Team Sky Suggestions/Improvements

[Libertine Seguros]

I must be missing something because I have no idea who you're talking about in this post. They have a L-B-L winner? And what do you mean by "available to them"?

The former is Nicole Cooke, the middle is Emma Pooley, and the latter is Lizzie Armitstead.

Cooke won the Giro Donne, Worlds and Olympics.
Pooley won the Tour de l'Aude, QOM at the Giro, and the Flèche Wallonne (there is no LBL for women).
Armitstead won the maglia bianca last year.

All are road cyclists, and are amongst the elite. Look at Emma Pooley's UCI points ranking for the year. She is, by far and away, the best cyclist the Britons have got.

 

[jaylew]

Ah...women. I knew there was something fishy there.

 

[Nick C.]

They might try with a more respectful attitude. I mean their take on the Giro was beyond words. A first year team gets the Pink jersey and pooh poohs the whole idea, even pooh poohs the idea of Wiggo "making a proper go of it" if he was close in the third week. Then why bother showing up. I think that was the approach on a lot of races and it shows, they put all their eggs post March in the Wiggo at the Tour basket and he spent the Tour being one of the first name GC riders dropped every mountain stage.

 

[luckyboy]

I also think a U23 team would do them wonders in developing talent for the future, especially if they are interested in building a future British Tour Champion.

This does seem a pretty obvious thing now that I think about it.

 

[**Uru**]

The only way they will improve in the reasonably short term is to focus on smaller races next year and wait for Cav to be available for 2011. Then they can try to be what HTC is atm.

There is no way Wiggo will win the Tour unless all the guys who beat him this year retire,quit the sport or are banned. The sooner Sky realize this, the better.

 

[Mambo95]

They might try with a more respectful attitude. I mean their take on the Giro was beyond words. A first year team gets the Pink jersey and pooh poohs the whole idea, even pooh poohs the idea of Wiggo "making a proper go of it" if he was close in the third week. Then why bother showing up. I think that was the approach on a lot of races and it shows, they put all their eggs post March in the Wiggo at the Tour basket and he spent the Tour being one of the first name GC riders dropped every mountain stage.

The lost the Pink Jersey because of a crash. Same as Evans did the next day.

In stages they had 1 win, 2 seconds, 2 fourths, 2 fifths. They were top ten in just over half the stages. And Cioni came 17th (not great but quite good for him). Wiggins was in the top ten on GC until stage 15 (Zoncolan).

A lot of teams did worse.

 

[Clemson Cycling]

The wonders of bringing women's road cycling into the professional road racing forum

 

[bobbins]

BC have an under 23 team - based in Italy

Their season has been pretty good considering the riders they have.

Sunderlands departure helped morale by all accounts. He was absent for this years spring classics and the team went OK.

Experienced directeur sportives are lacking. They have had Dan Hunt for a few races. He's a good numbers man but hasn't raced a bike in his life. They need to bring on Rod Ellingworth and get some other former riders up to speed. They really do seem tactically stupid on too many occasions.

If they buy Cav, the team will probably lose focus so the real answer to Team Skys problems is to work out what they want to be and then stick to it.

 

[Nick C.]

The lost the Pink Jersey because of a crash. Same as Evans did the next day.

In stages they had 1 win, 2 seconds, 2 fourths, 2 fifths. They were top ten in just over half the stages. And Cioni came 17th (not great but quite good for him). Wiggins was in the top ten on GC until stage 15 (Zoncolan).

A lot of teams did worse.

Weren't they going around or Brailsford saying they would rather finish 5th in the Tour than win the Giro. It all seemed like putting the cart before the horse. As for the results, they are nice certainly but more along the lines of good for an AG2R type team not such a big budget team. Maybe if they were just modest I wouldn't give a **** or find them annoying, but then again I could say that about a lot of people and squads.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

The wonders of bringing women's road cycling into the professional road racing forum

Well, considering that they label themselves as being dedicated to promoting cycling in the UK, and have their various promotional things, and are happy to point at Cooke's Olympic kit as evidence of how advanced and clever they are, yet refuse point blank to involve themselves with a women's team even though they have much more successful racers in the women's game, and even when Nicole Cooke is forced to beg for money from them, it's a bit of a nonsense to say that there's only one elite road racer in Britain - it's just that Team Sky are hypocrites and don't care about most of them.

 

[Jamsque]

I had kind of assumed that when Sky got in to the road game they would sponsor a women's team too, since they sponsor both the men and women on the track, but obviously Murdoch's priority was exposure and not actual promotion of the sport. Britain's female cyclists are hugely successful on the road but get little to no support. Nicole Cooke's career has been all but crippled these past few years because she has had to keep jumping from team to team and has had no support.

 

[simoni]

Well, considering that they label themselves as being dedicated to promoting cycling in the UK, and have their various promotional things, and are happy to point at Cooke's Olympic kit as evidence of how advanced and clever they are, yet refuse point blank to involve themselves with a women's team even though they have much more successful racers in the women's game, and even when Nicole Cooke is forced to beg for money from them, it's a bit of a nonsense to say that there's only one elite road racer in Britain - it's just that Team Sky are hypocrites and don't care about most of them.

