Tejay Van Garderen Discussion Thread

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Jan 13, 2012
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kurtinsc said:
Not sure what you mean here. The guy's ridden in the Tour de France (82nd), Vuelta a Espana (35th), tour de suisse (11th), Pais Vasco (66th), Paris-Nice (31st), LBL (18th), Algarve (2nd, 9th), and the Dauphine Libere (4th).

Granted, those aren't blow-your-socks-off results, but you make it sound like he's only ridden US domestic races. He's been in quite a few fairly large european races, and ridden near the front. He's also done quite a bit of domestique work in those races. He's got a pretty decent selection of races ridden for a guy who's only had 2 years as a pro.
I never said tj is not awesome. I couldn't touch him, however like Tyson and Ali, don't call the round unless you know. or as the Babe would point where he would put it before he put it right there in the stands.
He needs to ride the important races in Europe, and stay away from Cali, Utah, and Colorado.
 
Jun 16, 2009
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The Plediadian said:
I never said tj is not awesome. I couldn't touch him, however like Tyson and Ali, don't call the round unless you know. or as the Babe would point where he would put it before he put it right there in the stands.
He needs to ride the important races in Europe, and stay away from Cali, Utah, and Colorado.
Like it or not, California and Colorado have developed massive global races with top level competition. California has a lot of top riders going their with some strong form. California is a top level race.
 
auscyclefan94 said:
Like it or not, California and Colorado have developed massive global races with top level competition. California has a lot of top riders going their with some strong form. California is a top level race.
First edition Colorado, in August, seriously?
Not sure how you figure that was top level competition.

I assume The Plediadian feels TJVG needs further, high level schooling in Europe, because that is where the GTs take place and the racing is somewhat different to the US.

Dekker_Tifosi's assessment, imo, tells it as it currently is.
 
Jan 11, 2010
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auscyclefan94 said:
Like it or not, California and Colorado have developed massive global races with top level competition. California has a lot of top riders going their with some strong form. California is a top level race.
California is a decent race, but only taken seriously by the Americans. Last year the top 5 spots were taken by Americans, ahead of Laurens ten Dam as the first European.

In what was apparently his main season goal, Tejay was 5th, 3 seconds ahead of Ten Dam, who outclimbed him at every opportunity. Doesn't scream "future GT contender" to me.
 
Mar 11, 2009
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The Plediadian said:
I never said tj is not awesome. I couldn't touch him, however like Tyson and Ali, don't call the round unless you know. or as the Babe would point where he would put it before he put it right there in the stands.
He needs to ride the important races in Europe, and stay away from Cali, Utah, and Colorado.
Dude you're talking gibberish. A guy posts that he has ridden Tour, Vuelta, Suisse, Pais Vasco, Liege, Paris Nice and after making some WTF references to Ali, Tyson and Ruth get bent out of shape b/c he rode in Utah and Colorado in August when the Europeans that aren't doing the worlds have pretty much wrapped things up.

You act as if he's missing the spring in Europe to do Battenkill and the Central Park series.
 
will10 said:
Ever been upset with how you've ridden? It's not uncommon.

I don't know whether or not TJ was being a prima donna and throwing his toys out the pram because he didn't win, but it's not the only possibility.
I took a wrong turn when about to win a race. Actually the last turn. I finished third or fourth but did not throw anything, just felt a bit silly but was later handed a win for a race that my friend actually won. It was close but I looked across when we hit the line and he won by 6 inches or so. We both went to the starter after the race to advise that the result was wrong but he would not listen. I offered my winnings to my friend but he refused and gave me the silent treatment on the ride home. He got over it quickly. Club cycling, gotta love it !
 
Jan 13, 2012
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Nick C. said:
Dude you're talking gibberish. A guy posts that he has ridden Tour, Vuelta, Suisse, Pais Vasco, Liege, Paris Nice and after making some WTF references to Ali, Tyson and Ruth get bent out of shape b/c he rode in Utah and Colorado in August when the Europeans that aren't doing the worlds have pretty much wrapped things up.

