Ted King

[Waterloo Sunrise]

I just hope they strictly follow the rules when the next mountain stage hits and Cav finishes it the week after.

If Cav misses the time limit, he will be in a very large group and he'll be the only one punished in that group.

 

[Microchip]

Team Cannondale could have left a rider with Ted, but there was the possibility of two riders then being cut. I lay the blame on ASO/UCI Race Jury. His accident was caused by the bus, and finish line change Stage 1. Come on, 7 seconds, this is just too brutal on the judges part. They should be ashamed.

7 seconds. Exactly. I don't think they'd have lost 2 riders with King doing all the work himself and only ending 7 seconds short. I think both would have made the cut for sure.

I liked the Velonews article. But from the comments above, it looks like Velonews did more campaigning for him than Cannondale.

 

[Boeing]

Perhaps Cannondale has a rider who they think may podium.

And the TdF has waived rules for riders who finish out of the time limit in the past (according to the media).

They weren't American and I think one was Cav. They wanted him for Champs sprint.

 

[Microchip]

i just hope they strictly follow the rules when the next mountain stage hits and cav finishes it the week after.

lol!!

 

[Boeing]

NBC Sports making Ted cry on TV and running it over and over is poor opportunistic journalism.

although he will be a folk hero now.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Can somebody recall the last time somebody was rescued from elimination by the commissaires for a TTT in a Grand Tour? (I don't remember, and am too lazy right now to look)

 

[Boeing]

Another question might be: Was he truly in any condition to finish the race just for the sake of it?

 

[TheBean]

Can somebody recall the last time somebody was rescued from elimination by the commissaires for a TTT in a Grand Tour? (I don't remember, and am too lazy right now to look)

I can't, and am also too lazy.

But, Cav was allowed to continue racing (and eventually won the green jersey that year) after missing the time cut in the mountains a couple years back.

The whole peleton was given a free ride after the motorcycle-crash-leading-to-an-oil-slicked-road incident a few years ago.

This year's first stage also saw the commissaires giving leniency for extenuating circumstances.

I'm not sure if Zabriski (in yellow) was given a break the year he crashed during the TTT, but that would be a good place to check. Of course, since the crash occured during the stage rather than the rider missing the cut dur to injuries from a prior stage, the circumstances are pretty different.

 

[MacRoadie]

Another question might be: Was he truly in any condition to finish the race just for the sake of it?

Again, that begs the question: If he wasn't (and I'm in no way suggesting he was) in any condition to participate in the rest of the Tour, then he shouldn't have been put in the position he was in.

It's obvious from the choice of bike he rode that it was understood that he was going to be in difficulty, and I'm sure he was very vocal in his desire to ride (maybe even over the objections of the team and team doctors), but once the team allowed him to line up with the other 8 riders, there was a commitment to do their best to help him finish.

If helping him was contrary to the greater goal of the team, they shouldn't have let him start, just to leave him behind at the bottom of the ramp.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

I can't, and am also too lazy.

But, Cav was allowed to continue racing (and eventually won the green jersey that year) after missing the time cut in the mountains a couple years back.

The whole peleton was given a free ride after the motorcycle-crash-leading-to-an-oil-slicked-road incident a few years ago.

This year's first stage also saw the commissaires giving leniency for extenuating circumstances.

I'm not sure if Zabriski (in yellow) was given a break the year he crashed during the TTT, but that would be a good place to check. Of course, since the crash occured during the stage rather than the rider missing the cut dur to injuries from a prior stage, the circumstances are pretty different.

There's a difference between in the mountains (where you're probably in a groupetto of riders that makes up 20% or more of the participants) and in a TTT (where you're almost certainly on your own).

FYI, Zabriskie was not given a break on his time, but he wasn't in a place to be eliminated. He crossed the line 1:26 behind his teammates, well within the time limit.

 

[ToreBear]

Saw an interview with Jens where he said he was carrying the MJ and was ejected after coming 42s off the pace in a mountain stage.

I doubt this would have made that much noise if King was not American.

Anyway, seems kind of like Cannondale had already given him up since they didn't try to help him finish.

 

[hrotha]

I think this has been blown out of proportion because Ted King is a nice Anglophone guy and quite visible on Twitter. I feel bad for him, but I don't think they should have allowed him to stay after missing the time cut - just like I don't think anyone should, barring extraordinary circumstances.

 

[gooner]

I think this has been blown out of proportion because Ted King is a nice Anglophone guy and quite visible on Twitter. I feel bad for him, but I don't think they should have allowed him to stay after missing the time cut - just like I don't think anyone should, barring extraordinary circumstances.

I said this exactly on twitter yesterday. Anto Moran said that last November the UCI published a newsletter saying the rules regarding time limits would be strictly enforced. The teams were warned. All this now is just sentiment thinking.

 

[Microchip]

...I don't think they should have allowed him to stay after missing the time cut - just like I don't think anyone should, barring extraordinary circumstances.

Yes, this is true. However, they (the officials) have shown several times that they would have “consideration” for a rider’s circumstances, so they’ve set their own precedent. Now, the comparisons make them appear biased toward a rider’s status.

 

[hrotha]

Yes, this is true. However, they (the officials) have shown several times that they would have “consideration” for a rider’s circumstances, so they’ve set their own precedent. Now, the comparisons make them appear biased toward a rider’s status.

Yes, but as gooner said, a blank sheet was announced, and this new beginning was long overdue if you ask me. The time limit had become a joke.