Replace "Team Sky" with "Sky" and you may very well be right. Obviously British Cycling and Team Sky involve many of the same people so its not a personal thing. The fact is that womens pro-level cycling makes no impact whatsoever here and would offer little value to a sponsor. The Olympics is different - men and women - the great british publics aren't bothered!

 

[Libertine Seguros]

Replace "Team Sky" with "Sky" and you may very well be right. Obviously British Cycling and Team Sky involve many of the same people so its not a personal thing. The fact is that womens pro-level cycling makes no impact whatsoever here and would offer little value to a sponsor. The Olympics is different - men and women - the great british publics aren't bothered!

But how can they ever be bothered if they don't even know what's going on? Sky is a TV station, or group of them. They could air races, even if it's in late night slots, and push them. But they don't. They don't care about developing or promoting cycling in the UK at all, they just want a piece of the pie. And British Cycling are no better - remember how the Halfords team folded, and became a men's team, the second the Olympics were over?

 

[Sneekes]

Weren't they going around or Brailsford saying they would rather finish 5th in the Tour than win the Giro. It all seemed like putting the cart before the horse. As for the results, they are nice certainly but more along the lines of good for an AG2R type team not such a big budget team. Maybe if they were just modest I wouldn't give a **** or find them annoying, but then again I could say that about a lot of people and squads.

To be fair to Sky - they seem to have learned their lesson - the more arrogant quotes are almost all from before the season started.
Maybe in a few years people will have forgotten the arrogance (not having a go at you here Nick) and will judge Sky on their performances?

 

[bobbins]

But how can they ever be bothered if they don't even know what's going on? Sky is a TV station, or group of them. They could air races, even if it's in late night slots, and push them. But they don't. They don't care about developing or promoting cycling in the UK at all, they just want a piece of the pie. And British Cycling are no better - remember how the Halfords team folded, and became a men's team, the second the Olympics were over?

They don't have the rights to show the races so they can't just show them. Remember that they have shown the TDU and the ToC.

Check out the Sky rides that they are doing - do you think that these just happen or do Sky spend a shed load of money on them? They want to get a million more people on bikes and are more interested in that than getting a tour winner. Being responsible for getting that many new cyclists and improving the nations health is a far more tangible thing for them and will leave a good legacy for what many perceive to be a greedy corporate monolith.

Nicole Cooke is a special case and struggles for teams for various reasons. The other girls are placed with teams already. Lastly, womens racing is rubbish

 

[Libertine Seguros]

They don't have the rights to show the races so they can't just show them. Remember that they have shown the TDU and the ToC.

But considering that there is no presence for it, it would be dirt cheap to pick up more of them.

Check out the Sky rides that they are doing - do you think that these just happen or do Sky spend a shed load of money on them? They want to get a million more people on bikes and are more interested in that than getting a tour winner. Being responsible for getting that many new cyclists and improving the nations health is a far more tangible thing for them and will leave a good legacy for what many perceive to be a greedy corporate monolith.

Are you an employee or something? I don't believe that Sky care one bit about it. It's just PR. One million more people on bikes = care for planet blah blah blah. If Team Sky is just a way to promote this, then why should it only apply to half the population? It's not like T-Mobile or Cervélo, TopSport Vlaanderen, Rabobank, Lotto or Fundación Euskadi lose out big style by having women's teams. And if Team Sky isn't just a way to promote their one million more bike riders, then they're hypocrites for excluding the women.

Nicole Cooke is a special case and struggles for teams for various reasons. The other girls are placed with teams already. Lastly, womens racing is rubbish .

Cooke is hard to work with, sure, but she's somebody who Brailsford is already in with (and when Team Sky launched they took credit for her Olympic gold medal); there was a whole team structure there, begging for money. It wouldn't have cost that much out of the stupidly high budget to pick up a women's team, which was already there and included a few established names; they could have slowly metamorphosed it into a more British team. Would we really have missed Team Sky's presence at a handful of flyaway races to account for it? I doubt it.

Women's racing is only as rubbish as you go into watching it thinking it will be, and maybe few care about it, but people can't care about it if they don't know it even exists. There have been an awful lot of men's races this season that I've seen that have been rubbish, boring and pathetic. There were three straight days in the Tour de France where Columbia held the break at 2 minutes for 100km+, while in Italy the women were having a battle royale in the Italian Alps and Dolomites. It's easy to say something is rubbish because you don't care about the participants, but if you DO care about the participants you are often willing to put up with a LOT of nothing happening, and you'll think it's interesting.