You act as if he's missing the spring in Europe to do Battenkill and the Central Park series.
I am sorry, I was really out of line about Mr. Tejay Van Garten. When Versus fires up again, in the late spring of 2012, I will take my advice during the third GT,(Tour of California,) about Mr. Van Garten from the two amigos, the sages of cycling, Phil et Paul.
 
movingtarget said:
I took a wrong turn when about to win a race. Actually the last turn. I finished third or fourth but did not throw anything, just felt a bit silly but was later handed a win for a race that my friend actually won. It was close but I looked across when we hit the line and he won by 6 inches or so. We both went to the starter after the race to advise that the result was wrong but he would not listen. I offered my winnings to my friend but he refused and gave me the silent treatment on the ride home. He got over it quickly. Club cycling, gotta love it !
I feel for this guy http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDqFQGVkjwM :D
 
The Plediadian said:
I never said tj is not awesome. I couldn't touch him, however like Tyson and Ali, don't call the round unless you know. or as the Babe would point where he would put it before he put it right there in the stands.
He needs to ride the important races in Europe, and stay away from Cali, Utah, and Colorado.
He's American. Why would/should he stay away from the most important races in one's home country? As was posted earlier you imply that he's exclusively racing in the US, when that is obviously not the case.
 
theyoungest said:
California is a decent race, but only taken seriously by the Americans. Last year the top 5 spots were taken by Americans, ahead of Laurens ten Dam as the first European.

In what was apparently his main season goal, Tejay was 5th, 3 seconds ahead of Ten Dam, who outclimbed him at every opportunity. Doesn't scream "future GT contender" to me.
True that, but let's not forget that there are tons of GT winners who had barely showed anything at all at the age of TVG.
 
May 23, 2010
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I have hopes that he may be able to pace Evans for more than 1km when the final climbs start at the Tour. Be a nice change for him.

I'm still waiting for Moinard to climb.
 
Jan 13, 2012
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Angliru said:
He's American. Why would/should he stay away from the most important races in one's home country? As was posted earlier you imply that he's exclusively racing in the US, when that is obviously not the case.
1st, his career will develop quicker by racing in a more competitive environment. Europe, especially in Spain and Italy. Look how much time Leipheimer and Horner wasted by racing domestically. They lost half their careers here in the USA.
Secondly, it will be a sad day when TJ gets beat by old farts Leipheimer, Horner, Mancebo, DZ, in the TOC, Utah, and Colorado.
I hate to see tj have his ego crushed.
 
The Plediadian said:
1st, his career will develop quicker by racing in a more competitive environment. Europe, especially in Spain and Italy. Look how much time Leipheimer and Horner wasted by racing domestically. They lost half their careers here in the USA.
Secondly, it will be a sad day when TJ gets beat by old farts Leipheimer, Horner, Mancebo, DZ, in the TOC, Utah, and Colorado.
I hate to see tj have his ego crushed.
You do realise Horner spent most of his time in the US because he couldnt cut it in Europe first time around with Lfdjeux. If you had asked most people who Horner was in 98-99, you would have got a blank stare yet he had been racing in Europe for 2-3 years. Simply wasnt good enough so cut his losses and ran for home.

Leipheimer took a while to make it to the top in the US but was never dominant like Horner was early 00s. He was a non-entity on Postal until he popped up out of nowhere with that Vuelta podium in 01. Most people had never heard of him because like Horner he wasnt actually very good. These guys (Horner & Leipheimer) are riding better now than they were in their mid to late 20s so go figure.

Van Garderen spends most of his year racing in Europe apart for these 3 races in the US so I am not sure why you are comparing him to Horner and Leipheimer who rode for domestic US teams doing a US dominated calendar. They only raced sparingly outside the US.

Tbh, whilst the US races do get too much hyperbole, they are at least equal if not higher in quality to most smaller Spanish, Italian races or do you really believe the likes of Murcia, Asturias, Burgos, Sardinia, Coppi y Bartali are higher than California or Colordao.

Personally I dont think TJVG is going to be a big GT rider. As otherse have said somewhere around the level of Brajkovic or even Leipheimer looks about his limit.
 
Jan 13, 2012
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pmcg76 said:
You do realise Horner spent most of his time in the US because he couldnt cut it in Europe first time around with Lfdjeux. If you had asked most people who Horner was in 98-99, you would have got a blank stare yet he had been racing in Europe for 2-3 years. Simply wasnt good enough so cut his losses and ran for home.

Leipheimer took a while to make it to the top in the US but was never dominant like Horner was early 00s. He was a non-entity on Postal until he popped up out of nowhere with that Vuelta podium in 01. Most people had never heard of him because like Horner he wasnt actually very good. These guys (Horner & Leipheimer) are riding better now than they were in their mid to late 20s so go figure.

Van Garderen spends most of his year racing in Europe apart for these 3 races in the US so I am not sure why you are comparing him to Horner and Leipheimer who rode for domestic US teams doing a US dominated calendar. They only raced sparingly outside the US.