 

[Microchip]

Yes, but as gooner said, a blank sheet was announced, and this new beginning was long overdue if you ask me. The time limit had become a joke.

I see.

Still, the quote from the book still allows for his circumstances I think. Especially because the moving of the finish line back and forth was unfair to all of them.

 

[ToreBear]

Yes, this is true. However, they (the officials) have shown several times that they would have “consideration” for a rider’s circumstances, so they’ve set their own precedent. Now, the comparisons make them appear biased toward a rider’s status.

It's a matter of the comparisons made. Also, it's how you interpret the rules.

For example one could say cavendish did'nt make the time cut in xxxxx and he got to continue. Then neglect to mention that the grupetto he was in was over 20% of the peleton.

So comparisons can easily be made to be misleading, both intentionally and unintentionally.

 

[Afrank]

Really sad that King didn't make the cut. I can see both sides of this one.
On one hand rules are rules, and if you make an exception for King then it's not going to be fair if you throw out the next rider that misses the time cut.

On the other hand coming 7 seconds back of the time cut in a TTT is very small. And I don't think it would harm anything or anyone to just allow him to ride for now (if his injuries are really bad then then he might have left the race later anyways). Plus there is the issue of his clock saying he would have been in the time limit. If his clock is correct, then kicking him out was very wrong.

Cannondale of course also share some of the blame in this, would have been good to have one guy stay back with him and help him. The silver lining in all this is he will be able to heal up for the rest of the season. Would have preferred to see them make and exception and for him to be able to ride of course, but can't complain too much about the decision. As ASO in this case is just following the regulations they've set out.

 

[Afrank]

Why did Cannondale put him on a roadbike with clips anyway? That's a minute right there. The team has to share blame with the jury.

Anyway, this should set the standard for the rest of the race. If the grupetto misses the time limit one day and the jury lets them continue they'll take some well-deserved abuse. It's not like King was asking for charity either, it's in the rules that exceptions can be made for riders who are outside the time limit.

I think he was unable to ride his TT bike with his injuries. So chose to ride his road bike. Might have something to do with road bikes generally having more comfortable positions then TT bikes.

 

[Microchip]

Really sad that King didn't make the cut. I can see both sides of this one.
On one hand rules are rules, and if you make an exception for King then it's not going to be fair if you throw out the next rider that misses the time cut.

On the other hand coming 7 seconds back of the time cut in a TTT is very small. And I don't think it would harm anything or anyone to just allow him to ride for now (if his injuries are really bad then then he might have left the race later anyways). Plus there is the issue of his clock saying he would have been in the time limit. If his clock is correct, then kicking him out was very wrong.

Cannondale of course also share some of the blame in this, would have been good to have one guy stay back with him and help him. The silver lining in all this is he will be able to heal up for the rest of the season.

Right. So a situation must have pros and cons; but there are more good and fair reasons to allow him to stay than there are cons.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Yes, but as gooner said, a blank sheet was announced, and this new beginning was long overdue if you ask me. The time limit had become a joke.

FYI, the rule still does exist that anybody brought back from an HD situation has the winners' points from that stage taken away from the green jersey race. Not sure how that would affect things, however, given that Ted King does not care about his own standing in the green jersey race, and also, given that no points were awarded for the green jersey yesterday!

 

[Afrank]

Right. So a situation must have pros and cons; but there are more good and fair reasons to allow him to stay than there are cons.

Yep, I agree with that.

 

[hrotha]

It's a matter of the comparisons made. Also, it's how you interpret the rules.

For example one could say cavendish did'nt make the time cut in xxxxx and he got to continue. Then neglect to mention that the grupetto he was in was over 20% of the peleton.

So comparisons can easily be made to be misleading, both intentionally and unintentionally.

For what it's worth, those grupetto-friendly time limit exceptions are BS. If something truly extraordinary happened, then by all means, allow the grupetto to continue. Otherwise, kick them all out. You can do perfectly well with less than 100 riders in the peloton.

In the 17th stage of the 1998 Giro, 34 riders out of 132 were OOT (most notably Michele Bartoli). The race lost 25% of its riders, but everything was fine.

 

[ToreBear]

Right. So a situation must have pros and cons; but there are more good and fair reasons to allow him to stay than there are cons.

Try listing the pros and cons, and see if anyone has any cons that might persuade you that there were more cons than pros.

For what it's worth, those grupetto-friendly time limit exceptions are BS. If something truly extraordinary happened, then by all means, allow the grupetto to continue. Otherwise, kick them all out. You can do perfectly well with less than 100 riders in the peloton.

In the 17th stage of the 1998 Giro, 34 riders out of 132 were OOT (most notably Michele Bartoli). The race lost 25% of its riders, but everything was fine.

I think it's in the UCI rules. Rules might need changing, but that is another issue.

 

[MacRoadie]

You can spend all day arguing about time cuts in general.

- How uniformly are they applied?
- Are they open to interpretation? (commissaires taking unique situations into consideration).
- Are they open to abuse? (the classic "groupetto finish")
- The very fact that they are somewhat arbitrary (varying % of winner's time, arrived at by some formula that might include swinging three cats over your head in a burlap sack).

My point in starting the thread wasn't to critique the application of the rule. King did finish 7 seconds outside the time limit no matter how you slice it. My point was merely to point out that his own team played a real role in his unfortunate outcome especially since he only missed the cut by 7 seconds...