and truthfully until he decides his calendar the team can't really do much about anyone else's. Apparently he's changed his mind on the Tour and now they may send all 3 to it and they would all be co leaders, then send all 3 to the Vuelta with Valverde as sole leader. I'm thinking the team has no idea what it's doing at the moment.

 

[Escarabajo]

Aparently is all love now!

http://www.cyclingnews.com/news/movistar-ready-to-send-valverde-landa-and-quintana-to-tour-de-france/

“Having Mikel in the Tour would be good,” Quintana said. “Mikel is not a rival, he’s a teammate and together with Alejandro, it will be great for us to work together.”

All three riders emphasised that the kerfuffle following Mikel Landa’s recent declaration about the welcome - or lack of it - he got from Quintana in Movistar had been laid to rest.

“Reports of quarrels sell better than reports of everybody being friends,” Landa observed, adding he had been delighted by the welcome he had received in Movistar this week, where there was no language barrier now everyone speaks Spanish.

The lack of depth is solved by sending the three to the Tour!

 

[Zinoviev Letter]

Ahaha Unzue knocking heads together and then team pr putting words in rider's mouths. That's exactly what the team needed to do, instruct the riders to shut their cake holes unless they are going to sing from the team hymn sheet. We will see if it lasts.

 

[Koronin]

I still think Valverde needs to do the Giro/Vuelta double and skip the Tour. Although his comments today are actually a bit more getting in the middle of the whole who's actually going to lead the Tour issue than what he'd said previously which was completely staying out of it.