Tbh, whilst the US races do get too much hyperbole, they are at least equal if not higher in quality to most smaller Spanish, Italian races or do you really believe the likes of Murcia, Asturias, Burgos, Sardinia, Coppi y Bartali are higher than California or Colordao.

Personally I dont think TJVG is going to be a big GT rider. As otherse have said somewhere around the level of Brajkovic or even Leipheimer looks about his limit.
Teejay is good, no doubt, he can climb and TT.
I just hope he keeps up the good work. 4th in Dauphine is quite awesome.
I do support the American races also. I think California and Utah are quite awesome. I am looking forward to seeing Teejay compete in them.

Levi riding the Vuelta in 2001 was shocking. I turned on the TV and went wow.

I just wonder if the stress of riding races in Europe, including the not so good ones will serve Teejay in his maturation process.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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pmcg76 said:
....


Tbh, whilst the US races do get too much hyperbole, they are at least equal if not higher in quality to most smaller Spanish, Italian races or do you really believe the likes of Murcia, Asturias, Burgos, Sardinia, Coppi y Bartali are higher than California or Colordao.
i do not think this statement is correct.
maybe ToC, and only this year colorado and utah can be compared to european races.
competition is harder in europe even if the level of cycling in usa is getting better and better.
it is not question of top riders, but in europe the average level of the peloton is higher.
i think that TVG needs to race in europe.
he has to improve his tactics and also he needs to adjust its tactical choices to his real level, not to his ambition .
just think of melinda trophy two years ago or le tour. he needs to learn when to attack, when to hammer and pace.
up tonow, his ambition are greater than his level.
i think he will be good for him if he can stay more time in the front group in the tour and have the chance sometime to play his cards in one week race.
 
gooner said:
I see him as someone who could be like Wiggins or Millar.

He could get top 10s in GTs and where he could really excel is the week long races like Paris-Nice and Dauphine. Remember he has finished 3rd in the Dauphine already.

Judging by his interview in velonews he has big ambitions for the season ahead and is very confident indeed.

http://velonews.competitor.com/2012/02/news/van-garderen-‘i-want-to-win-a-gc-this-year’_205178
It seems he has a reasonable aspiration: win a stage-race

VN.com: So working toward … what? Winning everything you start?!

TVG: Well, building toward the Tour and being part of a Tour-winning team. I do want to win a GC. I had my first pro win last year at the Tour of Utah in the time trial, that was good to get that under my belt. The next step in that progression would be to win a GC, whether that would be California or Paris-Nice or Colorado, even something like Tour d’Ain or Algarve. Being last year in Colorado with the jersey, it’s not easy to handle that stress of having the jersey. So if I can learn to handle that stress and deliver a GC win in the end, that would be a big step.
 
Nov 17, 2009
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The Plediadian said:
I never said tj is not awesome. I couldn't touch him, however like Tyson and Ali, don't call the round unless you know. or as the Babe would point where he would put it before he put it right there in the stands.
He needs to ride the important races in Europe, and stay away from Cali, Utah, and Colorado.
What races do you think he needs to drop those US domest races for?

It's not like he's avoiding european stage races. He's ridden a pretty large selection of them in the last 2 years which I listed earlier.

If he's not riding the Giro in a given year because he's targeting the Tour (last year) or the Vuelta (year before), what would you want him to ride instead of California? In August, do you think he would have benefitted significantly more from riding the Tour of Poland?

The only european race of any significance for a "GC type" that any of those US stage races conflict with is the Giro... and if you are riding another GT you often won't ride the Giro even if you are in europe. If you're riding in Europe from february through april, then June and July, then September on... what do you miss of any significance aside from the Giro?

I don't get the point you are making by saying he's not riding the important races in Europe. TDF, Vuelta, Dauphine Libere, Paris-Nice, Tour de Suisse, Pais-Vasco, Liege-Bastogne-Liege as well as lesser races like Algarve and L'Ain. What exactly do you think he missed out on race wise in the last 2 years?
 
Nov 17, 2009
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The Plediadian said:
I am sorry, I was really out of line about Mr. Tejay Van Garten. When Versus fires up again, in the late spring of 2012, I will take my advice during the third GT,(Tour of California,) about Mr. Van Garten from the two amigos, the sages of cycling, Phil et Paul.
Your sarcasm is noted, but it's simply dumb.

Let me know...

WHAT RACES HAS HE MISSED THAT YOU THINK HE SHOULD RIDE.