There's half a population that they're selling cycling as "don't even bother, if you have a vagina you aren't worth our time" to. Once upon a time, women's athletics and women's tennis were nothing compared to the men's events, and nobody cared or paid them any attention. But over time and with care and attention, they developed to the point where they are the equal of the men's events. Attitudes like yours and Sky's will only perpetuate women being seen as lesser and irrelevant, and that's simply not fair.

 

[Jamsque]

Sky ARE a greedy corporate monolith, they have NO interest in improving the nation's health (they are a TV company for chrissakes!), and EVERY interest in increased brand exposure and a better public image.

Also, women's racing is great and shut up.

[edit]OK Libertine just made my point for me in a much better way.

 

[Waterloo Sunrise]

Attitudes like yours and Sky's will only perpetuate women being seen as lesser and irrelevant, and that's simply not fair.

You really are unhinged when it comes to Sky aren't you.


Don't invest in a women's cycling team which will never generate any kind of return for them =mysoginist pigs.

Seriously, hate them for all the other reasons you're always so willing to spout, but give this one up.

And purely for the record, women are objectively lesser cyclists, whether it accords with your agenda or not. Fortunately they've got a head start on rather more useful skills like multi-tasking and paying attention in school between the ages of 12-15.

 

[theyoungest]

You really are unhinged when it comes to Sky aren't you.


Don't invest in a women's cycling team which will never generate any kind of return for them =mysoginist pigs.

Seriously, hate them for all the other reasons you're always so willing to spout, but give this one up.

And purely for the record, women are objectively lesser cyclists, whether it accords with your agenda or not. Fortunately they've got a head start on rather more useful skills like multi-tasking and paying attention in school between the ages of 12-15.

White people are objectively lesser sportsmen. I don't know why they even bother.

 

[Jamsque]

'Objectively lesser cyclists' doesn't mean the racing is less exciting, and your condescending pat-on-the-head about multi-tasking and test scores doesn't make you sound any less sexist.

 

[Libertine Seguros]

You really are unhinged when it comes to Sky aren't you.


Don't invest in a women's cycling team which will never generate any kind of return for them =mysoginist pigs.

Seriously, hate them for all the other reasons you're always so willing to spout, but give this one up.

And purely for the record, women are objectively lesser cyclists, whether it accords with your agenda or not. Fortunately they've got a head start on rather more useful skills like multi-tasking and paying attention in school between the ages of 12-15.

women athletes are objectively lesser athletes than the men (Veronica Campbell-Brown cannot run as fast as Usain Bolt), but that doesn't stop their sport from seeing them as equal to their male counterparts.

It's not about them not sponsoring a women's team. It's about the hypocrisy. If it really is about getting more cyclists out there, then leaving half the population out of the equation seems stupid. If they weren't coming out with all these quotes and PR nonsense about revolutionising cycling with this and that and wanting to promote cycling to all and sundry, then they could be forgiven for not running a women's team on the basis that it isn't profitable (and we all know full well that that's the only thing they really care about). But then it's a bit of a low blow to then take credit for Nicole Cooke's achievements, trumping them up as evidence of how advanced and awesome they are, at the same time as they're telling her that her and her rivals count for nothing.

That is what I find so frustrating.

And you think I have a problem with Team Sky? Why don't you just bring up HTC-Columbia, Team Sky are absolute heroes of mine compared to those boredom machines.

 

[Barrus]

Stop with the stuff about discussing women's cycling in general, take that to its own topic. We don't need some of the embarrassing statements in here

 

[Anonymous]

I dont think its possible, the way he was hanging on at the Tour mainly near the back of the field and miles down on GC this time. Great domestique and hard flat terrain rider and he should stay that way., but i dont think he's a 3 week tour rider.

Cummings has admitted to being completely knackered in the tour, and has already said that if he was asked to do the tour again he would ride something other than the giro. Hes a 3 week rider, but hes not by his own admission a 2 grand tour a season rider.

"my first tour was extremely difficult. I was struggling, i think my form wasnt as good as early in the season at the giro. I really suffered. I dont think that doing two grand tours is right for me. If they wanted me to do the tour again i would do something other than the giro. When you are tired i think thats when you find yourself worrying about staing in the bunch." cyclesport mag

 

[Reverend_T_Preedy]

Attitudes like yours and Sky's will only perpetuate women being seen as lesser and irrelevant, and that's simply not fair.

Although I disagree with his point in almost every way, he has every right to an opinion and is free to express it. Just because you don't agree with it doesn't mean he is not entitled to it.

By the way, do I feel bad for Nicole Cooke? No, she's a difficult person to work with who is paid very well by British Cycling. You have to ask why she isn't riding for one of the big womens pro teams.

That said, I agree Sky should have a womens team. I hope it happens next year or the year after but I think to set that up at the same time of the mens was a bit much to ask.

 

[Mambo95]

And you think I have a problem with Team Sky? Why don't you just bring up HTC-Columbia, Team Sky are absolute heroes of mine compared to those boredom machines.

HTC-Columbia, of course, being one of biggest supporters of women's cycling. You just like disliking people and you're trying to find any feeble reason to do so.