Do you really think it's a huge deal for his development that instead of tuning down after the Tour with a race in Poland, he's instead riding in Utah and Colorado? Do you really think it's bad that unlike the people who aren't riding the Giro who go into a pure training mode, instead he's racing in California? Heck most of the guys prepping for the Tour rode in California anyway this past year (it was just only americans who put forth an effort). There's no big european race on the calendar at that point now that Catalunya moved to late march.

He's riding US races that don't conflict with european ones. How exactly is that hurting him?
 
profff said:
i do not think this statement is correct.
maybe ToC, and only this year colorado and utah can be compared to european races.
competition is harder in europe even if the level of cycling in usa is getting better and better.
it is not question of top riders, but in europe the average level of the peloton is higher.
i think that TVG needs to race in europe.
he has to improve his tactics and also he needs to adjust its tactical choices to his real level, not to his ambition .
just think of melinda trophy two years ago or le tour. he needs to learn when to attack, when to hammer and pace.
up tonow, his ambition are greater than his level.
i think he will be good for him if he can stay more time in the front group in the tour and have the chance sometime to play his cards in one week race.
Obviously you have a comprehension problem, thats exactly what I said in regards to races. Look again at the races I listed, do you really think the quality is miles higher than Colorado, Claifornia. I am not alking ProTour European races here, I am talking about the lesser races.

As others have pointed, TJVG does enough top European races and isnt really missing out on any important races when he is in the US. If he doesnt develop into a star rider, it wont be because he rode in Cali, Utah or Colorado.
 
Oct 16, 2010
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i am not talking about european world tour races.
i believe that the competition level in europe is , at the moment, higher.
in other words it is more difficult to shine in sardinia, coppi and bartali , algarve and so on than in utah or colorado.
if i did not comprehend, i beg your pardon , master.

anyway , i agree with you on the point that tjvg development does not depends on the fact that he runs three weeks or so in the usa.
i think he has to try to win some european minor races, not just try to hold in the pro tour races.
 
Jan 13, 2012
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kurtinsc said:
Your sarcasm is noted, but it's simply dumb.

Let me know...

WHAT RACES HAS HE MISSED THAT YOU THINK HE SHOULD RIDE.

Do you really think it's a huge deal for his development that instead of tuning down after the Tour with a race in Poland, he's instead riding in Utah and Colorado? Do you really think it's bad that unlike the people who aren't riding the Giro who go into a pure training mode, instead he's racing in California? Heck most of the guys prepping for the Tour rode in California anyway this past year (it was just only americans who put forth an effort). There's no big european race on the calendar at that point now that Catalunya moved to late march.

He's riding US races that don't conflict with european ones. How exactly is that hurting him?
I have been around. Unfortunatley in our US CULTURE WE GET A LITTLE PROVINCIAL. We miss the comfortable thing in our country,(actually which I disdain, like micky Ds, comfort food, Venice Beach, comfy roads in Colorado, you know the typical American white bread culture.)
So to be a top rider in Europe, like Gilbert, Evans Cantador, ya gotta live the culture.
Nothing bad about Tjs riding. It is the American culture which hurts him.
 
Feb 15, 2011
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The Plediadian said:
I have been around. Unfortunatley in our US CULTURE WE GET A LITTLE PROVINCIAL. We miss the comfortable thing in our country,(actually which I disdain, like micky Ds, comfort food, Venice Beach, comfy roads in Colorado, you know the typical American white bread culture.)
So to be a top rider in Europe, like Gilbert, Evans Cantador, ya gotta live the culture.
Nothing bad about Tjs riding. It is the American culture which hurts him.
Hmm the culture argument is interesting. I think the majority of successful American endurance athletes do train/live elsewhere. I wonder how big of a difference it could make? Perhaps the biggest benefit is simply having someone to train with you everyday.
 
Jan 13, 2012
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gustienordic said:
Hmm the culture argument is interesting. I think the majority of successful American endurance athletes do train/live elsewhere. I wonder how big of a difference it could make? Perhaps the biggest benefit is simply having someone to train with you everyday.
If you ride the roads of Europe, eat food from different venues, deal with difficult weather and foreign languages and conditions, I think that you will adapt to the everyday conditions, as a pro cyclist(hopefully.)

Without naming names, early on Americans had a hard time "cutting it" in the European culture, particularly in Belgium and Italy.

Individuals like Greg LeMond were helped by riders like Boyer, and obviously Farrar was helped by his dear departed pro cyclist friend in Belgium.
To achieve in such a tough sport, one needs a family like foundation as a base in Europe.
 

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